Was it abuse or am I over-reacting... (long)

[dejags]

Hello everybody,

I don't know why this has started bothering me lately but I was hoping that some impartial opinions may help settle things in my mind for me.

I had a very unstable childhood and for a while now I have been brooding about it and have been "secretly" very angry with my parents for many years.

My mother is an alchoholic who in my opinion might have a bit of bipolar disorder. My dad beat my mom for years when she was having episodes or sometimes the beatings caused episodes.

My earliest memories are of extremely violent arguing between my parents and on many, many occasions I was subject to beatings and to this day still endure verbal abuse from my mother.

A couple of examples:

When I was about 6 years old I tried to look at my dad's watch - I was desparate to learn how to tell the time and wanted him to teach me. He was in a bad mood and told me to leave him alone, when I persisted he punched me in the stomach so hard it sent me flying across the room.

When I was about 10 years old I got a phone message from my mom mixed up which resulted in a huge row between my parents - my dad came into my room in the middle of the night and dragged me through the house by my hair screaming at me that it was all my fault and that I was to look at what I had caused, he had beaten my mother and she was bleeding and bruised.

On many other occasions I tried to stop my dad beating my mom and he would turn on me.

On more occasions than I could ever remember my mom would get drunk and verbally abuse me - belittling me in front of friends. On a couple of occasions she was also violent towards me - she hit me over the head with a telephone set once.

From being tiny my moms episodes always dictated family life - she hardly ever went to any school plays, recitals, parent/teacher evenings because more often than not she was too drunk or hungover.

My brother - funnily enough was never subject to any beatings but these days he bears the brunt of my mums verbal abuse when she is having a bad time of things..

I suppose my question is this - I am secretly very, very, very angry with my parents. I wonder if I am over re-acting and that has they would have me believe, our family was just a little bit beyond the norm or if I am justified in my anger.

I am pregnant again and this has made me think long and hard about how I want my kids to be raised and how they will perceive me in years to come. Most of all I don't want to repeat the mistakes my parents made...

Opinions???

Oh sheesh, Dejags! Your dad just wants to say: "Whatever happened you made it up, you're exagerating it, whatever happened maybe was even your fault." What a load of rubbish. Did you understand the Elephant in living room analogy? Your dad is still pretending the elephant was/is never there. And this denial of reality is enough to drive anybody 'round the bend.

You have no idea how much you fit into a syndrome -- a movement, even. If you are headed back to the USA you might find support in a group called "Adult Children of Alcoholics" ; even if you didn't have an alcoholic parent, it's for people who had truly crazy-making parents. And in most cases, are keenly aware that if they don't deal with their past, they may repeat the cycle of craziness.

The ACA group are living proof that you don't have to repeat the past.

Lots to think about?

JMG - you have described the dynamic so well - particularly the bit about my parents relationship with DS and I presume the new baby (when it arrives too). My parents and DS have no relationship to speak of whatsoever - a lot of this has to do with the fact that they live 250 miles away but it also has a lot to do with the fact that I don't trust my parents one jot with my son. My mom has offered to have him for a week while we go away on our own before our new baby comes but there is no way on earth I would do that - what would happen if she hit the bottle and started on one? ? I could never forgive myself. My dad on the other hand has nothing to say to my son except things along the lines of - if you touch that again (a very interesting bowl of goodies) I'll smack your bottom. I'd like to see him try ? don't know who would deck him first if he ever did, me or DH. Another form of control these days is that my parents make me feel inadequate as a mom - they are always inferring that I don't have any control over DS and that I spoil him. My mom actually said to me a while ago that I am "over the top" with DS, that I tell him far too often that I love him and cuddle him way too much - she ended by saying "he'll only leave you in the end" - need I go on?

Zebra - you are right about the elephant analogy, it's so hard to deal with something that will never be acknowledged. I realise that I have to try and sort myself out and stop trying to take responsibility for fixing the whole family unit - that's not my job and it's not something I could ever accomplish.

I have been thinking and thinking and agree with all of you that say I should get some councelling. I am going to go to my GP and try to sort something out. I have also been trying to pinpoint why this has come out all of a sudden. I think that it's due to the fact that I had PND quite badly after DS was born and because I am pregnant I am scared it will rear its ugly head once again. I could see shades of my mother in myself when I had PND and I HATED that - it really frightened me and ultimately I think the knowledge that I didn't want to be like my mom really helped me deal with it.

