Asked H to leave - in total crisis

[3HotCrossBuns]

Some of you might recall I had a thread recently about contacting the OW which then uncovered some other feelings I was having about whether I could try to reconcile with my H. Anyway fast forward a couple of weeks and it's as if the penny has dropped for him and he is taking more responsibilty and accountability for his choices, saying that he does love me and wants to help me heal, has given me space when I needed it, cuddles when I needed it, set up a tracker on his phone, has given me total transparency on his phone since day 1 etc etc.
Thing is, I feel so hurt and betrayed by his recent PA/EA and his previous EA that I don't think I can get past it. As part of both of those affairs he talked about leaving me, 'escaping his life' etc. I don't think he is seeing the OW (finished with her over the phone on day 1 with me in the room). But I am so devasted by what he has done already that I can't value him now - I don't like him much. Or respect him.
This morning whilst he was out (having an STI check!) I went back through the emails on the pc and found the emails from the EA. I was so upset that, when he got back, I told him we were done and to leave immediately. After a heated discussion he has gone with a change of clothes and his toiletries. Don't know where to. Says this is not what he wants but he understands my decision. This is the third time I have asked him to leave in 12 weeks (1st time was for 2 weeks immediately after disclosure of the PA, 2nd time was for a few days about 6weeks ago). Each time he has respected my wishes.
I am so so gutted. Especially for my children who completely adore him and he them. They are used to him being a very involved parent. He's a hands-on husband about the house too. I feel like my world has collasped, I can't stop crying, the kids haven't had any lunch and have just been in front of the tv all day. What do I do now?? Is there any way back? He says he's determined he will change - is that irrelevant? What's done is done, how do I get over it??

I am glad you got your happy ending Saw

I could not have done what you have done. You are a stronger person than I.

Thank you for your recent posts. I'm not sure the 'life is too short' thing helps either particularly. That awful speed boat accident in Padstow happened the same weekend as H disclosing his physical affair to me and I know people who know the family concerned. It did feel a little close to home and I was grateful that at least I still had my H to argue with!!! Don't know if that makes any sense.

Anyway I really do appreciate all of your thoughts and its helpful to have differing points of view so thanks for posting!!

So we're ready to go away in the morning. I'm (more or less) packed. Relationship with H is very volatile - I'm struggling to understand why he's so angry with me much of the time. He says I'm looking for arguments, ffs. He spent the afternoon out today supposedly doing his favourite hobby and came back with no 'evidence' of where he'd been (which was one of the things we'd agreed on) and then was mad that I accused him of getting up to no good. Says that I was upset he'd been off doing his hobby which I've never liked, always made him feel guilty about blah blah. So bloody infuriating. It made me feel that he doesn't take my anxiety seriously.

I've got a long drive tomorrow with the children and I can't sleep. He said he can't wait for me to go - bet he can't, then he can have his 'freedom'. I don't think he will miss us. Am I being crazy leaving him at home?? The kids deserve a holiday though and I need a break. Actually I think I need to get out of this relationship but where the hell do I start? I'm scared he'll get nasty. He's already shown that he can be spiteful. 4 weeks of being apart starting in the morning. I can't wait either.

This is much worse than the actual infidelity - it's the fall out that's so catastrophic.

Have a good trip - you need the break as well as space to think things through properly.

Sorry to hear he is still being a spiteful angry manchild - he so needs to grow up and man up. I expect he is angry that you aren't sweeping things under the carpet and pretending the whole episode never happened.

I think you're probably right HotChoc. Unfortunately I don't think he sees it that way - he thinks he's 'busted a gut' and 'nothing he does is good enough' and that I'm just looking to have an argument because I want to talk to him about why I'm upset. I know this will end up with him saying the reason we broke up is because despite him doing everything humanly possible I just couldn't get over his infidelity. It's driving me to rage with the unjustness of it.

Anyway happy holidays to me!!

He may well say all kinds of things, some people may even believe him. However if you manage to bite your tongue on the whole and remain dignified, most will be bored of him.

To be honest it is hard to stay friends with the partner who spends all their time moaning about the other, even more when they were the one who "had the affair".

Have a great holiday, strengthen yourself and get home re-energised. Then deal with his rubbish.

I hope you have a fabulous time!

Likewise, do have a wonderful time. I do suspect that his spitefulness might be because this carapace he created for himself with the OW has been blown apart. Now he is having to face the music and - goodness - he really doesn't like it. Sadly he probably longs for a return to those days when he 'had it all' - the OW and the ignorant-of-it all lovely wife. But now he has to justify his behaviour and this is a man who had relished the 'freedom' to be unfaithful to you. He is not alone in this and it does seem to be a common early-days reaction. I would imagine that once you are away, he will calm down a little and hopefully be a little more reflective. You may discover that his tone changes as your time apart lengthens. If you can I think you should try and not respond to abusive texts, and keep your texts straight-forward about how the children are enjoying the holiday, what you are doing etc. Eventually you might get an 'I miss you' text from him if he senses you are unmoved by his histrionics. And at that juncture you will have to decide if you still miss him..

