Was it abuse or am I over-reacting... (long)

[dejags]

Hello everybody,

I don't know why this has started bothering me lately but I was hoping that some impartial opinions may help settle things in my mind for me.

I had a very unstable childhood and for a while now I have been brooding about it and have been "secretly" very angry with my parents for many years.

My mother is an alchoholic who in my opinion might have a bit of bipolar disorder. My dad beat my mom for years when she was having episodes or sometimes the beatings caused episodes.

My earliest memories are of extremely violent arguing between my parents and on many, many occasions I was subject to beatings and to this day still endure verbal abuse from my mother.

A couple of examples:

When I was about 6 years old I tried to look at my dad's watch - I was desparate to learn how to tell the time and wanted him to teach me. He was in a bad mood and told me to leave him alone, when I persisted he punched me in the stomach so hard it sent me flying across the room.

When I was about 10 years old I got a phone message from my mom mixed up which resulted in a huge row between my parents - my dad came into my room in the middle of the night and dragged me through the house by my hair screaming at me that it was all my fault and that I was to look at what I had caused, he had beaten my mother and she was bleeding and bruised.

On many other occasions I tried to stop my dad beating my mom and he would turn on me.

On more occasions than I could ever remember my mom would get drunk and verbally abuse me - belittling me in front of friends. On a couple of occasions she was also violent towards me - she hit me over the head with a telephone set once.

From being tiny my moms episodes always dictated family life - she hardly ever went to any school plays, recitals, parent/teacher evenings because more often than not she was too drunk or hungover.

My brother - funnily enough was never subject to any beatings but these days he bears the brunt of my mums verbal abuse when she is having a bad time of things..

I suppose my question is this - I am secretly very, very, very angry with my parents. I wonder if I am over re-acting and that has they would have me believe, our family was just a little bit beyond the norm or if I am justified in my anger.

I am pregnant again and this has made me think long and hard about how I want my kids to be raised and how they will perceive me in years to come. Most of all I don't want to repeat the mistakes my parents made...

Opinions???

dejags,
you were abused!!! Do not belittle what you went through!!!

I have only read the first 3 postings as i have to leave to pick up my kids from school (also need to be in the right frame of mind!!) but will log on again and post later.

Look up Adult Children of Alcholics on google and or amazon.co.uk in IME you will have a lot of issues to address, face up to and make peace with. I found reading some of the books unbelievably enlighting. They made me feel slightly normal (not compared to my friends ) but made me realise that my experiences were not completely unique, they helped me understand why i behave the way i do sometimes and helped me deal with some of the enormous anger i feel for both of my parents. feel free to email me if you like but i will come back to this thread in time.
Good luck and have the courage to stand and acknowledge that THEY WERE BAD TO YOU!!!!

Echo everyone else dejags. I'm so sorry you got a bad reaction but it's not you, honestly, it's them, they were and are wrong. Your first post on this subject was so terrifying, I do hope you're not in any danger now and please let us know if we can help in any way.

Ok, i see that someone else posted adult children of alcohlics for you there is an english forum too which is groups.msn.com/AdultChildrenOfAlcoholics

Ignore the recent indecentish stuff there are some people on this site that may help you or like mums net it can just help to read other peoples postings.

I dont want to highjack your thread but suffice to say that both my parents were alcoholics, my dad died 3 weeks after ds1 was born and my mum literally and quite intentionally drank herself to death within 15 months after his death. Anger at my parents, thier parenting skills and the legacy they left me is something i know alot about!! Counselling has helped an awful lot and reading books by other children of.. i found very helpful.
Well done for not giving into your parents and allowing them ANY unsupervised contact with your child. i made huge misjudgement when my ds was only months old and still have to live with that fact that i put my mums needs, my need for her love and approval before my own childs safety. Thankfully there by the grace of g-d he was ok, but i cannot tell you how i never ever forgave her and never will. If you want to email me feel free

im pregnant again too and now how these things come to haunt you at a time like this!!

