new boyfriend constantly telling sexist jokes.. should I end it or am I over sensitive??!!

[misssounsure]

I've been seeing a lovely man for a few months and he is great in every way except one... he makes some sexist jokes. They are just jokes and initially I laughed as I didn't want to come across as having no sense of humour or being over sensitive! His father is also like it... cracking sexist jokes all the time and jokingly saying his wife cant do x, y, z etc because she is a woman... its constant joking sexism with his family.

The other day my boyfriend started telling me how he and a colleague told a female colleague they could tell she was on her period. He was laughing hysterically as he told me this and told me she got very embarrassed. I've been thinking this over and over and I dont think its acceptable. Q. is would this be enough to end the relationship for you? He is amazing in all other ways but for these stupid jokes and comments

His friends are also like it too!! Last month we went on a weekend away with his friend and his friend's wife. His friend CONSTANTLY leered at the air hostesses saying "phhwwoooor look at that" (this was a 3pm flight with families, kids about... not a night club environment!

My boyfriend is 33 years old by the way. Would you get rid now???? He is great in all other ways!!

With the OP, I'd suggest that this is a borderline case.

While 'my sexy burd can't reverse park hur hur' is perhaps borderline, and a type of attitude someone can be trained out of, what promoted the OP to post was her boyfriend boasting of the fact he ganged up on a female employee with another man and humiliated her by telling her they could sense she was menstruating and finding it hilarious she was upset.

And whilst we do 'draw our own lines' about such things, there are also some attitudes that are considered so wrong, those lines are actually drawn on our behalf by the court of law.

From what you say, he sounds like a ridiculous buffoon.

Look, we all do things that are "wrong" in some sense or another. ALL OF US. Some 'wrongs' we can tolerate, others we can't/shouldn't.

Interestingly enough, rarely would the behaviour described (the worst incident arguably being the one with the female colleague) wouldn't be sufficient to get you anything other than a stern talking to by HR or perhaps (worst case) a final warning. Other forms of abuse (for example racial) would most likely result in a finding of gross misconduct and you'd be down the road.

For better or worse, society (it seems) is prepared to tolerate some things and not others. For what it's worth, I think that (especially in the media) blokes get a worse time of it than women. We live in a society where sexism (from both sides) is tolerated/promoted.

"For what it's worth, I think that (especially in the media) blokes get a worse time of it than women."

:o

Yeah, men really get a hard time.

Hopefully all the power and money they have hoarded for themselves will be some tiny compensation for the evil women do to them.

Contrarian it seems you may be partially defending Op's partner because you recognise that you have/do behave in the same way when out of sight of your wife and polite society of course However bottom line is, there are a lot of women on this thread that have made it clear that to us as the females objectified / leered at / joked about what Op's partner/family/friends, maybe you and your friends say and do in this regard is unacceptable. We think it's appalling sexist behaviour. After all it is the female population that these comments are targeted at. Maybe you can revisit this and try to recognise that we are actually, truly offended by this type of behaviour. It may give you a bit of prospective!

I don't mind a bit of comedy/banter etc. but what Op has been describing goes beyond light banter making a female work colleague feel embarrassed by her menstrual cycle etc. Whether this guy can behave himself in front of Op or not is irrelevant. Op would still need to spend time with his family and friends who I am sure will carry on regardless of how she feels. God forbid she tells them she is unhappy/uncomfortable with their behaviour. They would probably accuse her of been an overly sensitive female that cant take a joke, ohhhhh bless her note condescending tone at the end. This behaviour is unacceptable and should not be tolerated.

FWIW: Whilst I don't subscribe to the Nick Griffin: "Islam is a wicked and vicious faith" school of thought, one thing that Islam - and by extension, many Muslim's- is/are guilty of, is the subjugation of women. Something (on many occasions) I've been very outspoken on. This is why my wife knows I'm not a sexist. I am really sorry Contrarian but this sounds a bit like the cliché saying I am not raciest because my friend is black or because I have friends that are black Very cringe worthy!

Op ultimately it's your choice but I would have jumped ship well before now making sure he was fully aware of my reasons for ending the relationship. Op if you didn't think this behaviour was all that bad you would never have asked for third party opinions in the first place.

