Moving from being the OW to being his girlfriend...

[beingmyself]

I've got my flameproof suit on and will start by saying I know being in an affair is a selfish and cruel thing to do. I did it. He did it. We decided we wanted to be together so after having an affair for several months we both left our spouses. He has moved out and so has my h.
We are not living together though and are not intending to for a while. We are also still secret and will remain so for some time.

Is anyone who has been there brave enough to come and talk to me about the highs and lows of finally getting to be together? I knew it would continue to be a rollercoaster and would really appreciate anyone who's willing to talk about it with me to do so here or to PM me!

Thanks

OP you know nothing about your partner's marriage, or his ex-wife's reaction to it. All you know is what you've been told. The only thing you can testify to accurately is that your partner had an affair and lied to her.

If however she is angry, sad and devastated, at least some of that is probably being made worse by your partner continuing to lie to her about why he left her. If she has been left with two children under 5 and the bulk of the childcare too, I'm sure she is very angry. For him to have found the time to meet up with you for the last few months must have made serious dents in the time he's had to pull his weight at home, too. In her shoes, I think I'd be furious too.

Legally it makes no difference to residence or his contact with the children, that he had an affair. Just as your ex-husband wouldn't be able to deny you residence or contact with the children if he knew the truth. Being practical, it might make your partner's contact with such small children a bit more difficult in the short term if his exwife chose to restrict contact, but he will need a residence order just like many other parents. However, you have no evidence that his wife is 'using the children' and even if she's threatening to, that is likely to change as she starts to recover from her shock and starts realising that your partner needs to step up and be a proper father caring for his children single-handedly, giving her a break- and the children the benefit of spending time with Dad alone.

WRT partners being told the truth, this isn't gendered and it's rather silly to infer that women might want the truth more than men. This is about individuals.

But moreover, as lots of people have pointed out over and over again, this is not just about telling the truth to ex-partners. It's about being honest with everyone and therefore not living a lie for the rest of your lives- with your children, your respective parents, your friends and also any future friends you make as a couple. If you haven't told your own parents and friends the truth about this for example, why is that?

Interesting that the only (?) man to post here said he didn't want to know. I have a male friend who suspected his ex W had affairs but he didn't want to know either. In the end he left her but her possible dalliances were not remotely the reason behind the split.

I think it may well be possible for this to be more gender-specific than people think- men are often more able to compartmentalise (I think this is proved by research). They are often much keener to avoid talking about relationships and 'issues' and I can see that many men would prefer not to know, as it's a huge ego blow.

When couples split because one has found someone else most, in my experience, have a token period of living separately - just to 'save face' and protect the feelings of their ex, then it's left to speculation whether the relationships overlapped.

If I were the OP I'd do what was kindest to my ex- if he was the sort who was wanting to know- and asking questions, saying he wants the truth at any price to his feelings- that's her lead.

Two anecdotes are not data.

Any 'research' that attempted to 'prove' that men are more easily able to compartmentalise than women would be laughed out of town.

People are individuals and what people believe about the differences between men and women are just opinions, not proof.

OP, how do you know the ex knew the marriage was coming to an end?

leaven- I didn't post that lightly- the comment about compartmentalising. It wasn't for one minute based on 2 anecdotes- I didn't link the 2 comments if you read carefully.

Do some of your own research and I think you'll find there IS evidence. My work/training involves psychology and although I can't link to the evidence just now, it is out there.

It's ONE reason why SOME men can find it easier to have affairs- W in one box, OW in another.

Sorry I just can't take posts like that seriously MissBoPeep. It's just your opinion and you're entitled to it. As for My work/training involves psychology like I said before about posters claiming expertise, you could be a lorry driver or unemployed for all we know . In any case, none of it has got anything much to do with the OP's issues.

Having read the other thread again and seeing some of the OP's posts on this one about her ex-husband's apparent agreement to the split, I think other posters (and the OP now herself) were right to raise the possibility that he had started an affair himself. If true, that's got nothing to do with compartmentalising and more to do with two people lying to eachother.

But he's only part of the story. There are all the other people in the OP's life who are being lied to- and all the people in her partner's life too.

This isn't just about lies to ex-partners.

OP how are you going to keep this relationship secret whilst at the same time making sure you both put the effort in to make it survive?

For instance can you even go to the shops together without possibly being seen? Presume you have to wait until when the children aren't with you before you can even be together? Have you read the step parenting boards? There are lots of mums and dads arguing over contact/parenting often for petty reasons for years/decades!

You sound almost ashamed, or your OH does for what has happened? Does he have huge guilt? Ok so your marriage ended fairly well, your ex husband saw no future in it. Do you think your DP may think he could possibly have tried harder? I think its also a bit cheap to keep blaming everything on his ex. He was having an affair after all she probably had her suspicions and didn't want to let him out of his sight, she probably already knows more than both you realise.

Bopeep, another word for compartmentalising is 'splitting'. I think it describes it better.

Very very primitive psychopathology.

I would have loved to have been able to deal with my part to play in our marriage, Witch. But that would have involved him acknowledging the issues I brought up, empathising with my need to work towards a better outcome, and responding to my attempts to connect.

I eventually gave up and withdrew, and he complained along with ardent devotions to OW that 'I dont' love my wife, she doesn't care about me'.

Now, OW: a co-worker, dressed and groomed lovely for work (it makes NO difference whether I am a size 6 or 14, I have tried), never given birth so is nice and tight, gazes at him admiringly and doesn't talk about the roof/guttering/car repairs and bills but tells him what a WONDERFUL boss and executive he is. I am trying to live in the real world, and he doesn't want to. He does, however, want me to stay married to him and keep the house/children etc going.