I share your feelings about that terrible Padstow accident - I held my DH and DC very close on hearing that.

Thank you for your messages. It is great to be away, feel I can finally breathe out and the kids have had a lovely afternoon. Not spoken to H since we left this morning (and then barely), texted that we had arrived and kids called him at bedtime. He texted me this evening that he has gone out to meet a couple of friends (one of whom has just lost his job) and that he's had a 'good night'. On the very first night!! He's clearly feeling the loss then. Not. At least I'm not there to suffer nasty and provocative comments when he gets in (he can be a mean drunk).
It's my birthday tomorrow. The first one in 17 years that I've not spent with H. I bet he doesn't realise that. .
So I may be away from home but I seem to have bought my pain and sadness with me. Damn him, damn him, damn him.

So I've been away with the kids and my mother for 10 days now and its been ok, some ups and downs. Kids have actually been ok and its not been too bad dealing with them on my own (more relaxed re routines whilst on holiday). However I'm really struggling about H, everything that's happened etc. I think I need a 'reality check'! Not sure I'm thinking any more clearly than I was before unfortunately - I fear I might be depressed and not perceiving my reality very well. I seem to only see/believe the bad things.

Basically I've been very low, blaming myself etc. In the midst of these feelings I was talking to H over the phone and by text saying he's better off with someone who suits him better than me and all sorts of other negative things. Lots of tears for the first 4 days we we away. He's very worried about me and was strenuously repeating that he was he who fucked up, its all his fault, he is to blame for his shitty choices etc. And that he loves me and wants me to feel better about myself so we can get better too. He is concerned for my well being.

In the time we've been away he has been doing various house jobs (sorting out a claim on the insurance for our damaged roof, getting knives sharpened, fixing his bike and a dripping tap, ironing etc), re-reading some of the emails and links I've sent him, been to his counselling etc. He says he's written me a letter (12 pages so far!) and sent 12 red roses on my birthday. He's also texted me every morning and evening to check how I am, lots of I love yous. But he's also played golf, had a weekend seeing friends from overseas (their daughter is H's goddaughter), been out a couple of times in the evening etc. I just feel like he's not missing me or the kids and that he's enjoying his freedom - although he has been available to speak to the children every night at bedtime so he is clearly thinking about them. He says that the constant pressure and disappointment I am expressing only makes everything worse, he feels nothing he does is good enough and he is getting no credit for the good things, just constant criticism. Is anything ever good enough after infidelity though?? Understandably things are very rocky between us - am I being too tough on him? Am I making reconcilliation impossible? He hasn't been perfect since d-day as I've mentioned before (angry outbursts, frustration that I should take some responsibilty for the problems in our marriage, inability to remember the details of the affair, minimising) but he has been trying alot more than some cheating partners (total transparency, dumped OW, dumped dodgy mate, dropped out of stag do and lads weekend away, sorted out his counselling and our mc, told me more details of the affair than I had evidence for etc). Then I read Chumplady and some of the threads on here then think 'No! I'm being a mug, don't fall for his tricks, its all just a con!'

It has obviously been a stressful time for both of us and he is only human too. He has reduced his ADs dose as well about 6weeks ago as he said they were making him 'numb' and disconnected from being able to express his feelings. He wanted to show me that he is desperately and passionately effected by the breakdown of our marriage as I was struggling without seeing that from him. Now I'm wondering if that has had an effect on how he's been managing (or not!) his emotions. Its true he's emotionally immature (he has recognised this recently) and has not handled the fall out from d-day brilliantly. Maybe we're both depressed, fuck!

Incidentally I sent him the link to the Frank Pittman article that was linked to on another thread this morning. H has read it and says it rings alot of bells for him! I don't know if that's good thing (he's recognising its all him and his issues) or a bad thing (scary that is who I married). He says by seeing these behaviour patterns in himself it makes him aware of his triggers and responses on a conscious level and he desperately wants to change that about himself. Awareness is the first step I guess and something many people don't seem to achieve.

Anyway he's borrowed his mate's tent and is hoping to drive the 300 miles to where I am staying next week to camp at the local campsite for a few days so he can see me, the kids etc as, when and how I choose. No pressure. My oldest is desperately missing his daddy (the kids and H are used to spending time together every day, this is the longest they've gone without seeing each other ever) and its not fair to punish the children.

Sorry this message is very jumbled and long. I'm just going round and round in circles still. Aarrrgghhhhh - will I ever be able to get off the fence??!! Do I need to? If so, when? I just don't seem to know what to think anymore.

I didn't have affairs because I'm too honest for that, I'm a useless liar and cannot keep secrets!! And the opportunity never arose, no one has expressed an interest or even flirted with me for years.
I have tried for a couple of days to communicate only re the DCs but I find it incredibly difficult. H has been my main source of support, my confidant for years. I cannot bring myself to talk to my mother about it. I have had a few texts from a couple of friends who know what's going on but I am miles away from them (and its the holidays so everyone is busy). I feel very very lonely and sad.

