One about a sad pregnant lady married to a sad angry man.

[izchaz]

Before I start, please don't read this and say "divorce him, he's a shit head", much as that might be outstanding advice it's not an option I want to engage with. What I'm after is help in turning the negatives in my relationship into positives. How do I let go of the grief and hurt, and how do I persuade my husband to stop beating himself up over the protracted affair he had with my best friend (no longer)? I try every day to push the positives in our relationship: we're a good team, we can laugh and have fun together, we have an incredible group of friends that we share, we are going to be parents to a much wanted baby, and when we are both behaving we have glimpses of what used to be - it's easy to be together and we can both see how much the other loves us. However whenever times get tough - work stress, the whisper of tightening belts, having to multitask or balance multiple issues at once then the whole house of cards crumbles and one of us reverts to recriminations and aiming to wound the other. He is under a huge amount of pressure with work, an impending family bereavement, the worry of my earnings disappearing when I go off on maternity etc etc, and I try so hard to keep him afloat. On the days when I fail, as yesterday he rails and I cannot help but bite back. Last night we fought from 9 at night until 3am, and only stopped because our lodger came home. Once he has started he will follow me from room to room, verbally attacking and prickling me until I re-engage the fight. I am desperate to stop the cycle as I am conscious that our marriage is tiny and frail (married 11 months, his affair was on/off for the first 7, and when confronted twice he lied about it) and I do not feel it can stand up to such punishment without becoming a very twisted paradigm of what we wanted when we got engaged.
Please, help me to figure out how to break the cycle of bad behaviour we have both sunk into, I am miserable with him now, and would be miserable without him, but we had something so good and so precious not so long ago, and I want to find a way back to that.

The trouble is that what you want is a husband you can live and respect and have an equal partnership with. And that isn't what you've got. So you want to fight and try and build him up to be the husband you want and that your family and friends want you to have.
But he will never be that husband.
He is the kind of husband who spends the first seven months having an affair with your best friend.

He is never going to be the husband you think he should be.

izchaz, in terms of the "I'm not explaining things properly, more detail" posts, what I can't quite glean from your account is what exactly your H is doing to work on the marriage, the framework for positive behaviour etc - I'm only getting about the work and determination you are putting in. What is he doing? As everyone is saying, you can't fix it by yourself.

What are all these friends and family saying to him?

I don't normally post in this section but felt compelled to by the OP.
what struck me from your post was that you said things get bad when times are tough and you quote various life stressors. You are about to bring into the relationship one of the most stressful and testing situations you can - a newborn. Your relationship is not equipped to cope with that.

I was also struck by the fact you sound so articulate and intelligent but you are approaching this thread like you are the relationship, I.e. something you have to put right.

Please separate in order to work this out if that's what you decide to do, you cannot sort this out (if it is salvageable) in the current 'hot house' of raw emotion with the stress of pregnancy when it is all so volatile.

Good luck op, marriage is not a punishment or a test. You will not have not failed at it, your DH will.

You would do better to set an example of healthy self love. Get him to move out. Let him try to earn your trust and respect. If he is a decent person then he knows full well that he has not paid for this transgression. Haven't you ever seen The Mission?? He has already blamed you for putting temptation in his way. The next thing will be when he shave around again "you shouldn't have forgiven me so quickly". Again, have seen this scenario many times.

Shave=shags

I agree on the friends and family having their own agenda as to why couples should stay together, despite what dreadful behaviour one or both parties might have carried out. So don't take it as read they have your best interests at heart.

That's why forums like this are a good barometer. If you decide to leave the marriage or stay, it has zero impact on the posters here.

I'll bet he's telling those who will listen about how much he loves you, would be lost without you etc, etc.

But this is the same guy who argued with his pregnant wife for 6 hours, despite her moving from room to room to get away from him.

I have found it very difficult reading some of this thread and I'm not sure my response will help or even make sense so apologies all round, I am ready to be told off if necessary.

OP, I think I understand what you were asking originally and the way you are trying to handle this very unexpected turn of events in your life. I am sure, at your wedding, this scenario never entered your head as one you would be facing.

