Does you DP work really long hours? How do you do it?

[TreeMonkey]

I fear this will make me sound like a spoilt princess but here goes:

My DP works for a private equity firm in their finance department. I joke that he's always having to save the financial world whenever he has to work late (which is a lot).

We're about to move into together, buy a new place in the spring and have spoken about children in the past. But part of me is really questioning whether this would work or whether our potential children will actually get to see him.

I don't have a great relationship with my dad partly because he was always at work. I wouldn't want this for my children but the way things are now he doesn't finish work until 8:30pm (should be 9-5:30) isn't home till 9:30 and by that point, any potential children would be in bed and most of our evening is gone too.

The spoilt princess bit is that its my 30th this Sunday. I've planned to go to a bar on Saturday night and was hoping that DP and I could have a nice lunch on Sunday together. Romantic and low-key just the two of us. He's now text me to say "Sorry, I have to work both days this weekend :o( " I'm pissed off. The world isn't going to end if he doesn't work over the weekend. I'm really hoping its a fucking joke.

Can I just say - probably heretically and I'll be thrown off MN - that actually I don't work to 'provide for my family', I do the job I do because I like it and find it fulfilling. I think most people in that kind of high-pressured job do it because that's the kind of work they want to do. I think saying 'he's working like that to provide for you all' is a bit of a red herring.

My partner earns rather more than I do, but that happens to be because he has (finally) been well-paid for a rewarding, interesting job he rather loves.

(It may help that we are both the kind of bigoted lefties who don't want private school, obviously.)

For me it's a horrible wrench when something like that happens - on any individual event I'd far rather be at home/with family etc.

However if you're working like that it's not so much that you wouldn't think about it, it's that you've bought into the job and career path you've got and what it means now and tomorrow for you and your family.

It's an artificial comparison but you could be saying - on balance being able to provide x, y, z is more important in the long term scheme of things than being there for a specific event.

(Personally - I'd always try to make it up somehow in respect of the specific event.)

As ever one's biases are based on one's experiences - my father was extremely hard working but he provided the "x,y,z" and I've got an incredibly strong relationship with him because when he was there he was fantastic as opposed to say my partner who's father was always there and who was a complete nightmare to her all the time. So when I am at home I try incredibly hard to be the best husband and father I can be (probably fail !).

You need to work out a modus vivendi. So for example I could spend an hour a day on holiday working, but I'd do it whilst she's at the gym, or you'd work v late on xyz days, but commit to keeping a particular time clear (easier as you climb the mountain - rolls downhill...)

"whose"

damned typoes

Hi - agree with PrivateEquityChap - as I said, I think it's about agreeing why you're doing it and how you're going to manage and negotiate. If you have those things understood and agreed at the start, it's a whole load easier!

We've had a pretty good time of it with my work, though I have gone through some crazy hours, relocated us twice with my job, but I honestly don't think either me or my partner would have it any other way. However if we hadn't kept talking and agreeing to things throughout, the picture might be very different.

Hooya just read your first post. And I think you have summed up the way this could work perfectly. You are driven by the job you do, but equally important to you is your DP and his feelings. If it wasn't working for him you would reappraise the situation.

I wonder whether this would be the case for a lot (most?) men though. Would they see their partners and families as important as maintaining their excellent job and financial income? Or would they just ignore their 'nagging' unhappy wife and shrug it off as something they can do nothing about.

Maybe the difference is whether the man (or woman) concerned is simply a workaholic and their job and career will just always come first. Or the person concerned is good at their job and interested in reaching the highest level they possibly can whilst at the same time being in love with their partner and a committed family man (woman).

I know a lot of couples, where one parent works in a demanding job.

Where it works, it seems to work very well indeed. I don't hear constant bitching and moaning from the other parent. I thinking having enough money to outsource a lot of domestic drugery helps.

He works in transactions - and I am afraid that this is the deal in transactions work. It is nightmarish and all-consuming. He genuinely will have had no choice about working the weekend.

I am assuming your DP is an accountant - he could move out of PE work into management accounting where it is less stressful and pressurised. But unless he is able to do so - it's a step down in terms of prestige and probably also money - you will have to put up with the deal.

