new boyfriend constantly telling sexist jokes.. should I end it or am I over sensitive??!!

[misssounsure]

I've been seeing a lovely man for a few months and he is great in every way except one... he makes some sexist jokes. They are just jokes and initially I laughed as I didn't want to come across as having no sense of humour or being over sensitive! His father is also like it... cracking sexist jokes all the time and jokingly saying his wife cant do x, y, z etc because she is a woman... its constant joking sexism with his family.

The other day my boyfriend started telling me how he and a colleague told a female colleague they could tell she was on her period. He was laughing hysterically as he told me this and told me she got very embarrassed. I've been thinking this over and over and I dont think its acceptable. Q. is would this be enough to end the relationship for you? He is amazing in all other ways but for these stupid jokes and comments

His friends are also like it too!! Last month we went on a weekend away with his friend and his friend's wife. His friend CONSTANTLY leered at the air hostesses saying "phhwwoooor look at that" (this was a 3pm flight with families, kids about... not a night club environment!

My boyfriend is 33 years old by the way. Would you get rid now???? He is great in all other ways!!

That person doesn't exist. No two people are ever that compaitable.

You can't fundamentally change a person; however, when you're in a proper relationship, you want to be the best version of you that you can be. As a result, you end up modifying your behaviour. It might even be something as simple as giving up smoking. It's something that happens naturally - though some of us do need to have it spelled out.

I went through a stage of using bad language - because the people I worked with at the time did. I didn't see it as a problem (I wasn't aware I was doing it) and I'm sure for many that it would have been a deal-breaker. My wife (then girlfriend) said that she didn't appreciate the swearing and it made me sound like a c*nt she has a wonderful sense of irony I stopped swearing. It'd have gone unnoticed (by me) had she not raised it. My instinct says that this chap is the same. That he's easily led and that his view has been shaped (for better or worse) by association - rather than because he necessarily believes in it.

But bad language is a discrete behaviour. The constant use of bad language is just generally offensive. It does not have a target. Sexism does.

Do you recommend to your male friends that they should stick around and mould girlfriends who behave in obnoxious and socially embarrassing ways?

I'm a product of "our" society. We all are.

I laugh at all jokes. The one caveat being that they have to be funny. On the joke side of things I can sort of see where you're coming from with the whole "thin end of the wedge argument" but to me, it doesn't really stack up. I, nor any of the people I associate with (I beleive) would prejudice a woman purely on the basis of her gender; anymore than we'd go out committing violence and rape against women becasue we'd done it on a computer game - for the record, I don't play such games, but my friends do and I've not heard reports that they have spent their evening beating and raping prostitutes

You're right though, attitudes will change eventually. The reason I think they've been slow to, is becasue there are more shades of gret in this argument. We first need to recignise (as we did with racism) that there must be equality of opportunity for all. That's easier said than done - but we need to understand that the differences between men and women are greater and more complex than the difference between say black and white..

Some of the worst sexist is dressed as jokes - does not make it any less offensive! I think you need to have it out with your new boyfriend; better early in the relationship - don't be surprised if you get an 'oo er Missus!' at first - but persist. If it comes to it; you can make respectful talk a condition of your being together. I wouldn't be able to tolerate it.

I love DP's mates (male and female). I've got to know them and many have become great friends.

That's not ever going to happen with your boyfriend's mates though is it? Sounds like they see you as an object - as are all women to them.

Contrarian You make assumptions based on your relationship. I beg to differ with your assumptions. That person does exist for me.. I have lived with him for years, I am marrying him on the 23rd September and we are having a baby in January 2014. I have never even considered changing anything about him / his personality/behaviour nor has he tried to change me. Just because your wife had to make allowances / tolerate aspects of your personality and ask you to moderate the behaviours she wasn't comfortable with doesn't mean all women do or have to do the same. My DF and I will disagree and have an argument but it's never anything that is based on the fundamentals (morality / acceptable behaviours etc.). For me, what this guys has been doing would be classed as a deal breaker. I wouldn't waste my time trying to change/mould him. His not a child, he knows what is acceptable and not acceptable.

Yes. My best friend's (now) wife was an absolute nightmare when drunk. She ruined many a good night out. When not drinking, she was utterly reasonable. He was remarkably patient. She sought help and grew up a bit and they have since married and had a child. Their relationship seems o.k. (from what I know of it).

Nobody would have blamed him if he'd walked away (she'd offended just about everyone at that point) but his life (as it is now - and ours to an extent) would have been poorer for it.

I'm imagining my dd was that waitress and had some pervy letch make her kiss his cheek. Vile. They all sound awful.

It's so bizarre having this discussion about a wife that I was reading about only recently asking for a divorce because of constant sexual bullying by her supposedly non-sexist husband.

This is how sexism flourishes, because nobody thinks THEY are sexist. Even the really sexist ones.

I'm a feminist, and I frequently catch myself making sexist assumptions, so you can be pretty sure that if you are a man who thinks banal and simplistic things about gender politics that you are probably quite sexist.

This twonk is 33 years old, not some silly teenager who thinks it's cool to act like a dick with his friends.

