Asked H to leave - in total crisis

[3HotCrossBuns]

Some of you might recall I had a thread recently about contacting the OW which then uncovered some other feelings I was having about whether I could try to reconcile with my H. Anyway fast forward a couple of weeks and it's as if the penny has dropped for him and he is taking more responsibilty and accountability for his choices, saying that he does love me and wants to help me heal, has given me space when I needed it, cuddles when I needed it, set up a tracker on his phone, has given me total transparency on his phone since day 1 etc etc.
Thing is, I feel so hurt and betrayed by his recent PA/EA and his previous EA that I don't think I can get past it. As part of both of those affairs he talked about leaving me, 'escaping his life' etc. I don't think he is seeing the OW (finished with her over the phone on day 1 with me in the room). But I am so devasted by what he has done already that I can't value him now - I don't like him much. Or respect him.
This morning whilst he was out (having an STI check!) I went back through the emails on the pc and found the emails from the EA. I was so upset that, when he got back, I told him we were done and to leave immediately. After a heated discussion he has gone with a change of clothes and his toiletries. Don't know where to. Says this is not what he wants but he understands my decision. This is the third time I have asked him to leave in 12 weeks (1st time was for 2 weeks immediately after disclosure of the PA, 2nd time was for a few days about 6weeks ago). Each time he has respected my wishes.
I am so so gutted. Especially for my children who completely adore him and he them. They are used to him being a very involved parent. He's a hands-on husband about the house too. I feel like my world has collasped, I can't stop crying, the kids haven't had any lunch and have just been in front of the tv all day. What do I do now?? Is there any way back? He says he's determined he will change - is that irrelevant? What's done is done, how do I get over it??

Take a deep breath, love

Now you are not rolling over and swallowing what were clearly his lip service empty words about how he was "trying" and he did really respect you despite treating you like the shit on his shoe, he is mightily pissed off

he is following a well worn script and he is the star lead actor

don't be his support act, ignore the whole sorry lot of the bullshit that is going to come out of his mouth over the next few weeks

alternating sorrow/anger/threats/bullying/back to sorrow and feeling sorry for himself

I predict tears, tantrums, failing to take care of himself, friends will report he is "a broken man" (yeah, sure he is), looking dishevelled then dolled up for a night with the lads as he taunts you with his wonderful new single life, back to the hangdog and snotting again

predictable, boring and ultimately designed to get you back in line

don't fall for it

debi came in a time machine from the 1950's and I expect she has flown back there now

The friends are taking DS without H so at least DS hasn't lost out on something he was looking forward to. I'm now accused of using the kids to get at him. Sigh. He said he's fed up of being the bad guy and I'm no angel either. There was always going to be upset about tonight whichever way it had worked out.
He is very emotionally immature but won't accept that. Its been 12 awful weeks since he disclosed his affair to me and its been a total rollercoaster. I feel such a fool for thinking that he would be sensible about a separation - its gone into full divorce and being an arse about money in the space of 5 hours! I really hope he will be calmer soon....

My mother will be with me and the kids so I won't be on my own. I'm a bit concerned about him being in the house whilst I'm away though. Clearly I can't ban him.

It sounds like before this came to light you were both having a hard time but were seeking to sort things out with the counselling etc.... Obviously you were doing this innocently but also 'in the dark' without the full knowledge you now have. I wonder if he was honest about this with his counsellor or in total denial. I also question how much of the affair was effecting your lives without you being aware of it, amongst other things I'm sure having an affair is pretty damn stressful! His anger now seems understandable (tho not necessarily acceptable!), I'm not sure it is his 'true colours' I just think we all have spectrums of behaviour. He is probably angry because he thought he was holding things 'together' and that it would be OK eventually but having been asked to leave again is not so sure!
I think you should take a break, is there anyone who can look after the kids for you for a day or two? So you can get some perspective. My marriage ended after an affair but really the issues were much wider than that. Some marriages can rebuild, and even be stronger, some can't. Only you can make that decision in time.

AF - we can hope.

Hot - he is not remorseful, he is not 'getting it' at all :( It has nothing to do with you not 'taking his issues seriously' it is about how he chose to deal with it. He chose to have affairs and now he is angry with you? He has NO right.

You really can't get past this.

Speak to a solicitor.

Take the kids, have a holiday & take care of yourself.

It is over - allow it to be over, don't put yourself through more of this shit.

He can still bake with the kids & be hands on - in fact, insist on it.

Alstaff - I agree with much of what you say. I did know about the EA almost immediately after disclosure of the most recent affair 12 weeks ago. I had had my suspicions in 09 (the EA lasted from mid 07-09) but was confused, didn't tackle it properly and H denied/minimised it. It then 'went away' for me to examine it properly as part of this latest crisis. He did tell me he had feelings for her etc but I hadn't seen the emails until this morning. Whilst what he said was true (no physical infidelity) it was more involved than what he said. In my pain this morning I said that his attempts to reconcile (which I do think a real - I have read that Chumplady link) and change were not going to help me recover from the enormous pain of what he has done. I said I have no respect for him, there's nothing I like about him etc etc. I do think his anger is him 'lashing out' but I really really hope he doesn't persuade himself that he is right - or it will make for a very acrimonious split. In truth I am still hopeful that in time I might 'get over' what he's done and reconcile.......

About giving him access to the house, this is a really tricky one. It depends how cunning he is. I remember during my divorce process that having access to information (finances / bills, bank statements etc...) was really useful. Particularly access to my ex's information, pensions, earnings etc... Perhaps it would be worth hiding the kids' passports if they have them, not sure what other people would advise here.............. it really does depend how convinced he is you are getting divorced and how nasty he can be.