Quite a few years ago I tried to get over and around marriage difficulties and worked hard on myself to handle feelings of hurt and betrayal. At that time I ended up going to Al-anon (support for families of Alcoholics) and heard the suggestion of going to six meetings to see if it is for you. One reason is that you may have been affected by someone else's drinking - a parent or sibling, not necessarily spouse - and this might be affecting how you are handling things generally.

When I read your OP I thought of how the Al-anon approach helped me detach from my husband's unacceptable behaviour and work on being a happier and better Mum. It also suggested not making a quick decision to end a relationship but 'working the programme' for a while so any decision was made from a position of strength not weakness (DV an obvious exception).

I'm not for a moment suggesting anyone in this situation is an alcoholic, just sharing my own experience, it comes down to a therapeutic approach to codependency so Melody Beattie might help.

My marriage did not, ultimately, survive and this may have been inevitable from early on but I had to find that out by living through it. I know I did all I could to 'save' it. With hindsight some of it misguided.

I do wish you well and hope you can focus on yourself and your baby.
xx Is

What the world says, in this case family & friends, is always irrelevant, because they never know what's really going on in a relationship, even if you tell them at great length, because they're not in it with you.

Friends & family will tell you not to dump him & then when you get a better partner, they'll say they never thought the ex was wrong all along.

So much for that.

It's very clear how committed you are to trying to making this relationship work, but from everything you have said, your H does not seem to equal this commitment.

Genuinely making amends does not amount to prostrating yourself with self-reproach, that's purely superficial: a sincere repentance can only be founded on total, uncompromising honesty. Otherwise it is a false repentance - half-hearted, insincere.

He has to say that all of this was unilaterally his fault, not yours, not other bird's. And he has to never goad or yell for 6 hours ever again.

I can understand you resorting to "recriminations & aiming to wound" when you're tired, but I cannot understand how you can justify him doing so - and you say very clearly "each other" in this context.

What does he have to be angry with you about, why is he trying to hurt you, is 7 months mucking about not enough? He should be on the floor begging for your forgiveness.

I say he should be doing this - not because that would make him into a perfect man - but because this process of rebuilding the relationship simply will not work if he does not.

^they thought the ex was wrong, not they never thought...

What's worth fighting for is a man who pays the extra 50p to get your marshmallows on your hot chocolate even when he thinks it's a rip-off.

Thank you for this, BB, how lovely :) And how relevant!

Re friends & family - for goodness sake, I've done it. I'm ashamed of my shallow self-interest now, but she wisely left him anyway. The thought at the top of my mind was how it'd mess up our cosy 'dinner party' clique if they split My brother, while I was wailing "Why didn't you tell me you disliked XH2," went off on a romanticised memory trip about what a good couple I made with XH1. That bloke cheated on me, raped me and strangled me, but we were a good verbal/intellectual match and enhanced other people's social lives. So the other people would've preferred me to carry on wisecracking.

I like your constructive framework, izchaz. It's exactly what your baby's going to need. Your commitment to it will keep you steady in the times when s/he tests you extensively. Children need to be safely held in a positive regard at all times. Adults want this, too, but we are not entitled or needful as children are. Adults who demand it from their partners are incapable of providing it to the child, and tend to sap their partners' strength.

Isabeller, you've just reminded me of a crucial lesson I learned in recovery! Thanks!

It's this:
Unconditional love is only for children and animals.
They need & deserve consistent love, but can't be expected to understand conditionality/reciprocity. A frequently one-way flow of love, therefore, is appropriate.
Not so with adults.

Ugh, we've just had another fight. I'm not up to fielding more of this tonight I'm afraid. I will try and pop back on tomorrow and respond some more. I feel backed in to a corner, and it's not comfortable. Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day with a clearer view of the goals. Gnight all.

Good night :) TAKE SPACE! Hope you get some sleep.

OP - before you go, can I just tell you that you are very brave to stick in with us, despite the onslaught you're being subjected to.

Everyone here is right, but to have everyone say it all at once with varying degrees of persistence is hard.

You are handling this thread very very well. xx

Good luck dear sleep well

I'll third that. Well done for listening and posting. Sleep well

Just remember, we are all saying the same thing to you. And we are all very different people. A lot of us have been where you are, so no need to feel ganged up on. Sleep well.