Don't go, please don't go. Nothing is unsolvable, people are here for you. It is so much easier to tell things to "virtual" people sometimes, even though you know our names. Talk it out, you have your close family, dp and kids, and that is your core of life. THEY can't hurt you now, maybe they can in words, but rise above it. There will be loads of stuff to come out but just imagine it as a hurt knee. There may be loads of yukky stuff there but someone can heal it up for you. There may always be a sensitive spot there and you'll realise that, but each day you live without fear and anger is a triumph. Every day you look at your child and laugh at what they do or say is a point to you. Please don't go, even if you just log on and say virtually nothing. It could be like one of those phone calls, "you hang up, no you hang up" etc! I sound as if I'm joking but if you want to contact me, ask tech and they can give you my number or e-mail. Take care, we'll all be waiting for you now...XXX

DeJags, don't go. I hope you are reading all the posts on this thread and realising that everyone here feels your parents have treated you wickedly, now and throughout your childhood. You have been so brave to confront them and start dealing with their abuse and we all wish you all the luck and love in the world. Even if you don't feel strong enough to post at the moment re-read this thread whenever you can and take strength from knowing you have done the right thing. Thank goodness you have your wonderful dh.

Dejags, wanted to send a cyber-hug to you. You have had the most horrific time and your last post sounds like things are totally unresolved. Whatever is going on, I wish you all the luck in the world. Pls let us know you are ok when you can.

Dejags, worried for and about you, have come from bad alcoholic parents, i may know a little of what youre feeling. Email me if you want if not big (((((hugs)))))))

Mumsnetters HELPPPP!!!!

I am reviving this one because the situation has become desparate.

After much heartbreak and soul-searching I decided to cut my parents out of my life. In order to do this I haven't given them my new home number or home address and I have changed my mobile number. I have also blocked their email addresses because I cannot be arsed to get involved in any more mud-slinging matches.

Anyway, I found out yesterday that my father has been on the phone to DH's family in South Africa. DH and I went through a really tough time last year and throughout my parents were aware of what was happening. My awful father has disclosed all what we went through to DH's family - and it makes me look like a real cow.

I sent them an email on Saturday asking them to leave DH's family alone as they had nothing to do with it.

This part of the response I got...

"Your ?little girl foot-stamping? attitude can only be attributed to one of two things, namely:-

a. Your state of mind is in some way altered due to your pregnancy ( that is assuming that you are actually pregnant), or

b. You are suffering from some psychological disorder.

In either case, I feel it necessary to impress upon you the need for urgent medical attention. Any advice you may have had to date must be of a seriously misguided nature.

Your ?bandwagon? accusations of so-called ?childhood abuse? quite frankly will not wash here. Any isolated instances of wrongs suffered during ones childhood are a normal part of family life and are essential in creating an awareness of what is right and what is wrong. You obviously didn?t grasp that concept and you cannot say that any such instances were repetitive. Had you had a small percentage of the ?abuse? suffered by your Mum and I as children, you would perhaps have cause for complaint. Despite this however, we did not proceed to intentionally devastate our Parents as a result.

Remember ?what goes around comes around?."

I cannot believe that he thinks that dragging a 10 year old girl by her hair through the house in the middle of the night and telling me that bleeding beaten mess in front of me (my mother) was my fault because I got a telephone message mixed up is normal.

I just want this evil horrible man to go away and leave us alone. Now he is trying to alienate what little "surrogate" family (DH's family) I have left from me. I am devastated.

What can I do????

Lots of hugs dejags - no advice I'm afraid.

Oh dejags [[hugs]]]. What is your relationship with your PIL like? What do they know of the abuse you experienced? Just by seeing the text of your father's email it is obvious to me that he is unpleasant and manipulative - I would hope it was equally obvious to your PIL that your father is like that. I think you should shut down the e-mail account that your father now knows your address, so he can't contact you again unless you choose to. Sorry I can't give you any better advice - but please remember that YOU ARE IN THE RIGHT, AND THEY TREATED YOU INCREDIBLY BADLY. Take care.

Hugs Dejags xxxx
Resume the cutting out of them out of your lives, no peace will come to you while they refuse to accept any blame.
You can only ask your DH to explain to his parents and ask them to keep an open mind or to similarly refuse contact with your parents, out of support for you and your family with their son, also that would be taking your DH's side too... Their son.
Your father has physically abused and is in denial, he is still bullying you know, trying to palce doubts and placing your mental health under scrutiny. You are right to keep away from them as much as possible.
Big hugs

Dejags, I'm SO sorry to read this. I've got no experience of this sort of family situation so can't offer much advice other than that it sounds as though you were absolutely right to cut your parents out of your life. Yet again your father sounds like a monster. I am hoping that your DH's parents either know what a horror your father is, or that you can both make them realise that your problems as a couple are behind you and that your father's motives were purely spiteful.
Sending you hugs. Everyone who read this original thread must have been wondering how you were doing - I'm so sad you have to put up with this.