It's a bit unfair IME to pile more stress on the poor bloke. PE work is highly pressurised, really highly pressurised. He will be feeling guilty and upset as well as dealing with all the work stuff. And believe me, he genuinely will not have a choice in this (part of the reason I don't do transaction work - it's an utter nightmare).

I would also say - that you have to do the grind of 80 hour weeks in your twenties and early thirties. But once you get to be more senior (and I am guessing by your estimate of his salary that he is not that senior atm) the hours calm down a lot. My forties have been a breeze workwise

WF, yes, where there is enough money.

When my partner's discussed applying for jobs that would be more round-the-clock it's always been in terms of the extra money going into outsourcing the domestic stuff, paying for more babysitting, and so on. What wouldn't work well, for me, is being landed with all that while he ascends some kind of glorious career ladder on his own.

Bowlersarm I think you may be right in the sense that often relationships are not expected as much to be partnerships. For me it's because this stuff isn't discussed upfront and the idea of the 'nagging' wife comes in; and because probably too many women assume a more passive role than perhaps they should from the start.

If my partner doesn't think I'm spending enough time with him, we need to talk about it, know why I'm so busy, whether I'm happy and whether it is for some meaningful gain. It does mean compromise but at least it's a negotiated compromise, not as you say just an assumption that that's just the way it goes.

Yes, agree with WF and - it works for us, and it works very well. I am fairly independent, have good friends and family around me. I recognise that when he has to work, he has to work. I try not to be the nagging wife - I just get on with things.

But I think it works because when dh is here, he is wonderful, very involved with me and the dc, very loving. He has a great relationship with the dc. The only thing he does away from us - apart from the odd beer after work - is the odd game of golf, and even that he now takes the children with him, and is giving them lessons.

He, on the other hand, leaves all family matters in my hands - he is happy because he knows I am dealing with the domestic front, as it were. We completely share the money, I have total access and control over it - and we are careful with money - planning for ours and the children's future. Financial security can make life very comfortable. We have nice holidays - but he does have to checks his e-mails daily, and may be called on to do something for work while on holiday. But that doesn't bother me.

He recognises that he wouldn't be able to have a family, and be where he is today without my input - which is nice.

Can I just say - probably heretically and I'll be thrown off MN - that actually I don't work to 'provide for my family', I do the job I do because I like it and find it fulfilling. (from motherinferior above)

OP I feel like in a way you are making this more complicated than it has to be.

Your father worked long hours and you never saw him.

You don't want your children to have this experience.

You are now with a man who works long hours.

So logically, unless you can be certain that he will cut back his hours when you have DC, there is no point continuing down this path with him. If you do stay with him, then it will be at the cost of one of your most important priorities, ie not giving your children the life that you yourself hated.

You read all sorts of tips about how to make it work, all the financial advantages, etc. But unless you are really emotionally prepared to take on the same role as your mother (e.g., explaining to your children for the umpteenth time why dad is not there for them) then none of that matters.

Your DP is not the only man in the sea. Maybe he's lovely but that's not enough. Why would you sacrifice such an important priority for this one guy? Someone else is out there who won't ask that sacrifice.

Already you have the line of thinking of 'he's missing my birthday but I guess I'm just a spoilt princess and anyway I'll get a nice present out of it.' Is this the future you want?

I know a number of couples with DC where he works mega hours and earns loads and she is sahm or works very part time, and does all child care (normally have cleaner). From the outside seems to work OK but not something I could manage as I wouldn't want to be financially dependent (in case of illness, divorce) want to work more and had a father who was at home a lot.

It's one thing pre-DC, when the times he's working you can do stuff you enjoy or pursue your own career, but after Dc this is pretty much impossible as you will be providing all the child care and running a household, unless you have a lot of family help or want and can afford the "xenia model" of both working hard and a nanny.

I wouldn't move in with him or consider DC if I were you, unless you're sure you want "the deal" he's offering.

'the "xenia model" of both working hard and a nanny.'

Actually I think xenia's XH was a teacher or something? I get the impression it wasn't two lots of City hours; I don't see how that would work even with a nanny, can you get nannies that do 100-hour weeks?

Errr....I didn't mean that post to imply that teachers don't work hard!