3HCB I have just read your thread. I'm with another poster upthread who said that I just want to hug you and then put your brain in the freezer for a while so you don't have to think.

Everything is just so up in the air for you. It sounds like sometimes you are beating yourself up for being confused - like you should already automatically know how you should be feeling, and why, and for how long.... Please don't. There is no right way or wrong way. You are taking everyone's comments on board, reading all the useful links and literature, thinking, feeling your way through, doing your level best. It sucks that it is so confusing and painful. It sucks that he did this to you. It sucks that he is still casting himself in the starring role. I hope you can find some peace and contentment.

I would love to be able to 'take my head off' for a bit too! Isn't that why people get drunk?!?? I've not really been drinking that much for a good couple of months - in an attempt to be able to think about things. Maybe it's time to stop for a while....
I had read that it take about 3 months post discovery to be able to make a decision. Its been 14 weeks and I just want the confusion to end. I'm waiting for a lightbulb moment which I fear just isn't going to come. I wish I had a crystal ball so I could take some of the risk out of the decision - it feels too scary to stay and too scary to leave! I cannot believe he has done this to me, the selfish bastard.

My friend's H had an affair, huge discovery, threw him out (about 3 months), he went into therapy, reconciled. All fine. About 5 yrs later she found he'd been back in contact with OW and seemed to be in an EA with her again. Once again they appeared to sort it out. That was 10 yrs ago and they now appear to be 'solid', retired with grandchildren.

I think he broke something at the time of his first affair that will never be fixed. But she made the decision that she would prefer to live with the broken / cracked version of the relationship than split. It seems to be "good enough" for her - you have to ask yourself whether what is on offer is "good enough" for you.

My own H left, after 25 yrs, for his "soulmate" - a decision I think he now regrets - I'm doing well, enjoying the autonomy - but I will be honest and say its been hard on the dcs.

I'm certainly not unhappy he left, but would have given it another go if he'd been willing - so I understand your confusion. The reality is there is not a correct answer here. You can make either option work for you - both have advantages and disadvantages - in the end it's up to you.

Having been there, my best advice is to take your time - you do not have to make long term decisions, in fact I made it clear when I agreed to try again that I could change my mind at any point in the future. You can't know what you will feel and think in the future so don't put any pressure on yourself.

Also I would focus on yourself - do things that make you feel good/happy (e,g a new book, coffee with friends, a haircut, a course etc) and that will help strengthen your position (eg training, work, interests & support network). This will make a huge difference to how you feel about your life.

Is what H is saying about me being destructive about his attempts to reconcile and make things up to me fair? I don't see why he should have an easy ride but then its no good if i make it impossible for him. I have lost any sense of perspective. He says I need to give him space to prove himself to me but I feel unable to do that and criticise everything.

Alot of what you say makes sense, we have been rather intense with each other over this time. Actually it more me contacting him - he finds it easier to distract himself than I do and to stop an escalating emotional discussion. I am thinking about all of this mess 24/7 and not being very involved with anything else - struggling to watch tv, read a book, interact with the kids. And (he says) he's been trying to give me some space whilst I've been away - keeps telling me to enjoy my holiday!

What about the children though if we 'separate' for a period of say 3 months? Is it not confusing for us to part and then get back together? Currently we're away and daddy is at home to look after the cat and the house! That seems to be ok but when we get home there'll need to be an explanation for him moving out, won't there? We've avoided saying anything much to them as I didn't want to until there was something definite to tell them, if that makes sense. From my point of view 3 months feels a hideously long time to be apart.

I heartedly agree with SchmaltzingMatilda.

You need space away from your h, but being on holiday yourself is not the way. I'm not saying you shouldn't have this holiday - of course you should. It's just that being on holiday is not real life.

I think that you need time at home, some months, with him not there everyday. Would you consider telling him that he needs to leave the house for some time? It would allow you to taste the every day reality, and stretch out your life without the focus being on him. You would both have a much better feel for how things could be and I think, if you were to find other, new interests, build a larger life for yourself, then you would find making a decision easier and clearer.

I'm not saying LTB. I'm saying give yourself room to decide.

I'm not totally adverse to the suggestion of some 'real life' time apart. Would no doubt have be benefits for both of us in terms of getting some space from the frustrations (I actually looked online for 'spare rooms' and 'roommates' local to our home a couple of days ago). I'm concerned about confusing the children though - I guess we say something along the lines of 'we've not been friends for a while and that we're going to try having some time apart to see if we can make friends again. We both still love them, they will see daddy on these days etc'. If he's renting a room locally he won't be able to have them overnight easily (unless at home and I am not there - is that wise or just more confusing?). And short term lets are expensive. Also how often should H see the kids given they're used to daily contact? How do these things work??