Some marriages can be rebuilt after an affair - but that has to start with the one who cheated accepting it was their choice to have an affair and accept the damage that has done to the relationship.

Often there are lots of reasons why the relationship wasn't working (for that person anyway) and it's not always 'their fault' that things weren't working, but it is always their fault for not talking about it & dealing with it, but choosing to have an affair instead and unless they 'get' that, you can't rebuild a marriage. He is not going to 'get' that at all (even though he pretended to for a bit) and is just going to keep blaming hot for 'not understanding' etc.

I would take copies of all relevant paperwork and store it at a friends.

Hot Really? Do you think you would ever feel loved, secure & treasured again? Why do you want to reconcile 'at all costs'?

You would still reconcile with this man ? Really ? Oh dear.

"fed up of being the bad guy"

aw diddums.

would be so tempted to reply "so stop behaving badly you twat then"

You only read the emails today, you only found out 12 weeks ago - everything is very new and you don't have to make any decisions right now, you don't have to do anything infact. Give yourself a chance to breathe and don't let DH dictate your behaviour. Turn the phone off?

I think he may have run out of battery now.....

I guess I would reconcile IF he changed etc because I don't believe him to be a bad man. And I loved him and our family life. I realise it wasn't reality and that is so hard and painful to face.

He only took a change of underwear and his toiletries with him. He going to have to come over tomorrow to get more of his stuff. Have no idea where he is. Which also feels awful, I'm worried about him. God what a weak sad pitiful cow I am.

Don't think you are weak or pitiful, you did get him leave today! You are just used to caring about him - it's a pattern of behaviour. Sadly on his side, not caring for you has been a bit of a pattern too!

He is relying on you still pandering to his well being

Think of yourself now

He has made a fool of you...make it stop

Battery not died - another message saying 'see you next term' and suggesting that he's off to the OW's! I replied that its not fair for him not to see the children before we go away. No answer, I suspect he will turn this around and say that its my fault that he's not seeing the kids before Sept due to my behaviour today.
I've spoken to my mother - she's on her way as she doesn't think I should be on my own.

He is so emotionally immature, OP. Why on earth would you want to be with someone like this? You are literally hoping he will turn into a different sort of man.

You can see can't you that your 'behaviour' has nothing to do with whether or not he sees the children before you go away. why would it? This is thinking of a spoilt toddler.

Great that your mum is coming round.

You need to detach from his dramatics a bit. They are obviously not all played out and if you live in relation to his anger and tantrums you will be anxious all the time. Just breathe. Relax. He isn't making any sense at all.

If he wants to go to the OW, that's fine, that shows all you need to know really.

YOu have said above that you don't respect him and can't think of anything you like about him. Why would you want to be with someone you don't even LIKE? It's madness.

I really hope he calms down over night & realises it's too low to punish the children for your reaction to his affairs.

If he is really getting arsey now about divorce & money OP, bear in mind that if you or he leaves the marital home within 6 months of discovery of the affair, then you can divorce him on the grounds of adultery.

Divorce based on adultery must be initiated within 6 months of learning of adultery taking place, regardless of when it actually happened, & it can only be filed by you (ie the wronged party).

EAs come under the heading of 'unreasonable behaviour' & there's a 6 month time limit with that too.

So if he does threaten divorce, you're actually in the stronger position.

You seem like you want to try to work it out, if so good luck with that.

But get legal advice so you know where you stand on every eventuality.

I'm sorry OP, he's an arse, playing stupid horrible games with you. This is to get you to react, to jump, to send him text messages, to engage.
Best thing to do is to ignore him. Very hard to do, but you will recover the upper hand if you do so. Take back your power and ignore.

And go and see a solicitor to find out where you stand.

Leaves the marital home for the third party or just leaves? Presumably has to be permanent.
I don't realistically think he's gone to her (she's married) and was more looking for a response from me. I might be wrong though!

I've not really done very well on the 'ignore' thing today - I did get sucked into the texts about DS. I stopped replying just before 5 and then he sent the one re going to the OW at 6.45. God what an awful mess this is turning into. How do you disengage??!

Don't be too hard on yourself. I've been through it and it's very hard indeed to disengage. I found that telling people, friends, and enlisting their support, helped me. You need distractions, mentally I mean. I'm hoping your mum is helping. It takes practice.

One last tip-try to put out of your head the idea that if you have just one more conversation with him you'll be able to get him to see sense. You won't. He's not in that place at the moment. He may never be. You can't persuade or fix him. But you can try and protect yourself x

I think one of the reasons he is angry is that he believes he was prepared to do the hard graft of fixing the marriage - I do honestly think he totally believes his own rhetoric. He has been saying all the 'right' things re taking responsibility for his choices and seemed to have taken on board all my concerns in the last couple of weeks. I just couldn't take any more pain today. I feel as if my life has been destroyed. In my upset this morning I said some very unpleasant things to him which were not helpful.
I do accept there were problems in our marriage which I am also prepared to be accountable for in some degree. We have been going to mc for 8 weeks and I was participating in good faith through out. Where do I go from here? I'm so confused, I don't want my marriage to be over. I thought he was basically a kind, lovely husband who was struggling with work, life, bullying etc. How can I have been so wrong?

Firstly, separate the work and childhood and bullying from the infidelity. There are no 'excuses' or explanations.

Now, take some time to calm down and think about what I said further up the thread. Work out whether your response is an intense emotional angry response to what you read or whether you know you can't ever love this man again now. He is dealing with this very badly. you need to focus and detach and work out really what you feel and want.