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep - I don't know about Xenia's husband (I find it quite strange that anyone would be able to remember the occupation of a stranger's husband! MN is a funny old place...) but yes, you can get nannies to do full time live in 'in loco parentis' roles. They'll even go to parents evening and arrange birthday parties etc. I see such nannies about...

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep If you need 100 hours of childcare you need two nannies. Our neighbour looks after the children now and I won't let her work more than 50hrs a week - I try to keep it 7.15am-5pm and a half day on Friday. She gets about 10 wks off on full pay. If we need additional hours I call in someone else from list of helpers.

My dh works very long hours, travels for work, works weekends, Christmas, NY- you name it, he's busy, plus the phone- the times I wanted to throw it out of the window! The day my dd came home from hospital, I had had a cs and couldn't really walk - his boss came round with flowers and also expected dh back full time the next day. Er, no!

However, he is great when not at work, cooks, cleans, takes care of the dc.He doesn't have hobbies anymore, or free time to himself. I stopped work because of the dc, and I didn't want them raised by strangers, and we could afford it. I would rather be married to him than a work shy layabout who is always at home and expects me to work round the dc.

You can only second guess what will happen and what you will be happy with. If he is at the start of his career, he needs to work to progress. You just have to ensure he is the type who recognises a sahm is just as important and everything is in your name too.

Move in with him, but ask if he plans to get married/ have dc with you in a specific time frame- as otherwise you are playing house with him and should be out there finding someone else. And if he doesn't make a fuss of you on your birthday or after to make up for it, I suggest you are setting yourself up for a lifetime of disappointments. Sorry.

Everyone saying that he has a 'choice' about this - yes he does: either he quits the job or he carries on working long hours. People in these jobs don't have the choice not to work. They are being paid to sacrifice this element of choice and will not be in the job long if they don't. If you want him to work shorter hours then you are going to have to ask him to get another (possibly lower paid) job.

Sorry. I know it's shit but this coming from someone who is in one of these types of jobs.

I agree with xiaozhu. I left work once at 10 pm on a Saturday evening as a junior when i was already three hours late for an event that was v important to me. This was raised at my appraisal as showing lack of commitment. Didn't lose my job but it did affect how I was perceived. If success in PE is what is important to him missing birthdays etc occasionally goes with the territory. However I agree with others that he should be v apologetic and treat you to make up for it!

He does have a choice. You both do.

I'm going to be very blunt here. I have worked in this environment for nearly 20 years and I can count on one hand the number of men who do those kind of hours for years on end who don't have an affair at some point. I'm not talking about physical affairs always but the perception of 'wifey' at home, doing the domestic chores and being dull as fuck, is all pervasive in this working environment so, even if it's not physical, a lot of them have emotional affairs. It totally ties in with what PEChap said - it's a very testosterone driven, macho environment. Any man who has to leave a meeting/corporate event because their wife has insisted is ridiculed - quite subtly a lot of the time but, especially if you're really junior (which your DP must be on that salary), it marks you out as not committed. And as the last 2 posters have said, it affects your career progression.

chickydoo's post is pretty much par for the course but I'd hate to live like that and I suspect you would too.

If you don't want your children to be raised in a house where their dad's a distant figure working every hour possible, I suspect you need to find someone else to make babies with.

My dh works 70 hour weeks for about 6 months of the year. It took me a long time to get used to it (it didn't bother me pre kids) and as a result once we had DC1, I didn't want to even think about another one. 10 years on I am used to it - he is not here from beg. May til end Oct and that's the way it is - we all accept it and spend the summer more or less dad-less. In fairness he will spend from 8pm til ten doing outdoor things with the kids during the height of the summer - if he can - when it's still bright out.
That's the answer to your title, however I would be seriously miffed if DH was not able to make it for my significant birthday (with plenty of warning) He had two days off (1 for the actual birth & 1 to bring us home) for each of our DC and that's just the way it is. Occasionally something unexpected crops up (eg unreliable employee) and it can disrupt a holiday/special occasion but they are rare. It took me a long time to realise he was doing his best and more than that I cannot ask for.

If the long hours are pissing you off now, you have no idea how much it will hurt you when you have children, unless you are a very self sufficient person and love spending your whole long days with babies. I would take a poorer life with a man working sociable hours over a richer one with a man absent during the week.