Was it abuse or am I over-reacting... (long)

[dejags]

Hello everybody,

I don't know why this has started bothering me lately but I was hoping that some impartial opinions may help settle things in my mind for me.

I had a very unstable childhood and for a while now I have been brooding about it and have been "secretly" very angry with my parents for many years.

My mother is an alchoholic who in my opinion might have a bit of bipolar disorder. My dad beat my mom for years when she was having episodes or sometimes the beatings caused episodes.

My earliest memories are of extremely violent arguing between my parents and on many, many occasions I was subject to beatings and to this day still endure verbal abuse from my mother.

A couple of examples:

When I was about 6 years old I tried to look at my dad's watch - I was desparate to learn how to tell the time and wanted him to teach me. He was in a bad mood and told me to leave him alone, when I persisted he punched me in the stomach so hard it sent me flying across the room.

When I was about 10 years old I got a phone message from my mom mixed up which resulted in a huge row between my parents - my dad came into my room in the middle of the night and dragged me through the house by my hair screaming at me that it was all my fault and that I was to look at what I had caused, he had beaten my mother and she was bleeding and bruised.

On many other occasions I tried to stop my dad beating my mom and he would turn on me.

On more occasions than I could ever remember my mom would get drunk and verbally abuse me - belittling me in front of friends. On a couple of occasions she was also violent towards me - she hit me over the head with a telephone set once.

From being tiny my moms episodes always dictated family life - she hardly ever went to any school plays, recitals, parent/teacher evenings because more often than not she was too drunk or hungover.

My brother - funnily enough was never subject to any beatings but these days he bears the brunt of my mums verbal abuse when she is having a bad time of things..

I suppose my question is this - I am secretly very, very, very angry with my parents. I wonder if I am over re-acting and that has they would have me believe, our family was just a little bit beyond the norm or if I am justified in my anger.

I am pregnant again and this has made me think long and hard about how I want my kids to be raised and how they will perceive me in years to come. Most of all I don't want to repeat the mistakes my parents made...

Opinions???

Wow - this may sound cheesy but I wish I could give you a big hug!

First of all you are definitely not over reacting. You where abused! I am sure you aware that that is not an acceptable way to treat a child or anyone!!!

i dont know why your parents behaved they way they did and i dont think anything can justify abusing children... it makes me so sad to read your experience. i am sure they must of had some mental problems thay they took out on you as deep down they cant of really wanted to hurt you....

I am just leaving work now but will log on tonight. I really feel for you and hope you rest these demons.

I will say that my mother was abused as child up until she was fourteen and it has not effected her being a wonderful mother, infact she is on of the most caring people I know and all my friends always comment on that. so dont think your experience will make you a bad mum. You really need to talk to someone about this though, yuo should speak to your Go so they can put you in touch with the right people. You have a right to be angry. I definitley think for your childrens sake you should go to counselling and help lay these horrible memories to rest.

You are very brave for taking these steps, you obviuosly want the best for your children.

Ill see if you are online later

Lots of love
shirley

Not really sure what to say, you have every right to be angry, and to be wary of not repeating this with your own children. But I think your awareness of this is a large step to not doing the same as your parents.
Not sure if this is helpfulat all, sorry!!
Good luck xx

Dejags - I'm not the best person in these situations and I also have to leave work now but I really couldn't go without saying - no - you are not over-reacting by being angry with your parents, very angry, you have every right from what I can see to be hurt and incredibly angry.

I don't believe, by the nature of your post, that you could ever repeat the terrible things your parents did to you.

I'm truly sorry you had to endure the things you did and just glad that you seem to have turned out just fine.

Sorry I can't stay or be of any help.

Lots of love - TC x

dejags, I think you already know the answer to this: you wouldn't do it to your kids (or anyone else's for that matter). big hugs, wish I had some proper advice to give to you, x

message withdrawn

Message withdrawn

OMG you poor soul.
Yes they did abuse you - mentally and physically. B@stards - sorry but I feel so strongly about this topic.
The fact that you have come out of this ( obviously ) a compassionate and caring individual is amazing. WELL DONE YOU.
Your worries prove that you have a heightened awareness to the issues of abuse and I wouldn't worry - you sound like you are doing great - just enjoy being a mum!
Hugs

Certainly it is abuse and in no way will you be like that to your children. You are doing a great job of loving them.

So sorry you had to endure this and do hope you will be well soon.