I sort of agree with you. I have an opinion on the matter, but it's not one that I couldn't articulate sufficiently well so as to be certain you wouldn't track me down and do unspeakable things to me.

"Whether this guy can behave himself in front of Op or not is irrelevant."

Agreed. Totally irrelevant.

Who in their right mind wants to be in a relationship with someone who has to restrain themselves from saying horrible things about women in your presence?

Contrarian You have a right to have an opinion, we all do. However I feel this is more to do with you defending your behaviour which you believe is totally acceptable. And this behaviour may be acceptable to you but if it's anything like the Op's partner's behaviour then having read this thread you are now aware that it's not acceptable to the majority of women on here. These women represent the same women you work with, talk to and walk past in real life every day. Maybe you could consider that next time you and your friends have a bit of banter.

My behaviour isn't as bad - but I won't lie and say that I'm an absolute saint. FWIW I've been present when a woman (talking to my wife in my presence) absolutely objectified a bloke who was going to be playing in a band at our local. She left us in no doubt as to what she'd do to the chap if she ever had him alone. I just said that I couldn't possibly allow my wife to attend (joking obviously). Strictly speaking, it wasn't acceptable, but I know that the woman in question (in her 50's and one of the most lovely people you'd ever meet - and also in the presence of her husband) is not sexist. I just think that we're sometimes too quick to judge people.

I don't accept that my dislike of certain elements of the Islamic faith is in anyway akin to my having "a black friend" Nothing like it. What would be analogous would be to say "I'm not sexist....I have a wife"

I work in a male-dominated profession notorious for banter. I can cope with banter. The difference between banter and sexism is that the latter is insidious, and it has to be taken in its cultural context. Sexism towards men is not the same as sexism towards women, though it can be equally damaging.

For example, ogling a woman can leave the woman feeling objectified. The same can be true if the genders are reversed. However, the woman may also feel fear, because generally speaking men are physically bigger and stronger and capable of overpowering her and she lives in a country where 20 years ago rape within marriage was legal, a country in which 1 in 9 women will be raped (probably by someone known to her) and 1 in 4 experiences a sexual assault of some degree, a country in which the first questions asked around a rape case are was the victim drunk, have a history of promiscuity or was she wearing risque clothing. 1 in 4 women will be abused by a partner. A woman is well aware that the right to autonomy over her own body is reliant on men's willingness to accept that. Men do not have that backdrop to contend with and are more likely to be flattered by overt sexual attention. Some will feel very uncomfortable or annoyed, but few will feel intimidated or downright scared.

Sexism contributes to a backdrop that sees women as different to men. As the jokes are always subtle putdowns, it creates a backdrop where it's ok to treat women worse than men. That joke about women being unable to drive has a direct relationship with a man feeling entitled to hit his wife because she burned his dinner.

I'd show him this thread and see what his reaction was.
You'd have all you need to know right there!

Contrarian, and others who don't experience sexism, you might find this website eye-opening.

What strikes me is that the OP doesn't feel comfortable about her boyfriend's behaviour and yet can't deal with it. She laughs along with it and then asks for opinions on here.

OP, if you don't like it, you don't like it. It's okay not to like it. You don't have to tie yourself into knots trying to like it. Be honest. If you don't like it, admit it to yourself and admit it to him. That will be better than pretending that you don't mind.

So you admit that Op's partners behaviour is bad? If you condemn his behaviour as bad like the rest of us on here do, why would you advise someone to stay with an individual that behaved this way? The example of your wife's friend doesn't compare to what Op has been putting up with. I get the feeling your wife's friends and her friends family/friends don't publicly objectify the opposite sex or communicate with the opposite sex in a completely inappropriate manor, like this guy and his family/friends? We really should judge people by the content of their character and from what I have read about this situation thus far, the content of this guy and his family/friends character(s) is pretty poor. I wonder what would happen if you scratched at the surface a little further? By the sound of it , this behaviour has been bred into him by his father. I don't think it will improve, this guy will progressively get worse as he becomes more and more comfortable in the relationship. I most certainly would not want my daughter due 2nd Jan 2014 to be in a relationship with him, anyone like him or to associate with the people this guy associates with.

