Does you DP work really long hours? How do you do it?

[TreeMonkey]

I fear this will make me sound like a spoilt princess but here goes:

My DP works for a private equity firm in their finance department. I joke that he's always having to save the financial world whenever he has to work late (which is a lot).

We're about to move into together, buy a new place in the spring and have spoken about children in the past. But part of me is really questioning whether this would work or whether our potential children will actually get to see him.

I don't have a great relationship with my dad partly because he was always at work. I wouldn't want this for my children but the way things are now he doesn't finish work until 8:30pm (should be 9-5:30) isn't home till 9:30 and by that point, any potential children would be in bed and most of our evening is gone too.

The spoilt princess bit is that its my 30th this Sunday. I've planned to go to a bar on Saturday night and was hoping that DP and I could have a nice lunch on Sunday together. Romantic and low-key just the two of us. He's now text me to say "Sorry, I have to work both days this weekend :o( " I'm pissed off. The world isn't going to end if he doesn't work over the weekend. I'm really hoping its a fucking joke.

[biryani]

My DP has 3 jobs at the moment. He's very driven and works around 60 plus hours a week, depending on what needs doing. He always prioritises his work, and I kind of understand it, because I was exactly the same before kids.

He's a great dad, though, when he's around.

[onefewernow]

Don't marry a workaholic, really.

Been there, done that, and it is a very sad and lonely existence, and a nightmare if you have a job too and kids, which I did.

I think you need a straight talk with him now about what he thinks he can offer in future. Even if he compromises, judge him on his actions, not words.

[wordfactory]

MI you're right.

If you work long hours you really need to focus on your family when you are there. DH is very good at this. He's quite single minded in many ways (probably why he's good at his job).

Me, I like ti be around more, but not necessarily doing much . I'd be very bored playing the hours of footie and cricket that he does. And now he's bought a bloody bike so they can all cycle together every weekend! Bloody good luck to 'em, I say.

[Wibblypiglikesbananas]

Ok. I'm still not getting this! The OP said her partner earns half of the £100K estimate. So that's £50K/year. That is not top dollar. Yes, you'd expect to work long and hard for your pay in certain professions - but £50K is not a high salary for someone in finance. At all.

[Vakant]

50k sounds about right if he's fairly junior, presumably he's putting in the time and effort now in order to climb the ladder to the bigger salary.

My husband is generally out of the house 8-7 so not too bad, but if they has a big project on then he will work late or do some work from home. He isn't in the mega bucks league as yet, but that's the aim, and we will hopefully have a fairly nice lifestyle as a result. That's the pay off for working long hours.

[Purplemonster]

See as a self employed business owner my OH works 8/9am - 8/9pm usually five and a half or 6 days a week then has to do banking, invoicing, vat return, marketing, training etc at home outside of those hours with no sick leave, no holiday, no paternity leave, no pension...and all for about 25k or less a year. I wonder if I would mind his absence less if he was earning more? I'm not sure it would make a difference but it's an interesting thought.

[Wibblypiglikesbananas]

That is an interesting thought Purple - though working for yourself is a huge plus at times - not having to dance to everyone else's tune and all that.

Sorry Vacant - I know graduate schemes that pay £45K+ - so unless he's super young and super keen, I don't understand why the salary is so low (relatively speaking obviously, pretty high by UK standards in general). Huge bonus package? Commission structure maybe?

[skyeskyeskye]

My XH always put work first. Since he left last year, he sees DD every other weekend. That is all he sees of her. He refuses to have her in the holidays as work is more important. He is a courier......... So nothing earth shatteringly important, but more important than DD obviously.

It's something that you need to discuss. Some people never change and family is bottom of their list and having kids doesn't change that

[Jammee]

Perhaps the salary referred to by OP is excluding bonus. The bonus can often be far more than the salary in finance.

[Twinklestein]

Just seen the 50k (sorry it's very difficult to read this on my BB) that's peanuts, doesn't justify those kinds of hours at all. Indeed, I think it unlikely that they're required at that level.

That's only just over basic graduate starting salary.

[theboutiquemummy]

It's tough for sure my DH works the worst hours think 140 + however when DS1 arrived he changed and started taking his days off took 3 weeks paternity leave and started taking all the lieu days he's owed
( the company he works for have been brilliant because he's paid it forward so to speak)

So there is hope but you have to be independent and organised give him dates that are non negotiable then you are well within your rights to give him merry hell if he wants to cancel one of them

[Want2bSupermum]

At that salary it sounds like he is just starting out. If not he isn't being honest with you. I worked in that circle and the juniors or PA's were making that not including bonus.

Hate to break it to you but I think he might want to split up with but doesn't have the balls to do it with your big birthday approaching. Deals are tough but if he has been there more than 2 years he is not telling the truth about his income. If he is he isn't the smart and needs to ask for a raise pronto.

If you do stay with this guy make sure you get married before having children. It is incredibly difficult being married to a workaholic and it is more common for the relationship to breakdown. Marriage will legally protect you.