Little child says, "Mommy, there's an elephant in the living room!"
Mommy says: "Don't be silly, there's no elephant in the living room".
"Really mommy, there is! Do you want to see?!"
"LISTEN I TOLD YOU WE DON'T TALK ABOUT -- " Mother pauses and composes herself, grasps child severely by the arm and looks him full in the eye "There is NO elephant in the living room".

See, you tell a child that what they're living isn't really what they're living, and after a while, the child gets as adept as everybody else in the family at pretending it doesn't exist. But it does... That's your childhood Dejags. What you described was horrible, but it was so normal for you, and your family just acted like it was normal... just like it would never be worthy of comment to mention that you had an elephant in the living room. That's why it's sad that you even have to ask us "if it was just a little beyond the normal?"

Of course, the conflict between reality and the family lies tends to drive people nuts and into self-abusive behavior themselves... Not least because they still have it drummed into their head that there was no elephant... You're rather sane, Dejags, if you can feel real anger and not be turning it inwards.

It was abuse, no doubt. Being angry with your parents is natural, normal and healthy. They gave you a hell of a lot to be angry about. What you experienced was NOT normal. You are justified. Whether you want to choose to be angry is up to you. You may choose not to see them any more. You may choose to confront them and tell them how you haven't forgotten and you havent forgiven. This can be remarkably cathartic. You will not raise your children like that. You are self aware and compassionate. You are a different and better person than either of your parents. I feel angry and compassionate for you as a child. It is such a mercy that you are now OK and you know how NOT to behave to your own children. Congratulations - you really have triumphed over adversary.

My word dejags. It most definitely was abuse. I'm so sorry.

Dejags, you're not overreacting, yes you were abused and yes you have a right to be angry. ((((hugs))))

God. Bless you, having to wonder about whether it was abuse.
xxx

You poor love, this is definetely abuse, no child should have to be subjected to this (there is arguing yes, which is a part of the ups and downs of everyday life of being part of a family, but to be punched and woken up in the night that is not normal. I really feel for you..

My father was an alcoholic and although he never ever physically hurt us, he would get nasty in tongue when he'd ahd a few...even drove my sister and I in his car when drunk. I was very very angry with him because of his behaviour and obvious lack of responsibilty towards us, when I got older and understood what he had done. I only felt it in my heart to forgive him when he passed away, nearly 3 years ago...it is very hard to forgive and brush this kind of behaviour aside...it is hard to deal with and you only do waht you feel is right...anger is a very normal reaction...there is no doubt that you wont be like this with your own children...my heart goes out to you and I wish you a lot of luck and guidance when you need it most.

Love lavxxx

Your responses have made me cry. It's a shock to see what the outside world really thinks. The only person I have ever told is my husband and he has always insisted that I should try and muster the strength to do something about this. He is wonderful and has offered to support me in any way he can - be that coming with me to see a therapist or being with me when I face my parents.

The trouble I have is that my dad in particular is very clever and manipulative. If I had to bring this up he would deny it and make me feel as if I was crazy - there is no doubt in my mind that he would react this way. I don't know if I could handle this response - it would be just another put down. A bit of background on this - when my brother went to highschool my parents had just come into some money (had always been broke before this). Anyway my parents put him in a fancy school - all of a sudden my dad became the pillar of society and anything and everything was done to keep up with the Jones' - he has never laid a finger on me since this (god forbid the neighbours find out about his nasty behaviour). I have reason to believe he has hit my mother once or twice since but nothing more than that. So in reality I would be going back 15-20 years to the worst of the hitting - a fact he would throw in my face too.

On the other hand my mother just couldn't get away with trying to deny her behaviour because it continues today and there are so many witnesses to her appalling behaviour - most recently she rang us up 11 times in row starting at 9pm and finishing at 2am (when I switched the phone off) calling me all the names under the sun and telling me I was useless as a person, wife and mother.

I just don't know what to do. Dh and I are heading back to SA for good once our baby is born in September, this would mean a great deal of physical distance between us. But as DH say - will this be enough to heal me...

Thanks for your responses - you have no idea how much they mean...

dejags, are they both still around? You mention being still verbally abused by your mother but not your father at all...

Yes, they abused you. Yes, you are justified in your anger. No, you are not over-reacting.

I shouldn't think, from reading this, that there is any danger at all of you repeating their terrible mistakes - but I'm wondering why it has taken so long for you to start wondering about it? Is it just because you're pregnant or has something else happened lately?

Sorry, dejags, your post wasn't there when I started.

