One about a sad pregnant lady married to a sad angry man.

[izchaz]

Before I start, please don't read this and say "divorce him, he's a shit head", much as that might be outstanding advice it's not an option I want to engage with. What I'm after is help in turning the negatives in my relationship into positives. How do I let go of the grief and hurt, and how do I persuade my husband to stop beating himself up over the protracted affair he had with my best friend (no longer)? I try every day to push the positives in our relationship: we're a good team, we can laugh and have fun together, we have an incredible group of friends that we share, we are going to be parents to a much wanted baby, and when we are both behaving we have glimpses of what used to be - it's easy to be together and we can both see how much the other loves us. However whenever times get tough - work stress, the whisper of tightening belts, having to multitask or balance multiple issues at once then the whole house of cards crumbles and one of us reverts to recriminations and aiming to wound the other. He is under a huge amount of pressure with work, an impending family bereavement, the worry of my earnings disappearing when I go off on maternity etc etc, and I try so hard to keep him afloat. On the days when I fail, as yesterday he rails and I cannot help but bite back. Last night we fought from 9 at night until 3am, and only stopped because our lodger came home. Once he has started he will follow me from room to room, verbally attacking and prickling me until I re-engage the fight. I am desperate to stop the cycle as I am conscious that our marriage is tiny and frail (married 11 months, his affair was on/off for the first 7, and when confronted twice he lied about it) and I do not feel it can stand up to such punishment without becoming a very twisted paradigm of what we wanted when we got engaged.
Please, help me to figure out how to break the cycle of bad behaviour we have both sunk into, I am miserable with him now, and would be miserable without him, but we had something so good and so precious not so long ago, and I want to find a way back to that.

[izchaz]

I really don't mind being told I'm wrong, if I am it will all be borne out in time. What I dislike is being called deluded, stupid, romantic, lunatic and any other number of words used derogatarily to suggest I'm not just wrong, but willfully making it worse. If I'm making it worse I'm doing so whilst trying to find my way to the right course of action.

[motherinferior]

This thread is really quite compelling (though I too think the OP's prose style needs a bit of work). I quite fancy spraining my ankle if it gives me carte blanche to shag around.

[izchaz]

I can't really do much about my writing style I'm afraid, I write the way I speak. It's not designed to romanticise, obfuscate or befuddle, it is a simple reflection of how I see the world. If from that you can diagnose me as being hopeless in this case then I must be hopeless. I write as I speak as I was taught. So it is more likely I have a screaming case of expensive-education, rather than a pathological need to pepper my writing with verbal filigree.

[motherinferior]

Well, it does romanticise IMO, but then quite a lot of people have said that and you don't agree. I don't think a marriage is worth so much pain and unhappiness on your part; you're willing to put yourself through it. So there's not much point my going on about it.

[izchaz]

Good to better - I may move out, as I said previously I don't want to publish on a public forum too much of my plans. I will be seeking counselling however. My car is getting fixed this coming week. I have had numerous STD checks, all clear thank you.

[izchaz]

Good to better - I may move out, as I said previously I don't want to publish on a public forum too much of my plans. I will be seeking counselling however. My car is getting fixed this coming week. I have had numerous STD checks, all clear thank you.

[izchaz]

Motherinferior - that was a truly serendipitous cross post - I was actually explaining and responding to a previous post, please don't feel that was a fullbore response to you!

[izchaz]

Ok, so here's what I have gleaned from the exhausting and emotional process of reading everything written above (in agreement/in disagreement/sweary/heartwarming/heartbreaking...the works):

I'm not wrong to try, however I would be wrong to continue to try and understand why DH did what he did, because it leads me to try and rationalise, and it probably isn't rationalise-able.
Secondly I need to stop excusing him, ask for more, expect more, and stop jumping in to try and bolster him when he struggles.
I understand what you're all saying about it not being all her fault and her being vulnerable, but I genuinely cannot find it within me to forgive her for her betrayal.
To forgive him isn't wrong, but to paper over our massive issues would be short sighted and fool hardy. Hence I need to attend counselling, and then we need to attend counselling together.
I need to spend more time focusing on me, and less time pushing to fix something that at the very least is going to take a long time, and at worst was broken long before I recognised it as such.
I need an ironclad escape route.

Just hypothetically speaking, if we can salvage our marriage and I come back here to tell you about it, will you believe, or will you say "he's cheating you just haven't found out about it yet" or "he just hasn't done it again yet"? Will there be a point at which those of you who think it's broken will accept it is fixed (if it ever reached that point)? I ask, because I have a very clear idea of the point at which I declare you right and abandon ship.

[izchaz]

Once again, thank you to all the posters who've defended my viewpoint and understood what I was trying to get at, I'm not sure I'm right, but it's nice to have some people who don't think I'm barking. I do so desperately not want to be barking afterall.

[WeleaseWodger]

OP. this is a public forum on the Internet. There is absolutely NO need for you to come back and update a bunch of virtual strangers. You don't need to prove anyone wrong or right.

Just do your best for yourself and your baby in real life.

[izchaz]

You don't see the tongue in my cheek there Pramela? Really?

[izchaz]

Wodger - you're right I don't have to, but I know I often wonder what becomes of the people who pose questions like mine, and a few people have asked for me to keep them updated. I don't mind popping back, regardless of what comes, to let people know.

[SisterMonicaJoan]

I don't think it was tongue in cheek. I think you have used language to intellectualise what you are going through as a way to avoid the harsh truth of the situation.

But regardless, I hope you do manage to resolve this before your baby is born and you find peace whatever happens.