[TreeMonkey]

Thanks for the responses. Have skimmed through and will read them all properly later.

I'm with a friend drinking wine and discussing/moaning at the mo.

[DorothyBastard]

Just to add my story. My DP is a head chef (works at his ex-P's restaurant but that's a whooole other story...!), so he works quite long hours. He leaves around 8.30/9am and is home after 10pm.

I'm a SAHM to our 6mo. He makes the most of every minute he gets to spend with us and makes it clear that we are his priority. He gets up with her before work and gets her ready for the day while I shower and dress. I wait up for him to get home from work so we have an hour together, then we tend to head up to bed at the same time. He does 50% of night wakings.

On his two days off he does everything apart from breastfeed her. It's my birthday next week (not a big one) and he's taking 5 days off so we can have a little cottage break.

Looking after DD all day on my own can be challenging but I don't feel 'alone'. I feel hugely supported and respected. If my DP worked these same hours but had a different attitude it would be awful. But I feel like we're on the same team, both working hard for our future.

If you can't see your DP making you feel like this, you might want to think long and hard about having children with him. Shared outlook is so so important.

[HorryIsUpduffed]

DH typically works a 70+ hour week, including 2+ hours per day during our recent holiday

He generally comes home at 6ish and finishes working after the DC have gone up to bed. Sometimes he works until or past midnight, or gets up at 5am. But he wants to be at home to see us.

Honestly, some days I feel like "accidentally" pouring a kettle of boiling water over his laptop. But it is what it is, and the promotions have followed.

He has recently put his foot down about a project demo being scheduled for the day after my EDD but I will have to get firm about his actually not working when the existing DC are awake during his paternity leave.

OP, it isn't the hours but the attitude. He hasn't said "no, have to work on Sunday - how about Friday or Sunday night instead?" - he just said no.

[Bowlersarm]

It's doesn't apply to me as my DH works from home (I have the opposite problem-we see way too much of each other ), but my observations from reading this thread and which applies to some of my friends are that:

1. if he has a lot of energy it may work. He will have the energy to get up early, work the long hours, commute etc successfully. Plus he'll have the energy to do night feeds with babies, be up early with them to give you a break, plus spend time playing with them at the weekend.
   
   
2. not prioritising your 30th birthday is a BAD THING. You are not important enough to him to consider your feelings and how special he should be making you free on a significant birthday. He needs to be able to spend time with you and take holidays etc, otherwise is there a point to being together at all?
   
   I've just realised you don't live together. That would be a good trial run to see if it might work?

[Jammee]

Dorothy you are so right!

My DH puts in so much effort with DH and is very supportive of me, despite his job. He often manages to get home by 6:30pm, even though he commutes from London because he will stay up late after I've gone to bed if he needs to make up the time.

He does every bath, he does nearly every nappy in the evenings and at weekends. DD has slept through the night since 8 weeks but before that she had a 4am feed and even though I breast feed he would get up, change her nappy and lie awake with me until she had fed. If she ever needs to go to the doctors he always offers to take the day off and come with me and he puts DD to bed every night.

OP, a top finance job in London doesn't mean your partner won't make a good dad. What will make him a bad dad is a bad attitude. Talk to him about what he wants; family or career, about what will be his priority; his child or his job. Women change a lot when they have children and so do men. I wouldn't rule a guy out as a bad dad based upon him working a lot now, because he may see it as putting the work in now so that he doesn't have to once you start a family.

Just speak to him; you have nothing to lose.

Re: the birthday; I'd expect a bloody big present in lieu of his company.

[TreeMonkey]

Yes Jamee based on his texts today I would be expecting a decent present too - and normally I'm not like that at all. I fear I may have turned bitter this afternoon!

So I know that DP makes between 50 and 60k a year. I think. I've never explicitly asked him but did steal a peek at a contract letter on his desk earlier this year which said as much. He's ACA qualified in 2009 if that helps.

I'm in a completely different industry with a maximum income of 40k (just under 35K at the moment). I hope that might put some of the responses into context.

I have a list of questions to ask him when he gets home, again based on these thread responses - although I fear I'll have to wait until Sunday evening until I can ask them as he's already said he's "sleeping over" tonight...

Tank you for your opinions and experiences. It is helping to see the situation in a clearer light and what may be expected of me/the relationship.

[lucidlady]

That seems a low salary for someone in PE who is ACA. Was it a recent contract?

I am married to a v senior workaholic in the Big 4. I knew he was like this when I married him - it's who he is, and yes it drives me bonkers at times but it's not something that will ever change. If you love him, and he's the man for you, then you need to accept who he is.

[Wibblypiglikesbananas]

Do you absolutely trust him? Are you sure he isn't having an affair?

[Hooya]

I really think two things are important here: firstly understanding his motivations and his enjoyment of his role, and secondly in negotiating upfront so you both know what to expect.

I work long hours (or did before I started mat leave on Friday!): 8am - 9pm a few days a week. DP has always understood my love of and commitment to my job and has always had a clear picture of what it brings us financially and what the potential future looks like if we want it.