"Mould him into something acceptable" ? Fuck that right off, it's not womens' responsibility to police mens' behaviour and stop them being sexist morons.

That's great. I'm pleased for you (I mean that honestly, not sarcastically).

We try to be be the best we can for our partners. That often means making allowances/changes (whether of our own volition or otherwise). You can't fundamentally chage a person, nor should you have to - however, on the basis that you and your partner would have had different upbrinings (as is perhaps what's happened with this guy - not having any sisters) there is some adaption required ni order to function as a couple. This is true of 99% of relationships.

If the OPs partenr generally isn't a nasty person (she hasn't given the sense that he is) then he behaves the way that he does because he doesn't know any better. That's not to excuse it, but it's better (for her) than the alternative.

you and your partner are very very lucky. For most of us, it doesn't happen like that.

I hope we've brought up DD to understand that it's not her job to mould a bloke into a decent human being.
My DH wasn't sexist at 17 when we got together, I didn't have to modify his behaviour, I can't imagine anything more depressing and soul destroying than having to treat an adult like a child and "teach" them what is and is not acceptable when it comes to how they view and treat women.

I'm not sensing much empathy here.

We're all agreed that sexism is wrong. THis chap has (by the sounds of it) been brought up in a sexist household. This has doubtless coloured his thinking. If he's o.k. in every other respect, why shouldn't he be given a chance? What happened to giving people the benefit of the doubt.

Some on here (not particularly this thread) carry on as if they're perfect. We've all got flaws.

The op has been given some good advice. I hope she considers it.

Contrarian, there is a subtle undercurrent of sexism that suggests that women should improve their men. That they can't do it without them. If you've ever read Cosmo, or heard a MIL having a chat with DIL about their DS / DH, you'll know what I mean.

It is not a woman's job to sort her boyfriend / partner / husband out.

I have plenty of empathy for the poster; less so for her partner. One day he may realise that he doesn't want to act in this way - but it's not the OP's job to get him to that realisation.

Benefit of the doubt? He's 33 FFS!

Contraian I am starting to think your are just having a giggle and trying to wind us up. I keep thinking surely his not serious!? Are you really serious? If you are I would be really interested in knowing your age if that's not too intrusive because you have some really out dated views on what women want, should accept and how relationships should work. In the old days maybe women were prepared to mother their partners and tolerate ridiculous/childish/inappropriate behaviour. We don't do that now. We want an equal, mature partner and we don't want to wont deal / put up with bull shit behaviour. Why try and mould someone when the person that suits your needs is out there anyway.

With regards empathy . Dear god! His an adult for god sake. His fully aware of his behaviour and what's wrong or right.. His an arse, he behaves like an arse and his friends all sound like arses.

When I imagine Contrarian IRL I see a woman who is having a good laugh being the gobshite who comes onto a woman's forum to show us all his "contrary" views and mansplain to us how we should be behaving.

And like the obedient little eejits we are, we are all trying to convince him that he's wrong.

Here we are arguing that women shouldn't waste their time improving men who are quite happy being sexist twats whilst we are doing our best to improve this guy by showing him the error of his sexist ways.

:o

Well played, Contrarian, well played.

It is only our being raised in a sexist society that would convince us to pay any attention to views as banal as those you have expressed on this thread.

When someone tells you who they are, believe them.

Good point Join :)

join

Oh no, you're on to me!

Seriously though, I think you're over-analysing this. Someone commented earlier that my belief that women should try and mould their men was evidence of sexism insofar as it suggested that it was a womans job. That's patently absurd.

We live in a sexist society. This guy is 'sexist' (I'm not of the belief that he's a full on sexist - I don't know many people who are). He needs to be told that his attitudes are wrong - just like people of our parent's generation (who I don't believe were full on racists) had to be told that some of their views/terms were wrong. When we over-analyse (not saying that the incident with the colleague was acceptable) we undermine the broader argument. As an example - somebody earlier on the thread made reference to "people of colour" that's an outdated and to some, offensive term. I didn't shout that person down as a racist. What I should have done is said "we don't really use that term anymore" but I didn't thik it would add to the debate.

Here in the real world not everyone is perfect. Men who have grown up in our society do need to be moulded. That's how change happens. It doesn't happen on its own, but rather by one person at a time changing their views/behaviour.

I know I sometimes seem like a troll, but my arguments, although contrarian (hence the name) are - I hope - always reasoned. The same cannot always be said of the counter-arguments. Some people are hard-wired to find offence or transgression where none was meant/exists.

So in conclusion: "Calm down Dear"

Interestingly, I have not seen evidence of anything other than reasoned argument here. They just don't agree with your position is all.

Your final comments come across as really quite arrogant. is that how they were meant? Wouldn't want to misread transgression where none was meant

Contrarian. I think your views are distorted by what has been going on in your own relationship.

For those interested I came across this thread by chance this morning. It all makes sense!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1831767-Gutted-Is-this-the-begining-of-the-End

No, I'm pretty sure it's reasoned. Not always right, but reasoned.

the final comment was, I suppose, meant to be ironic.

LPP: By chance? Honestly?

I stand by what I wrote there. I don't want to hijack someone elses thread. I've offered a contrary view (I don't always so this) in the hope that it might help.