Victim of domestic violence asked to leave holiday park!

[ClementineKelandra]

Ill try and keep this as concise as possible.

I'm on holiday in Wales staying in a caravan. Last night about 11pm an argument started between a couple in the caravan nearby. I say argument but it was mostly a man shouting.

It quickly escalated and the women was screaming, she sounded terrified, and there were children screaming "mummy" too.

At this point I phone the police. Very quickly the security guards from the site turned up. The woman was sobbing , said she was ok and the security guards quickly left.

As soon as they'd gone the man left the caravan. Moments later the police turned up. They spent some time searching the site but eventually the man was found and arrested.

This morning the women was sat outside the caravan and I went over to check she was ok. She has a broken nose! :( the caravan was a bit messed up too. Several internal doors were off their hinges.

We talked for a while and she told me she'd been asked to leave the holiday park!! I Wa stunned at this but she said she was going to leave anyway as her and the dc didn't want to be there after everything that had happened the night before.

I couldn't stop thinking about her being told to leave and later that day I went to speak to the general manager of the site.

He confirmed that yes she had been asked to leaved because they had a zero tolerance policy on violent behaviour.

I pointed out to him that it was the man who had been violent, he'd assaulted the women, she is basically being punished for being the victim of a crime and by asking her to leave they were implying that she was in some way to blame for the mans behaviour.

We talked about it for quite a while and I tried several different ways to get my point across. To be fair he did really listen to me and tried to understand but basically he didn't get it.

He also trotted out the usually ill informed stereo types "women like that never want to press charges" etc.

I'm so angry. In one way does it really matter because she wanted to go home anyway?

But on the other hand if we don't challenge such ignorant attitudes towards domestic violence then nothing is ever going to change. I feel like I want to do something to make the holiday park realise how wrong their attitude is.

Sorry if this is a bit jumbled. Trying to keep it as short as possible.

Expecting caravan park small businesses to have the security of military camp, be an auxiliary womens' refuge, an extension of social services, operate the investigative powers of a police force, and have Solomonic wisdom to untangle domestic wrangles - and no doubt still operate at an affordable price and keep the 99% of other guests contented - is extremely unrealistic.

DV is rough on the victims, but it's not the role of small holiday companies to solve it.

If he says he is innocent and she says he is guilty, when she has a broken nose, there are doors broken off the hinges, he presumably has some physical indicator of having done that like scuffed knuckles & it has been independently reported to the police by a neighbour as it having been him attacking her? I'd say that was pretty clear cut tbh. I don't think his protestations of innocence would have no bearing on how anything proceeds.

As to taking statements being unrealistic, someone upthread mentioned insurance as a possible reason for parties being asked to leave the site. Surely the insurance isn't going to pay out for repairs and replacements caused by criminal damage if the park doesn't either involve the police themselves or at least try and ascertain exactly who caused the damage? So statement taking needn't be something which is the sole preserve of potential DV cases, it should be standard practice if there has been an altercation and/or damage to park property. If taking statements is standard, it is really no extra effort to also make it policy that the person deemed more likely to be the main aggressor be taken to the security base for their statement and the party/parties more likely to have been the victims have their statements taken in their caravans. That would work just as well for a random attack by a stranger as for DV. If some randomer broke my nose, I would far rather give a brief statement in the comfort of my caravan than have the experience compounded by having to go to another area and sit in an office to relay my version of events.

I agree with lazeyjaney on this.

The caravan was trashed. The party renting it would automatically be removed from the park. And rightly so. Has it even occurred to you that the property belongs to someone? They don't all belong to sites. It would need to be repaired. Maybe it was let for the next week. Why should other people have their holidays ruined by this? And because the woman is a victim of DV it does NOT trump the rights of everybody else.

Yes Clementina I hope you feel thoroughly chastened after reading all these posts.

What on earth did you think were doing, trying to help? How irresponsible!

It would be helpful to know which holiday park company this is, so that those of us who wish to avoid companies with this kind of "policy" can do so.

I have messaged Mumsnet HQ about this, I am so disgusted by some of the responses and their victim-blaming.

I don't actually expect the park to remove the perpetrator themselves or conduct any investigation into who was at fault. I don't even expect the park to provide telephone numbers for women's aid or drive victims to the local refuge. I don't expect the park to pay for the damage.

I do expect the park to call the police. I do expect them to ban the perpetrator. I do expect them to have procedures in place for dealing with and preventing unauthorised people on the site. I do expect them to deduct the cost of the damage from the deposit or pursue the matter trough the courts. I do expect the park management to comply with any police advice or investigation. I do expect them to take into account the findings of the police investigation when making decisions about who is banned.

I do not expect or condone the park management adding insult to injury by punishing the victim.

Totally agree with what K8 has said. The woman is a victim of violence and is being treated by the park as somehow being responsible for the damage because she has a violent ex-partner.

Some of the replies on this thread are awful

Oh fgs, some of these comments are fucking horrible. I wish I could say I'm surprised, but I'm not.

OP, well done, I admire you for speaking up for this poor woman, the park manager was in the wrong, and it just shows how little we actually do to help victims of abuse leave. I hope she and her children are safe now.