Crucially I think, we have some fairly clear boundaries - for example:

1. Holidays - I always take a full 2 weeks at least once per year, maybe twice, and keep work contact to a couple of 5-min BlackBerry check-ins per day, but not meetings or time-consuming work
   
2. Special occasions - planned upfront and wouldn't miss the really important ones (birthdays, Xmas etc)
   
3. Weekends / early finishes - generally finish early (for me i.e. 7pm) once or twice a week and don't work both days at the weekend
   
4. Talking - if I'm starting to get stressed and this is filtering into our home lives, or if any of points 1-3 aren't happening, or if DP is not happy, we sit down over a nice meal (even if it is at 11pm) and discuss it properly and decide how we want to manage it. In particular, DP knows that he has to understand whether I'm enjoying the work or going crazy doing it, which makes a big difference. I also know that he has every right to say "there's not enough in this for me, we need a change" if necessary, and then we'll discuss more and make tough decisions.
   

I can't stress enough how important the communication and understanding motivation is. DP and I enjoy certain things (crazy holidays, shopping, spending money on our families and their holidays etc) and so we know what we're willing to do to earn that and what we're not willing to do. It sounds like you haven't really discussed or figured that out yet as a couple.

As a ps, having worked with a couple of PE firms back when I was a consultant, and assuming he is a similar age to you and started out of uni, his comp does seem a bit low though if he's on deals he could be drawing bonus. I'm not suggesting you ask him why he isn't earning more, but I would want to know what it's all for and where this takes you financially and otherwise as a couple. I have seen too many people slog their guts out when they don't even know what they are aiming for or what they are actually willing to compromise to get there!

Good luck!

[GrandstandingBlueTit]

Two things struck me reading your OP, neither of which I expect are particuarly helpful.

1. What a classic case of finding a replica of your father in your life-partner.
   

1. He's just not that onto you. :(
   

Maybe read this. I read it years ago, and it really stuck with me, even though I've never been involved with a workaholic, nor had a workaholic father. Regrets of the dying. No. 2 in particular...

[PrivateEquityChap]

Hello

First, and probably last, post ever on Mumsnet - as a chap and all.

I'm on the board of a PE house and Finance is one of my responsibilities. Back in the day I qualified at a Big 4 firm.

For what it's worth (from the man's point of view) -

• the long hours probably won't go away. Most PE firms are quite small and there's a reluctance to hire when that it's into the existing people's share of the pie - hire-ing will almost always follow the increase in work. But not too much hire-ing.
  
  
• particularly in finance, there may only be one person in the firm who knows what and how you do it, so if you're not there things just don't happen, but the reporting timetables remain unmoved.
  
  
• i leave home before 6 and on a good day i'm home at 8 (with the crackberry on 24/7, albeit i'm better at categorising emails as needing to be dealt with versus not, these days), and i'm at the top of the tree.
  
  
• PE Firms do have a (slightly) macho culture and hours can be a reflection of this. In my experience, transaction services departments at Big 4 firms draw the more "macho" of the auditors, and then the PE firms draw the more "macho" of those. the hours culture pervades even outside of the deal teams when pressured deadlines loom.
  
  
• the potential long term carrot is significant, but is only given to those who the firm really rate (and effort / hours does come into that; given the small pool ) - given that every £1m of long term incentive the Partners give to you is a straight transfer of £1m from them.
  
  
• personally i feel driven to try to provide the best possible future for my family - and whilst i entirely agree that financial success is definitely not the only measure it's an important one, for me at least. i am always struck by the number of friends in their 60s who are very bitter about relative financial position and how they are often the same ones who mocked those who have achieved that success for working long hours at the time. if private schools and the rest is important to you both, then PE is one way to try to acheive it, but hours are likely to come into it one way or the other.
  
  
• in the words of a senior PE person "we pay them enough, they can break their holiday to come back"
  
  
• the only quid pro quo is that i keep Friday afternoons clear of meetings and try to be home for bedtime for one day a week. and i try to avoid checking emails too much on holiday when family are around.
  
  
• culturally i cope quite well with it as my father had a similar role so it's what i expect. the challenge comes in my experience where that's not the case for one or both in a relationship.

[BoulevardOfBrokenSleep]

You both need to have a chat about what your long-term goals are, and you need to be prepared that you might not like what you hear...

DH did the long hours/high pay thing for a bit (lawyer) but he was always very clear (to me, not his employers ) that he wasn't prepared to be doing that with DC in the mix. He now works 9-5 in-house, and no weekends which is obv great for the family.

Wait a sec - did you say you're thinking about buying a house in the spring, but you don't know how much he earns?!

[Bowlersarm]

Interesting post PrivateEquityChap

One of the OP,s concerns in her original post was the disappointment of her DP not prioritising her 30th birthday which falls at the weekend. Would you say, from a male viewpoint, that he should prioritise important things like birthdays, wider family special events, and possibly holidays? Or is it feasible that a guy that works very long hours, would just simply not think about these things? Or does it purely depend of the individual himself?