Honey this is normal - they are trying to get to everyone as to absolve themsleves of any blame - my parents have everyone's sympathy - ooohhh look at our awful daughter cutting us out of her life when we have done nothing wrong and I thnk bollocks - I am happy without you - happier infact at not having to try and fit in with your ideals, of trying to believe that I am not the awful person you make me out to be when I know you are sooo much worse than I could ever be.

Do not let them get to you by doing this - you have come so far in the last 4 months coping with this amd making the decision to stop having contact with them to make you life better.

Last time I spoke to my father I told him that as of that moment I considered myself an orphan and if anyone asked about my parents I would say they are dead - because I wished that they were - he has told everyone this but I think if a man told me his daughter had said that I would actually have enough commen sense to think he muct have done something awful to deserve it!!

I would say to get DH to ring his parents - explain that what they were told is not the truth and give them some insught into what youhave gone through at the hands of your parents and what sort of people they are - embarrassing, not something that you really want to do but it could go in your favour in that they could when your [parents next ring say to them - I really don;t want to speak to you about this, what goes on between Dejags and her DH is their concern and for your information I realise that you told me a pack of lies about their troubles and my son has set me straight on this and all your stirring really does is reitterate what nasty twisted people you actually are.

How dreadful Dejags. What a truly awful man. Talk to your dh and ask him to ask his parents not to talk to your parents out of loyalty to him. Have no further contact with your parents. They are in denial and will only cause you more pain. I am so, so sorry that you have had this dreadful experience. Your father comes across loud and clear as an abusive manipulative bully and if your PILs have met you and liked you, I am certain this terrible man and his sinister phrases won't affect that relationship at all. You have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to be ashamed of and you can hold your head high.

Dejags, courage,we are all with you in wishing you well.If anyone is making your life unhappy don't have anything to do with them,life's too short and there are always plenty ofothers out there to value you.love boudicca

Dejags - I am so sorry. I have just read this thread and am horrified by it, and in particular by your father's response to your letter. Cut this man out of your life. He is a foul, manipulative bully, both mentally and physically abusive and deserves no further part in your life whatsoever. Do whatever it takes to ensure he cannot hurt you or your new family again. Your dh sounds great and I'm sure his family will be supportive. Lean on them, and on us, but please please don't waste a second more of your precious time, energy and emotion on this man.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh - I don't usually write posts telling people to cut family members out of their life! - but IMO all you will ever get from your parents is grief and hurt. Some people cannot be helped, will not see the error of their ways, will go on hurting you if you give them the chance. Please don't let this happen to you, your DH and your children. Loads of love and good wishes xx

Dejags, I agree with everyone, please don't think it's you, it's not, it's them but look what they did, they undermined you to the extent that you had to ask whether it was abuse or not and look at the responses you had: it most certainly was. I agree, you decided to cut all contact, stick to it and explain to dh's parents what happened and ask them to cut contact too. So sorry this has happened.

Thanks all - I know there isn't much I can do but I was so horrified by this response I just had to vent.

Unfortunately DH has lost both his mum and dad - his mum died late last year and he has just had the worst year. His Aunt and her partner are now our closest family - they are like our parents and best friends. My dad knows this and is trying to destroy the only remaining family relationship my husband has left. I am heartbroken that my father could do this to me.

Nought stranger than folk as they say...

dejags, do DH's family know any details of the abuse you went through? I mean I can understand perfectly if you never told them anything, because obviously talking about it must be incredibly painful for you, but the example you just recalled - "dragging a 10 year old girl by her hair through the house in the middle of the night and telling me that bleeding beaten mess in front of me (my mother) was my fault because I got a telephone message mixed up is normal" - cannot possibly be described as "Your ?bandwagon? accusations of so-called ?childhood abuse?" - and what does he mean by "bandwagon" anyway??? He's implying you made that up?

How did DH's family react? They must realise him ringing them like this is not a normal thing for a "loving father" to do, ie he is obviously somewhat unbalanced to put it politely - your reltionship with them is nothing to do with him and for him to try to spoil it should alert them that the best reaction is to ignore him. IYSWIM.

Hope you created a new email address specially to contact him? If not, please set up a new one for yourself immediately and send it to all your contacts and then send him a final kissoff message and don't look at his messages again.

Your DH's mother died last year, didn't she? That makes it even more unfair for your father to burden them like this. Please stay strong and don't let him get to you. Hugs.