Good god. The park is only following policy? Blanket policies for all types of violence?

Sadly, I think that's what zero tolerance means for them.

A friend of mine had something similar happen where she works. Without the trashing of the place.
She would have liked to thump the man herself. Sadly she couldn't, obviously.
She, being a woman, offered lots of support to the victim.

One thing is the business policy, which can be very cold and yes, blanket, another is the sensitivity of the managers involved.
In this case, the manager does seem pretty insensitive.

Genuine question:
You let a house/flat to a couple, the man thrashes the place and assaults his wife.
The police is called, and he's arrested, but she doesn't make a complaint, doesn't ask you to put him off the contract, and so on.

What do you do? Do you allow her to stay? Do you evict all of them?

This thread is so sad.
All anyone is asking is for people not to turn the other way when they see what is obviously wrong;
The 'other side' that is mentioned, funnily enough, is the one that is presumed exists despite the evidence of eyes and ears and which justifies doing nothing.
What kind of world do those of you who advocate a 'blanket policy' of 'not getting involved' because of selfish interests want to live in?
Because the one we have is one where violent partners kill on a weekly basis.

I genuinely don't know. since he would no longer be in the house, having been arrested and CPS would have a decent enough case, I would let them stay.

Either way, you couldn't just kick her out, she would at least have time to find alternative accomodation

Lweji, my client did just that. I'm a solicitor, she's a client of mine with a few properties in the small town where I practice.

The thing is, the CPS decided to prosecute the man even though the wife withdrew her statement (maybe a slight difference to your example?).

My client knew she was probably on a hiding to nothing, but she did all she could to protect the woman and her children. I was and am full of admiration for her (she's a close friend as well). Very well off, large family of her own, doesn't need the hassle etc etc, but she stuck her neck out.

So it can be done. The police here were excellent too and made it clear to him that he wasn't to return to the address. My client re housed her and the children elsewhere while the place was repaired.

Restores your faith, (even allowing for the fact that she is wealthy and can afford to do this).

The wider point is though, that of course, not many landlords would react like this.

And btw Clementine, I think you did a good thing.

Peppermint, that's lovely, as you said, restores your faith!

The wider point is though, that of course, not many landlords would react like this.

And that's the bigger problem. We can all say "don't get involved, protect yourself" but ultimately, if we don't speak out, or stick out our necks then how are we better than the abusers?

I agree, and my friend showed that it can be done, by a "faceless" landlord, if you like. I was reading some of the things on this thread and thinking that if I ran a caravan park I would make damn sure I supported the victim rather than lumping them all in together. And I would work my arse off to ensure there was a proper policy in place to protect as well. I appreciate that people will say that it will be looked at as a commercial venture, and therefore why should they stick their heads above the parapet. But I say-why not?! A strong manager would have found a compassionate solution, and it was right that they were challenged.

YY to raising awareness and sticking our necks out and standing up to be counted. Wish there were more of that kind of hero.

Could MNHQ do something similar to WBY for victims of DV? Help quash those myths, esp in light of charles saatchi's attack on nigella lawson.

It would be helpful to know which holiday park company this is, so that those of us who wish to avoid companies with this kind of "policy" can do so

You will probably find that it's very difficult to find one that wouldn't have this kind of policy, at that price bracket anyway. The only sort of places that may Even begin to have the sort of resources to do what some are demanding here are places like Center Parcs, but they are far more expensive (be interesting to know what their policy is)

Hmm. I'm not sure secure perimeter fencing, an entry system of some kind and the cost of a 999 call are prohibitively expensive. The first two are just what any holiday park catering for families should be doing and the latter is what anybody should do.

I supouse every caravan park got insurance policy covering that kind of damage

OP you had done wonderfull thing
To some of people is difficult not to blame victim
which in my opinion is wrong

perhaps they have to grow up to decision to say stop to the abusse

to those who are victim blaming:
you don't know that she is not pressing charges

you don't know she is not leaving him

you don't know that this was not the first time he hit her and the line that means it is over
you don't know that she has not been saving up money and arranging a play to stay and planning her escape

but don't let the fact that you know nothing about her other than one single solitary fact they she was the victim of a vicious assault stop you judging her because of course you know best

and yes SS do take children in danger of domestic abuse into care. not to punish or judge the mother,
to protect the children. there is a difference.

Good grief, all this justification of a company harassing and punishing a victim of violence. Do you think someone who is mugged in a shopping centre should be thrown out by security?

It's not hard to work out the right thing to do. Bad person did something bad and police have carted him off. You support the victims and offer help and reassurance.

A caravan site has a responsiblity to its other customers and employees. If a caravan is trashed then it has to be repaired quickly so that it is not out of action. This is not victim blaming, but economic reality.

I fact that the family had to leave was the fault of the perperator rather than the caravan site manager. The site manager did not smash up the caravan or break anyone's nose. He has has to run a business which keeps people in work.

Imagine you get a phone call that your longed for holiday has been cancelled at the last minute because the site has decided to put this family in your caravan. Would you feel pleased?

I suspect that being kicked out of a caravan park is the least of a DV victim's worries.