I can see what you're saying. I just think there's a tendancy to over-analyse. I simply look at it from my own point of view - which is that I've said some things (NEVER in a hurtful way) that would, by some on here, be construed as sexist. Although the op's partner has gone further than I would (though it's difficult to know the context entirely) I'm not necessarily prepared to submit to the notion that he's a lost cause.

People have assumed that sexism is this chaps world view. It may well be at the moment - but that might also be because he's never been told any different.

This chap probably fails the acid test that every man would fail in that he's not good enough for my daughter. If he has other redeeming qualities though, take the time to see if you can potentially mould him into something acceptable.

I have to absolutely contest though that there is a direct relationship between jokes about women not being able to drive (which I've laughed at) and me (and I can only really speak for myself here) feeling entitled to hit my wife. It's just a bit of a leap.

LPP: Because there are different degrees of bad. I've sort of backed myself into a corner in defending this chap though it's not quite indefensible because it's important to offer a contrary view.

If the behaviour is symptomatic of something altogether more sinister - and the op has't suggested it is as he's apparently perfect in every other way, then he just needs to be told about himself.

By the way. I have experienced sexism (in the truest sense) as my old boss - many moons ago - seemed to think it was entirely appropriate to make my life (as her subordinate) a living hell becasue her husband decided to run off with one of her so-called friends.

Relationships eh? I'm having my own dilemmas too!. Hmm - difficult situation for you? Sounds like you like him a lot? It also sounds like this is a problem for you or you wouldn't have brought it here? But in the end only you know how much of a problem it is to you . All that matters is how it affects you and whether you're prepared to accept a 'trade off' because of the things you like about him. I agree with the good advice to talk to him and see if he's prepared to listen and try to change. One thing though if he gives your relationship the credit of taking on your feedback, don't expect miracles change doesn't happen overnight and there will be lapses. Good luck and let us know how you get on.

mrsmono: Perfect.

So the situation with his mum/dad/brothers, if it was 'just jokes' and no real sexism, then they'd all be sharing the housework equally.

Is that what happens?

Or do The Men Of The Family sit on their arses while she bustles round after them, by any chance?

"take the time to see if you can potentially mould him into something acceptable."

No woman should EVER waste her time trying to mould a man into "something acceptable".

Our lives are too short and precious to be squandered on teaching men how not to behave like dicks.

Just find a decent man (there are lots of them) who treats women well and doesn't think that he knows all about sexism because he once had a bitter female boss.

Hold tight. You're being a little unreasonable there. I said I'd had direct experience of sexism. It was properly awful (I was 17 at the time). I didn't claim that the experience somehow made me an expert.

I stand by my other comment. I'm a better person because of my wife. She has, to a degree, moulded me. It wasn't a difficult or arduous process - more about me understadning where her lines were and modifying my behaviour accordingly. It didn't fundamentally chage me as a person, but rather knocked off some of the "rough" edges. I think (on balance) she'd say that she's glad she did even though I'm not everyone's cup of tea

take the time to see if you can potentially mould him into something acceptable

You can't change someone and even if you try to they will resent you in the end, in the same way you would resent them if they tried to change you.. You either accept and tolerate their behaviour or you don't. But imagine having to live with someone whose behaviour irritates you. No thanks. Anyway, why would anyone want to change someone else anyway? All that effort? Tiring! My view, cut your losses and find someone who is naturally, intellectually, emotionally and morally in line with you.. Expend your energies in enjoying a mutually mature and satisfying relationship. Don't waste your time trying to mould an adult that should know better!

Of all the isms, sexism is the one proving most difficult to eradicate. Although there is still some way to go, the unacceptability of racism in society has really taken hold, certainly in official and workplace circles even if not yet on the street. Racist jokes are no longer acceptable. Once you accept that actually a black person is no different to a white person except for the colour of their skin, you realise the jokes are just not funny. In fact, they're downright offensive.

Why it seems to be so hard for people to accept that about sexism I don't know, though fortunately it is happening, just more slowly.

Contrarian, you may not want to think of yourself as being sexist and I can accept that you are a product of your society and that no malice is intended, but that doesn't make it any more ok. Ignorance is not an excuse. By laughing at jokes against women you contribute to sexism. Just as ignoring abuse makes you complicit in it, so does ignoring sexism, racism or any disparagement of any minority group (for legal purposes women are classed as having minority status).