Night sweetheart x

You write such articulate, intelligent posts op.

I think you're an intelligent woman, but how on earth has your husband managed to make you think the affair was all the fault of a) you or b) your mentally ill friend!

He sounds like a bully.

So he stuck his penis in your 'friends' vagina for the first 7 months of your marriage and it's YOUR fault for introducing them?

He should be doing ALL the work here, not shouting at you. He has NO respect for you at all.

Get an STI check, get rid of the bastard and bring your child into calm environment. This is not your fault and you deserve the very best. I really feel for you.

Paradigm? Framework for positive behaviour?
Look, if you want to be a counsellor, go for your life.
But... you can't be his counsellor and his wife. Bit of a conflict of interest.
I've been where you are (not same history) thinking that I could fix this all - what with my intelligence, understanding, degree in psychology... You can't.
Even if NONE of the stuff with shagging your mate (he couldn't help it? Please) happened, 6 hour rows are too much in the first year of any marriage.
You deserve a happier life than this.
You haven't failed if you end it - he has.

Oh dear. He is making you solve the rubix cube of your marriage by peeling off the stickers.

Any work worth doing on this marriage (and I feel there is too much) is all on his end.

You mentioned not being willing to sling him out because you made vows in front of everybody you've ever cared for. He did the same. Unless he is willing to stand in front of them all again and admit HIS OWN MISTAKES then itnis over.

Losing love is a devastating event. You are however pregnant with your first baby. I guarantee you, that no matter how much you think you love this man, you will love your baby more. Forever. Please focus on your baby.

Morning.

Congratulations on being pregnant. You're patient, trusting, optimistic, loving, caring, intelligent and adaptable and you will make a wonderful mother.

You've also said that you'll leave if things aren't better by the time the baby's here. Thing is, doing anything with a newborn is tricky. You might be recovering from an episiotomy or a c-section, sleep-deprived, etc... Just the mechanics of packing could be tough.

So here's a plan. You decide now that you'll spend the first two weeks of the baby's life at your mum's house. You make sure that you have everything you need there and (importantly) you divorce the idea of going to your mum's from the idea of getting a divorce. This is just about making sure you get support from someone who's done this before.

Hi,
have never commented on a post before but your story has really moved me and so here goes!

I really feel for you as this is such a desperately sad and difficult situation to find yourself and your new marriage in. Nobody knows how this situation will work out, everyone has got their own opinion (and some have very strong opinions!) but in the end this has to be your decision.

But I'd like to highlight something from original post, where you say "However whenever times get tough - work stress, the whisper of tightening belts, having to multitask or balance multiple issues at once then the whole house of cards crumbles". A new baby brings a huge amount of stress to a relationship. Even the most strong and healthy relationships get tested to extremes. And in the first few months you alone will go through so many changes and you need to be in a strong and safe place emotionally and physically to cope with this.

"On the days when I fail, as yesterday he rails and I cannot help but bite back." You will not have the energy to be the one holding up the relationship or carrying your husband emotionally once the baby arrives. His needs will need to take a huge backstep and I don't know, from what you've said, if he's going to cope with this or if you're going to cope with the guilt of having to put him second place.

"Please, help me to figure out how to break the cycle of bad behaviour we have both sunk into, I am miserable with him now". I feel worried for you that you are trying to fix a very unhappy situation when you should be focusing on yourself and your pregnancy.

Difficulties in a relationship can be a factor in post natal depression and that would be last thing you need! (I'm not saying it's the only factor, or reason, my marriage was in a good place when I had my first -don't want to sound like a smug married sorry! - but I was under close supervision by my midwife as I went a bit dolahlee in the first weeks, as I couldn't sleep through worry.)

Honestly for your health, your babies health and your marriage I wonder if taking some time out from your marriage for yourself and getting much needed support around you, in terms of family and counselling to get you to a better and stronger place to be able to see the wood from the trees. I don't know how possible this is but I really think you need to put the focus on you and your baby right now and for the first couple of months after they arrive.

Massive long post sorry! Sending many good thoughts to you :)