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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Under huge pressure from MM - please help :(

150 replies

shameshame · 02/09/2013 19:46

Thank you for everyone who has helped on my past threads where I outlined my affair with a MM. Please accept my sincerest apologies to the many DW on here that this thread may cause upset - i am sorry in advance. I honestly have nowhere to turn.

Thanks to the great advice I received on here I managed to go 2 months NC from MM, after a near mental breakdown and moving and jobs and cities far away from family and friends in a bid to restart my life.

MM has recently contacted me saying he can't live without me (and all that jazz). I stupidly met up, he broke down and said he needs me in his life, is willing to give DW full disclosure and start again with me. Seems genuine and I still love MM (STUPID I KNOW).

I'm thrown back into turmoil now - he wants to do it before Wednesday as he is due on a family holiday with his DW and young DC and can't go through the pretence.

I feel so much pressure on my shoulders. I don't want to split up a family (I know I should have thought of that before) but he says the damage is done. Just as I was getting back on track.

Please help if you can find it in yourselves. i know plenty of OW with have said this before but I'm not a bad person and devastated at what i've become.

OP posts:
SarahBumBarer · 04/09/2013 12:57

Hissy - I genuinely don't think that is true. I think my ex and his wife are far more compatable than we ever were and he is now much slightly more mature than he was (we met at 18). I don't have much time for either of them (don't wish them well don't wish them ill - all of my energies are focussed on my new family) but don't agree that there is any greater risk of cheating or that they will never be happy or that she does not trust him. My dad OTOH has been a cheater all his life and always will be (well - but for the medication he is currently on combined with not aging well). Not all men are the same and not all affairs are the same.

SarahBumBarer · 04/09/2013 12:58

Although I do agree that they all have the same bloody "script".

Wellwobbly · 04/09/2013 12:58

"If you're shagging another woman's H.. that is pretty deeply fucking stupid."

This point really can't be got round or avoided JCB. Sorry.

Cheating is a narcissistic act. That can't be got round or avoided either. Do you know narcissistic means?

This things involve CHOICE. The choice to deceive to maintain a position of advantage whilst PRETENDING to be monogamous. The choice to plan, meet, take your clothes off. The CHOICE to put Flattery. Attention. Easy sex. Admiration without accomplishment. Shallow attachment. Infatuation. Fantasy. Centrality, above what a real relationship involves, which is reciprocation and respect, two pretty unselfish urges.
Cheating involves CHOOSING to ignore the fact that he is married. Making up stupid stories of overwhelming love (which magically seem to vanish as soon as the married person is caught), like this OW is. All sorts of justifications and rationalisations that OWs indulge themselves in.

I am all for free love. Open marriages. All the rest of it. Just don't lie to the other person.
You really don't get it, do you? The POINT is the cheating, not the OW. That is why I consider them fucking stupid. If it wasn't her, it would be someone else.

Bogeyface · 04/09/2013 13:08

You owe yourself and your relationship the chance to be something better than just a tree branch that this monkey is grabbing on to in order to leave the last branch behind.

This pretty much sums it up for me, but I rather suspect that her "relationship" with this man is just a branch.

Dam58 · 04/09/2013 13:16

I think you should tell him to tell her and then accept him into your life.

This is what you both wanted right?

He's correct the damage is done to his marriage now.

His wife and child deserve someone in their life who respects and treats them well. He is not that person, the longer the wife stays with him the more it costs her....unknowingly currently.

Put the woman out of her misery, tell her the truth and then you can live happily ever after with your great catch.

I give you 6 months tops.

TakeItAsRed · 04/09/2013 13:22

I am not saying I approve. I don't.
However.....
the moral approach is to tell the MM that if he wants to end his marriage then that is his choice. That he should sort himself out and get a divorce, if he wants one, but that he needs to deal with his own mess before he commits to you.

If he truly wants the rest of his life to be with you, then he would go through hell to make it happen. Including living in a bedsit with no woman on hand,and no money.
Whether or not he can move in with you is neither here nor there, in the decision process to end his marriage.

When he is free, because he has chosen to be, then is the time to consider becoming a couple.

misreadings · 04/09/2013 14:14

You know, I have a friend who met somebody through work. They got on brilliantly but he was married; she thought nothing really of it.

They were working together on a tv production and a few months after the production ended, he got in contact with her to tell her that he was crazy about her and had been since they met. But he had realised that he needed to sort things out at home before even contacting my friend to tell her his feelings. So he had done that, and ended his marriage. Only then did he contact my friend and tell her of his feelings.

Fast forward several years and they are happily married.

You can have a happy ending, and not all marriages are meant to be and should last forever. But there are dignified ways of handling it all - and his way isn't one of them.

If you love him and want there to be any chance that your own relationship with him could succeed, tell him you want nothing to do with him until such a time as he has ended his marriage and with no expectation that anything will develop with you afterwards. If he is unable to do that, then I think you have your answer that what you are dealing with is a weak man who is addicted to a dysfunctional way of running his personal relationships.