Will the distance be enough to heal you? Probably not. I should think you would benefit hugely from kind of therapy, to talk it out and be absolved of the guilt you have been burdened with. You don't owe your parents anything and they should be apologising to you.

Hugs dejags, I was abused and it took me years to admit it. I hope you can begin to heal. Your posts are amazingly brave

pie xxx

I would like to thank all the Moms out there for the kind words you have had for my wife(DeJags).
Please forgive the intrusion, but I thought I needed to tell you all that She is the most wonderful Mother in the world, as I am sure you all are.

Thank you for been there for her, you can't believe what a differance your kind words have made.
I will leave you with that thought, but know that you are all in my thougths.

kindest regards.
torien(the DAD)

Didn't happen to me, but my dad had a fairly cr**y upbringing - he is a great father, but has had his problems...in the end he (and his sister) have both had counciling to deal with their upbringing. This may be a way to go....you are so aware of the issues that I don't think you will replicate it...the toughy is admiting you are angry with you parents. We are all brought up to respect our parents so to admit they hurt us/damaged us is hard. My father came away saying he hated his mother for what she he done, but he no longer felt guilt about hating her (and the latter feeling was what actually had caused the damage...) I know it is trite but you can chose your friends, but you can't chose your family... and equally that doesn't mean you have to like them, or accept what they do to you....
Lots of hugs and support....sure you are a great mother... you have self awareness and thats half the battle...

Wow, this all coming to the forefront of your mind must be really a lot to deal with, totally support what others have said, and huge support to you however you choose to go forward. IME things like this tend to 'bubble up' once we're feeling safe and grounded in our own lives, and it sounds like you have a great DH and are a great mum yourself.
You mention 'will this be enough to heal me?' (the distance). What I'd say is that the distance might help a bit. If you mean breaking off relationships altogether, and you think this is what you want to do, and can stick with it, that would be one way to end the continuing abuse and stand up for yourself which is the important thing here. If you are going to still be in touch though, then establishing boundaries with your Mum is something that might help e.g. talk with DH about what you are prepared to put up with and what you are not. Make contact conditional on her behaving in a respectful way towards you - you don't need to tell her the 'rules', just try to butt in when she starts and explain that you won't put up with it and then put the phone down. (I know that's easier said than done btw).
I think it might help you to talk to someone objective - maybe a counsellor or support group - about what happened in your childhood. I guess the ultimate would be for them to acknowledge what happened too, but (sorry) I think this is really unlikely and would take a whole lot of working together as a family, which is going to be difficult with the distance. These are just my thoughts, and I'm sure others will have more helpful ones too, meanwhile, huge respect to you for building a lovely family and coping with what yu've been through. (Sorry post is so long!)

Dejags - there is not much you can do now about the past. Its happened and yes I too believe it was abuse - of course it was.

I think there may be issues for you in how you deal with the past and agree with some of the other posters that counselling may help you work out how best to cope with the legacy stuff. I don't think there is any chance of you perpertrating that kind of cruelty on your own children - you sound way too self aware for that.

I think really though that you should think about the here and now and what kind of relationship you want with your parents now.

I have been thinking - your father by the fact that he was able to change his behaviour - was probably the most aware that it was inappropriate. I agree that he may be agressive if you confront him with this - but that is just a form of defence. It is possible in time that you might get beyond that with him.

Your mother is, I suspect, the real problem that you have. Her alcohol problems meant that she was unable to protect you as a child and have led to her being agressive and unpredicable towards you as an adult. That must hurt like hell Additionally you are having to deal with the fact that your parents, mother especially, do not have a fullfilling relationship with their grandchildren. That must also hurt - they will never experience the kind of unconditional love that grandchildren have a right to expect from their grandparents. But your parents too miss out - another casualty of this sorry affair!

Do you think as far as your mother is concerned that you would like to speak to someone from al anon - the support group for the families of alcoholics. There is nothing like speaking to someone who can make you feel that you are not alone in this - that, if you like, the road you are travelling along is a well travelled road and many have gone before you and arrived at a destination which may not be perfect, but is livable with?

I really do wish you the strength to see this through whatever the path you choose. But you really must understand that, whilst as a child you could not make choices and were not in control, as an adult you are fully in control of the choices you make. Your parents are not in control any more. If you make the right choices then they will have lost the power and control over you, and your family, that they have so badly abused for much of your life!

ooooh honey - you have a good DH - believe me it pays off ( in spades ) to be honest with your partner .... they really do appreciate what you are going through xxxxx

Mr dejags, that was a such a lovely post. I'm so glad you and dejags have each other.