[GoodtoBetter]

"I do so desperately not want to be barking after all" is the crux of it and is what makes us sad for you and worry about you. You clearly are desperate for what the rest of us (anyone) can see as clear as day; that you married a weak man, a liar and a cheat desperate for that not be true, or if it is true to somehow magic it away by sheer force of effort. And I am sorry but you really can't. I hope you get right away from him for a while (some weeks) and have some help to remove these blinders you are wearing and work out what the hell has happened in the last couple of years and then what to do next without this desperate fog clouding your every move. Maybe you'll be happy with him and he'll never cheat again but I doubt it and I think you need some time APART and some kick ass therapy before that is even on the cards. At the moment you are flailing around in the hysterical bonding phase and attacking everyone except the ONE person who did this, the person supposedly committed to you.

[sunshine401]

You need to stop the fighting or leave. That little unborn baby is the most important thing now, so if you can not be staying in the situation you are in.
Talk to him, tell him how you are feeling. Remind him about the fact the baby is on its way and you need a secure happy family for them. State that you both need to work really hard now and get back on track.

[Thisisaeuphemism]

"I understand what you're all saying about it not being all her fault and her being vulnerable, but I genuinely cannot find it within me to forgive her for her betrayal."

I don't think anyone thinks you should forgive her. It was a massive betrayal. Only thing is, his betrayal was worse. He was the one who married you only days/weeks before.

And you seem to be searching so very hard to explain why he did it - her madness, his broken leg, - while seeming to be missing the so simple point: He did it. He wanted to do it. He chose it.

He has been unfaithful for 2/3rds of your marriage, and nearly 1/3rd of your entire time together. These aren't great odds but I do wish you all the best.

[Thumbwitch]

izchaz - if this thread has made you think twice about your situation, made you decide to seek counselling for yourself, and made you question more your DH's motivations and actions since discovery, then it's done its job.

I have been in a position similar to yours where I would find the most intricate explanations to excuse my then partner's abysmal behaviour - and it was only when the truth was really thrust upon me that I realised what a numpty I had been, and I can only be grateful to the various friends who I was theorising to that they weren't as bloody rude as some posters on here, even though they might have felt and thought the same way.

In the end, you will do what you want to do, and what is workable for you - but perhaps what that actually IS might be a little different now than what it would have been had you not posted this thread.

Good luck with it all (and fwiw I don't believe your "friend" was at all vulnerable, despite being mentally ill - sociopaths are not vulnerable in general, just bloody dangerous. Your DH still didn't have to have sex with her though - it's not like she had him at gunpoint.)

[Jux]

I would be interested in hearing how you're getting on, izchaz. Good luck.

[LoisPuddingLane]

Izchaz, your post at 16:04 gives me (perhaps all of us) hope that you've taken on board some things. I can only speak for myself when I say that I do not mean to insult you when I say you are deluded. Believing that your very new husband was seriously and serially unfaithful because he couldn't do his normal "risky" exercise - can you see how this could be read as delusion? I'm not even sure what risky exercise is - running barefoot perhaps?

Anyway, yes, this: 'I need to stop excusing him, ask for more, expect more, and stop jumping in to try and bolster him when he struggles.' Yes.

[Overcooked]

Izchaz, all I want to say is that I hope you find some clarity.

You have diminished his behaviour from the outset here, it would take me too long to number them all but every slight you started with has been diminished to nothing in your eyes.

If it had been 'her husband' playing these games with you and you had slipped up a number of times do you thin you would be absolved of blame. You talk about him like a child with no free-will and in fact he seems quite conniving, he should be utterly sorry for what he's done and he's actually utterly sorry he got found out.

And I know you won't want to hear this but he has (from you) been given, absolute permission to do it again.

[themidwife]

I think if you come back in a year really happy & still married we will all say congratulations & mean it. No one wants or expects you to forgive ow by the way. They are both beyond forgiveness imho. But you should see their betrayal as equal. That's all.

[OldernotWiser47]

I have read the whole thread (wide awake, thunderstorm, grr)
"His exercise and even his job are about risk taking, the adrenaline high of it"
and right here you have recognised his motivation, and given the very reason he will likely do it again in the future. Up until then I was sort of wondering. Because home life with a child is not exciting, not after a few weeks. Because his risk taking exercise will have to reduce, , because he is needed at home, or there won't be any money for it. Because someone else's needs always come first.

" my parents gave been married for 30 years, he has been faithful for the last 19 of them"
You would tolerate 11 years of this?
I can, however, see that it would make it more difficult to call it a day, as you have ' proof' that persistence in the end brings happiness. Maybe.
Your mother will never tell you to leave, or that she is possibly not happy, it would invalidate every decision she ever made in her own marriage.
I understand your motivation, though, I have that characteristic myself.

I apologize if quotes are not word perfect- on phone, can't post and scroll back, and too lazy to fire up laptop, so will have to do

[Inertia]

Nobody thinks you should forgive your friend - you don't have to forgive either of them. Your husband should certainly be working a damn sight harder to earn forgiveness though. You both seem to think that the forgiveness has to be there to try to repair the marriage - it's actually allowed to say that you can't forgive at the moment, you're not willing to excuse or move on, even if you want to repair the marriage.

Leaving aside the fact that most of us see your husband as a conniving lying cheat who took advantage of what he saw as a vulnerable woman , whereas you see a lovely man whose sprained ankle and kind heart caused his penis to helplessly fall into a wicked witch (repeatedly, for several months ) - I think you're wise to think about planning for a potential alternative future. Your husband has proved that you cannot trust or rely on him.

I also think that , for your own wellbeing, you might need to try to rally round support for yourself once the baby arrives. Your adrenaline-fuelled, high risk H couldn't cope without sport and needed an affair to deal with the trauma - god knows what he'll do to cope once he has an exhausted, sore wife and a crying newborn in the house . ( Remember not to put temptation his way by introducing him to any women.)