Chyochan · 04/09/2013 14:28

A word of warning, I know of a guy who dumped the long term partner for someone new, even got married to her, a year later he was off again, someone newer. In the divorce settle ment he took half the OWs house that she has worked all her life for so you may think you are winning over wifey but bets are he will fuck you over even worse.

BeCool · 04/09/2013 14:41

OP - all I am hearing from you is HE WANTS! HE WANTS! HE WANTS!

What about what YOU want?? FFS why are you prioritising this disaster of a man over yourself?

Do what you want!!

If you really want to have a relationship with this piece of poo, then go for it. Hold you head up high, put all your shame aside, take him in if after he leaves his family, and live "happily ever after" (better get some keyboard logging software etc lined up - how long do you think it will be before he finds a replacement mistress?). His wife will be well shot of him and I suspect you know you would be going into a disastrous future with him. At least your eyes will be wide open. And it's what you want.

Or perhaps you will realise it is ridiculous to listen to him whine on and on about what HE WANTS, and focus on what you want. A relationship with someone who isn't cheating on his family and spinning you whatever story he thinks will work.

In that case kick him to the curb, go NC, change your number and get your life seriously back on track.

MorphyBrown · 04/09/2013 14:47

I agree with those who've said that if he wanted to be with you he wouldn't have waited 2 months then turned up with promises of jam tomorrow. If he wanted to leave his wife he could have told her. He could have moved out of the marital home. Instead he's chased after you with nothing more than promises to offer you.

If you really want to be with him and think he's worth all the hassle, when you've just uprooted your life to get away from him, why not ask him to come back to you when he's separated and out of the house and free to be in a relationship.

Pawprint · 04/09/2013 14:58

Well, when a man marries his mistress he creates a vacancy. Might be an old cliche but he obviously is capable of immense deceit.

Walk away. His marriage is obviously over, despite his poor wife and children being unaware of his betrayal, but do you really think you can ever trust this man?

BeCool · 04/09/2013 15:03

"If you really want to be with him and think he's worth all the hassle, when you've just uprooted your life to get away from him, why not ask him to come back to you when he's separated and out of the house and free to be in a relationship."

^^ this - AND if he really loves you and wants to be with you, surely he would listen to you and respect your wishes???

Alternatively, the reason he comes to you with these sob stories and promises for the future is he wants a shag. And it works.

DottyboutDots · 04/09/2013 15:22

I would say to him, "Call me 6 months after your separation and not before."

Phalenopsis · 04/09/2013 15:48

OP the first thing you need to do is stop beating yourself up over this because although I and many others believe that your behaviour is wrong, by castigating yourself you are only grinding your self-esteem further into the dust. In fact, I think this is partly why this affair is ongoing - you don't have much confidence and self-belief because if you did, you'd have told him to fuck off when you first found out he was married.

Secondly, you need to stop contacting him or allowing him to contact you. Whatever it takes, you need to stop hurting yourself and his wife and kids further.

Thirdly, I'd head for a counsellor to find out why you seem incapable of rejecting this eejit. He is using you for sex and as some sort of emotional crutch. Do you like being used? I'll bet you don't.

Willpower is needed here and if your life is lacking in companionship then you need to put other things in place like hobbies, pets, friends, family etc. to prevent you falling for arseholes like this one in the future.

JaceyBee · 04/09/2013 15:52

Wobbly, I'm sorry and I don't mean to be disrespectful but you're wrong that 'the point is the cheating not the OW' is the case in EVERY affair that anyone ever has had or will have. It may well have been the case in yours. But you cannot judge every affair situation by your own experiences, it's blinkered.

I understand perfectly well what you're saying. 100%. I just don't agree with you. Have you not read all the other posts on here saying their dad/friend/ex whoever cheated and is now very happy and settled with the new partner?

And yes I know what narcissistic means, I am a therapist!! Smile

lunar1 · 04/09/2013 16:05

Grow up op, you are responsible for your own actions. You met up with him because you wanted to. Do the decent thing.

Oh and get a sti check, if you've got something nasty you will have to make sure his wife knows (unless of course his line is that they haven't had sex in years).

Wellwobbly · 04/09/2013 16:10

JCB, IF it is the OW, then why doesn't he drop everything and go to be with her?

Because, he has safe solid home life AND OW. And he gets that through deceit. If you read the threads, what is the most hurtful thing? The lies and the secrets.

THAT is the point of cheating. Whatever the 'reason' (guilt, feeling sorry for the spouse, whether he is using OW or whether it is true love etc etc etc) he stays and gets both.

Pathologising me won't take this point away, JCB.

JaceyBee · 04/09/2013 16:32

I don't understand how I'm pathologising you? I'm only disagreeing, that's all.

Fairenuff · 04/09/2013 17:02

OP did he go on holiday or did he leave her?

Wellwobbly · 04/09/2013 22:15

JCB I seriously hope you are not as relativistic and enabling to your clients. That makes for a shit therapist. Therapy that is not 'containing' is a waste of £££ in my view and giving an addict (in this case the OW) sympathy can very easily be misperceived as approval.