Today seems better somehow - I think talking about it helps A LOT and obviously having a very loving and supportive husband (thanks for the message my darling ) really helps too...

Anyway I have waffled on for far too long (war & peace again)..

Thanks very much?
dejags

Honey - I know exactley how you feel - althogh my parents (and I use that word loosly!) were never violent to each other just to me and my sister - I remember after me stealing a 20 pence piece when I was 5 years old - and it was just because I wanted this nice shiney 20p piece (they had just come out) and my stepmonster held my hand on the coffee table whilst my father held a carving knife over my hand saying that in some countries they cut hands off of thieves so they could not do it again - it makes me so angry and sad to realise that they could do that to a child they were supposed to love and keep safe.

Anyway it has made me a better person and I vow never to hurt DD like they have hurt me - I have gone through all of the emotions - sadness, anger, disgust and now speak to a therapist about it all - it has helped but I will never ever have a relationship with them again. They of course deny any abuse or mistreatment and I really think they are either dillusional or think that it wasn't so bad really.

You never get over it at all - have you spoken to them about it - are they still together??

Most of all I would say you need to speak to a therapist about it and realise that none of it was ever your fault and it does in the long run make you more aware of the feelings your children have and to be sensitive to them and in the end a better parent.

If you want the number of my therapist mail me - I am sure you are near me and she lives only 5 minutes drive from me. It has really helped.

Oh and you are not to blame at all for anything that has happened to you with regards to your parents XXX ()

dejags, it must really hurt when your mum says awful things like that about you and your parenting. I think because we expect unconditional love from our families we take things they say terribly seriously. But they really aren't necessarily true, not at all. I know I've had some very hurtful things said to me by members of my family and I used to think they must be right since they know me so well, then I realised that they don't necessarily know the person I am now iykwim, I don't know if that makes sense? It doesn't sound to me as if there's any chance that you'll turn into your mother - you're too self aware for that. I agree with whoever said that you need to set some boundaries with your mother. And your father too if he persists with threatening violence to your ds.

This is SUCH a positive story. Torien, and Dejags, I know you have been through so much this year with the death of your M/IL, and to face up with clarity to a past of emotional, psychological and physical abuse is your strongest defence of your happiness and strength as a family in the future. Your dad will probably never admit it, the manipulation and denial is part and parcel of the abuse he operated when you were a child. Move forward and away, they can stew in their own problems! What a great couple you are..

Twinkie - I'll email you about the details for the therapist - thanks very much. I have a feeling that if I wait on the NHS it'll be another 6 months before anything happens

My parents are still together despite splitting up many times, 3 times while we were kids and once very recently (they only got back together about 6 months ago).

I now have to decide whether or not I want to open this can of worms directly with my parents by telling them that I am planning to have some counselling because of what they did. Right now I am so angry with both of them I don't want to speak to either of them but they are likely to phone soon. My dad can get very anxious if we don't report in at least once a week. How do I go about telling them that I don't really want to speak to them at all until I have had the opportunity to sort myself out.

More questions than answers right now

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Hi dejags - I haven't had time to read all the posts so forgive me if I repeat anything.
I had an abusive childhood and I can understand why you needed mumsnetters to 'judge' how normal your own childhood was. What helped me (back in the days before mumsnet) was talking to my siblings about our childhood. Could you talk to your brother rather than your parents?
I have spoken to my Mum a few times but she denyed everything all but one time and then she said 'We'll discuss this tonight', and then didn't.
Talking to my sister made me certain that my memories weren't false - the elephant was really there!
I am having counselling at the moment due to PND, the waiting list in my area is only one month! so it could be worth going to the GP and asking to be referred.
I have seen what a wonderful mother my sister is and that gives me hope that I will not repeat anything bad to my children... I am certain that you are a wonderful mum.
From my experience I would start counselling before approaching your parents.. counselling is a good way of getting your head 'in order' and working out exactly what it is you need to say/ or need them to say to you.
Sorry if I don't make much sense.
Hugs ((())) BB

Dejags

Dp had violent childhood but I have never seen any anger or violence in him - you are already breaking the cycle - there will be no reptition.