From the sound of it, your dh's aunt and partner are made of sterner stuff. They know your dh and you. They love you for who you are. They'll see through your father's warped ravings.

Make sure that your dh talks to them about what you've been through, if you haven't already. They'll undertand that this is the sort of "dirty linen" that you don't air willingly - and that you hadn't wanted to drag them in to this. They will appreciate the love and respect that you have for them in seeing them as your "real" family.

"True" families don't judge. My own mum cam from a dysfunctional family (although NOTHING like yours) and often said that her MIL (my granny) was her favourite relative. The thing about granny was that she never judged others - she just loved them - and was there when she was needed. I'm sure your aunt and her dp will be the same for you. My mum was much more upset when she died last year than she had been when her own mother died.

I don't know the detail of the e-mail from your father, but if necessary you could share it with your aunt-in law and her partner - together with an explanation of the background. That would demonstrate to them in black and white what you have had to deal with.

It is NOT normal for anyone to be exposed to violence and cannot be brushed away as "isolated instances of wrongs suffered during ones childhood are a normal part of family life and are essential in creating an awareness of what is right and what is wrong". Your NEW family will see that for what it is - preposterous and evidence of your FATHER'S lack of grasp of the reality of waht is acceptable and normal.

Your dad's little jibe about your pregnancy just makes HIM look small.

You need to trust your aunt-in-law (I am tempted just to say "aunt" - as she sounds like the sort of relative your deserve) and her partner to give your love you your deserve.

Get on with YOR life. Surround yourself with people who love you. Cut out those that don't. Look forward to your new baby, your new life and living close to a family who loves you for who you are.

{{Hugs{}}}

Thanks again everyone, it means a lot that you responded.

I am 100% certain that no matter what my father tells DH's family that they won't judge. I just feel awful that they need to be involved on any level. I am trying to hard to live an honest and uncluttered life and my fathers actions are just making this impossible. This email from him has left me feeling violated and questioning whether or not I am indeed mad and he is sane.

DH's family love my dad - all they have ever seen is the "painted" version of my father. He portrays himself as generous, loving and beyond reproach - when indeed he is completely the opposite. I don't want to sink to his level by telling them anything - they know that things really bad and that I no longer speak to my father. They are taking the tack that they refuse to be involved. After all the heartache the family have been through in the last year - losing my MIL amongst other things I just hate the fact that he can't leave me alone and wish I could make him.

Twinkie - I know how you feel when you say you wish your father was dead. I have always maintained that it's an awful thing to say about anybody - but I would live so much more peacefully knowing that he would never be able to manipulate or frighten me again.

I am starting to wonder if I have any legal means of forcing him to back off? any ideas?

Why is it our parents find it so hard to admit what they did to us as children was wrong?

You have done the best thing by cutting them out of your life if they are incapable of talking through this reasonably with you. Nothing they did can be changed, it is just a shame they can't apologise.

My relationship with my Mum has fallen apart, recently, and they are not coming to my wedding, even though I haven't actually done anything wrong. It is sad, but they have made their decision, so there is nothing else I can do. I have tried to make amends, but they are not interested. Sometimes you have to ignore the 'Life is too short' comments, and break the ties for good.

dejags, could you possibly take out an injunction against him? I've no idea what grounds you need but he is certainly harassing you. Nobody has to communicate with anybody if they don't want to, surely? Ring or visit your CAB! (And save that horrible email to show them even if you'd rather destroy it.)

Dejags - where are you all based - is it that you are in SA, in-laws are in SA, and your parents are UK? Could your in-laws put a call bar on your parents number? so sorry you are going through all this. Since your dad has pushed the issue by contacting your in-laws, it wouldn't be unfair of you to let your in-laws know what he is really like - but only you will know if you are ready to tell other people yet. Don't be ashamed of how your parents have treated you - its all part of the pattern of control by your dad - to follow the white elephant analogy - like saying if you tell anybody about the white elephant in the living room, everybody will laugh at you/nobody will like you.

Dejags, your father is being a coward blaming the fact that you were ill-treated on the fact that he was abused as a child too, and saying you have nothing to complain about compared to him. That is no excuse. Your father is contacting DH's family becuase that is the only way he has left to get at you. Once he realises that that has failed, he will have no other way of bullying you.

You sound like a wonderful person to have come through what you have. I don't have anything else to add to the wonderful advice of other MNs, but please look forwards to your life with your DH and new baby and find a way to put all these issues to rest, via counselling or another means. Hugs xx