Infidelity is abuse. It is a terrible way of 'solving' problems. It is a misguided coping skill.

Why aren't you in your empathy talking about the wife, and how her life might be right now? Do you honestly think that she does not know that something is terribly wrong? That the children haven't picked up on the atmosphere?

Here are the view of another therapist:

The act of infidelity itself is not emotional abuse ? it?s the behavior that comes with an affair to keep from being found, out or taking responsibility for ones actions. The abusive tactics known as Blameshifting and gaslighting are definitely part of abuse patterns in all types of abuse. Therapists suggest that marriages can become better when these patterns are recognized and corrected. Just because we can correct a behavior, does not make the fact that it happened less abusive. A healthy intimate relationship is one where both partners are open, truthful, vulnerable, empathetic, have an equal balance of power, and are able to talk problems out and come to a compromise. A partner in an affair is displaying behaviors that are the complete opposite of what constitutes a healthy relationship. To preserve their sense of being a good person, they justify their abusive behaviors by shifting the responsibility for their decisions onto their partner and claim the betrayed is to blame. If a betrayed spouse were this powerful (to have any control over pushing a cheater into an affair) it would also be true that they had the power to stop it. We all know that only we control our actions, no one else has the power to make us do anything. Yes, our actions affect other people, but it is the selfish, egocentric cheater that only sees how his/her spouses behavior effects him/her, and not how their behavior affects their spouse. A mark of true maturity in a relationship is to see how our actions may affect others, take their view into consideration and give them the option of taking part in any decision that may affect the outcome of their lives.
For example: If one were in a business relationship where money was on the line, one party would never just assume they had the right to decide for the other business what direction they will take the other business owner. Why? Because it is understood that there is a certain amount of respect, not to mention legal consequences, damage to that businesses reputation, and an understood agreement that the relationship is mutually beneficial. We have all of these understood rules for platonic relationships, yet in the most important relationships in our lives (the intimate ones), we assume that we can operate at a standard below that of platonic relationships. The grass you water grows, that?s why people in an affair think the grass is greener on the other side. Because they are watering the affair grass, while a drought destroys the grass in the primary relationship.
We can all make excuses for our behavior, attributing it to something someone else did to us, but the bottom line is it all comes down to choosing to dull our own pain over that of causing someone else pain. Affairs do not make problems go away, they make problems bigger and hurt other people in the process. Affairs are abusive and inflict a betrayal wound, often resulting in PTSD for a betrayed spouse ? the results of which they will carry for the rest of their lives, having the domino effect onto the lives of their children, passing down the seeds of mistrust and betrayal. Someone who can read all of the facts about betrayal, all the pain it causes and still justify their actions needs to take a serious look at the dysfunction in themselves. Those who are willing to commit such acts knowing the consequences often have an axis II personality disorder.
People thinking of cheating and/or believes cheating is not wrong. This is justification. If you?re married, in a relationship, or in the future will be, let your significant other know that you see nothing wrong with hurting another person for your own gain, so they can make a decision for their own lives, and wether they?d like to take that gamble. Integrity can not be faked or forced, it?s a voice within that we choose to listen to or not.

Leavenheath · 05/09/2013 00:10

No update from our missing OP then?

Wellwobbly, haven't you worked out yet why this thread is getting some er...odd responses about wives not being innocent and new relationships working out all fine and dandy? Wink

Like I said in my previous post, threads like this attract all sorts of projections.

You are by no means alone in applying your own life experiences to your responses.

BOF · 05/09/2013 00:20

JaceyBee doesn't sound like a shit therapist to me. There are quite a few different kinds of affair, with different motivations. Most may indeed fall into one script, but I think that not all do. Understanding the type of affair it is is crucial.

Bogeyface · 05/09/2013 01:41

I agree that there are different types of affair, but whichever it is points to a flaw in a persons character that would make me avoid them. Cowardice, neediness, arrogance, narcissism....take your pick.

I personally think that this is his attempt at an exit affair. He will use the OP to soften the blow of the end of his marriage (and quite possibly use her home in order to soften the financial blow), but he wont stick around. He will stay with the OP just long enough to find someone else, because this is a man that cannot live on his own. I would put money on him going from mum to wife to OP to........

GrandstandingBlueTit · 05/09/2013 03:33

It's interesting/revealing that you don't want to ask the repeated question as to why this orangutan refuses to let go of one branch before he has a very firm grip of the next...

Why don't you want to ask that of him? What are you scared of?

If he really loves you, and if his marriage is really over, then surely he should leave his wife and family, and then come and talk to you.

Instead of, rather pathetically, seeing if you're a likely goer before he irrevocably cuts his losses with his wife.

When a man tells you who he is, believe him.

Vivacia · 05/09/2013 07:02

What's with the virtual slaps? I be read one poster tell the OP she deserves a slap and another tell her that a slap would be for her own good. WTF?

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