As to your parents - you can choose whether you want anything to do with them at all. Again DP walked away from family at 16 and has only recently contacted his two sisters again now that his dad is dead.

You are going a long way away - does DP have family there, if he is part of a strong family unit be part of his and see first hand how families are meant to behave. Certainly my DP is very close to my dad and has taken a lot of his cues from him as to how dads should behave.

You owe your parents nothing - if a friend did a fraction of what they did then you would walk away. Why should your parents be any different? Don't give them luxury of giving a s**t, there relationship with you is governed by lies, deceit and guilt. You are the one with a future, a young family, a new life - all the balls are in your court. Get counselling if you need it but most of all don't try and understand something that you will never do.

DONT WAIT FOR THEM TO CHANGE, TO APOLOGISE, TO BEG YOUR FORGIVENESS - they will never do so, they are past there sell date and ain't changing.

You however have the power to change EVERYTHING.

Love

dejags, "My dad can get very anxious if we don't report in at least once a week." I find that quite scary under the circumstances. How does his anxiety manifest itself? If you refused to speak to him what would he do? You are an adult and don't have to do what he says. Why won't he let you go?

JanH - if we don't keep in regular contact with him he can get very snappy and off - he has this tone of voice which still strikes fear in us and god forbid we were close enough - he has this look on his face which says "you will xxx, or else"...

BB - unfortunately I am not close to my brother, he has always been favoured by my parents (esp. my father) and this has caused untold problems between us. My father also never hit my brother (to my knowledge anyway) and was very young when it was happening to me. He and my father have this amazingly superficial "close" relationship - a product of creating a picture of a perfect family when my brother was in his posh school. I think it's a total farce and secretly so does he but I suppose needs must.

I really would like them to bow out of my life - they don't ever call me unless they want something, they never visit us and frankly I am just so angry (stuck record I know)....

For the record - my parents won't visit us because it upset's their dog's routine - I kid you not... we are expected to upset our 2.5 yr old sons routine ... aaaargghhh...

stop me moaning

Dump them, seems like you are getting nothing from the relationship. Get out, you dont have to put up with the s**t.

Seriously I know that it is not that easy. I have issues with my parents that I am addressing but there are lots of good things about them, they do play an important role in the kids lives.

But come on tell us what is good about them ? What do you get out of the relationship ?
Whats in it for you ?

Dejags - Sorry about your brother - I have 3 siblings and only my sister was open enough to talk to me about it.
I have 'lost contact' with my father - entirely intentionally and my life is much better for it. I feel slightly guilty about my children losing a grandfather but I am sure that they won't really notice.

An update on this.

I have finally taken some action

I have written my parents a long letter telling them how I feel and pointing out the ugly truth - what they do with it is up to them.

I have also made an appointment with a therapist to start working through this.

So here's to a fresh start...

dejags

Well done dejags.

The repercussions were so shocking I cannot even begin to describe them. My world has been rocked so much that I don't think I can even come back to mumsnet - its too much a reminder of everything I thought was good.

Thanks for all your help and advice.
Take care
dejags

Oh dejags

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Honey - please don't just go away, we must be able to help in some way.

DO you want to come out for a coffee one day this week or pop round I could 'work from home' which ever day if you need me to???

I hope that seeing the therapist will help you - if she is the one I recommended I am sure she will - she is lovely.

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Deejags, don't go. please use mumsnet for the support it can offer you. We all want to help support you in this.

Oh gosh, I know its hard and no idea of how bad the repecussions were - but just remember how bad you were feeling before writing the letter. Just remember you did nothing wrong, you are not the abuser here - you are the vicitim.

Good luck and cyber hugs.

I've only just read this thread and am so shocked at your early experience and now this, Dejags.

I'm concerned you're in some danger, your last post is very worrying. Please come back if/when you feel able.

Dejags. I hope things feel better soon. I'm sure MN'ers everywhere will want to help. Hugs to you. xx

Dejags

I hope you are reading these messages! Please please let us help you in any way that we can - even if all we are able to do is to support you through this terrible time virtually.

If you or your children are in danger then please please do something about it now!

Please try and be strong through this - they F*d up your childhood don't let then F** you up again now!!

Love and hugs