Could you let me know how any of the above is my fault? And how I was supposed to change it?

I believe my X was having/had an affair.

I got an anonymous letter (can you believe it?), I think it written by her, her motive being I would throw him out? He laughed it off, said it was someone at work who was trying to make trouble for him and was jealous of his success. I didn't believe him then and I don't believe him now. He always denied despite starting to see her after he left.

Would it have made any difference to me to know for definate. No.

I would have just liked to know I was right, it wouldn't have helped with the marriage or the aftermath. She wasn't the reason we split up, maybe the catalyst, and I thank her for that.

They are not together now BTW.

But weren't you seeing someone else yourself Penelope? At least that's the impression you gave on the other thread we were on?

Like (possibly) the OP's husband's situation, I'd imagine that makes quite a difference.

Yes after all this had happened, when he said he wasn't to split, he didn't love me and wanted to sell the house ( my house as it happens but he still ended up with half). We went for counselling but he wouldn't acknowledge any of his EA, even when the counsellor said "this is domestic abuse" Nd that I had to have a strategy to get out of his way when he started.

So the marriage was in its death throws when I started to see my now DH, but all that did was give X a chance to make out that everything was my fault and he was the injured party and totally blameless. And still does to Nyone who will listen.

By the way, when a divorcing couple with children go for mediation, if one party is lying/withholding, then that mediation - which is for the sake of the children as much as anything else - is going to be compromised, surely?

I went to voluntary mediation with my ExH and he was lying his face off throughout about his affair. I believe such mediation will now be compulsory in some circumstances?

The problem for my ExH was that the Big Lie started to snowball.

Penelope I had to learn from MN that any counselling or mediation for couples shouldn't happen where there is any sort of abuse going on.

The mediation session I went to with lying, manipulating ExH was one of the single most vile experiences of my life.

(But I still think seeing another person is a poor exit strategy.)

lineRunner I didn't realise it was EA until she pointed it out. It seemed so obvious then, I felt a prize idiot. She said it was how I managed my life (putting up with it, walking on eggshells etc).

I accept what you say about my exit strategy now but at the time I didn't see it like that. I'll be slated for saying that it just happened. But it did, it evolved, I didn't set out to have an affair - butnI'm glad I did. We are very happy, this relationship feels right for both of us.

Its disgusting to keep this from your ex, he and your om's wife should get checked for STD's.

Thanks for answering Penelope. Like I said, I think it must make such a difference if a person's got secrets of his/her own.

I was also thinking about what you were saying about your ex-husband's emotional abuse, which I'm sorry to hear about. I'd guess you'd never have left your children with him and gone off with your OM?

Yet here we have a man (the OP's partner) who claims his wife is emotionally abusive, but who has left his very young children with her and as far as we can tell, appears not to be intending to go for full residence.

Funny that.

Dear God no, I would never have left them with him.

This thread has made me think though, about the decisions we make at the time. Not all those decisions turn out to be wise do they?

I also think that relationship splits bring out the worst in some people (I include myself in that). I wish I would have had the guts to get out before things really went sour but that's with the gift of hindsight and knowing what I know now, knowing it wasn't as bad as I envisaged it would be. I didn't work at the time and X had a good job. But being poor was better than than being with him, if I'd have known what it felt like once we were on our own, I would have done something long before but I was a complete coward.

lunar - there is no need for anyone to get checked for stds. Of that I am sure.

To be clear his w has always given him a difficult time for seeing friends or having any life independent from her.

It was me who realised she was EA towards him through reading threads on this board. He thought she was 'normal' and that all women were like that.

I know I only have his account of his marriage to go on but I believe and trust him 100%.

I do have huge empathy for his w in the fact her marriage will end against her wishes. He wanted 50/50 with the kids but she doesn't want him to have that. Says its painful enough splitting up the family without him "taking away her children half the week". I have massive sympathy for this too. He has pretty much asked her what she wants to do by the children and said he will not contest if it's reasonable. So he hasn't upped and left her with the kids.

There are things she says and does which I struggle with but then I am very different from her.

Maybe my h has met someone - I don't think so but time will tell.

I think even though it will be secret with me and my new partner we can still work on the relationship. In fact we both work hard at it already. It not all work of course but as we are getting things off the ground in less than ideal circumstances there are issues which need addressing, and we do that very well.

I suppose time will tell whether we did the right thing but we only get one life.

Re her being EA and the kids... Partner and I are both worried about that but he is concerned that his w will really go off the boil if he tries to get more time with the children than she wants. I keep wavering between thinking she is (a) a mum who is hurting and upset and saying things she shouldn't through lack of thought and (b) a mum who will damage her children's emotional well being long term... But then I realise theyre not my children so shouldn't be my concern, but of course I am massively concerned about them. Everytime he tries to talk to his w about this she just flips and cries and hurls abuse at him for leaving. It's tough, I don't know whether to get involved or not.

So he hasn't upped and left her with the kids.

Hasn't he?

Leaving the house for another woman and lying about why he did it...Sounds exactly like he's upped and left her with the kids.

this just gets more and more ridiculous and I hope anyone planning to wreck another family's life by having an affair and reading this will stop and think first about what they are about to embark on. Infidelity is the worst thing you can inflict on another family.

OP The bottom line is if she is bonkers then he shouldn't be leaving the DCs with her.

But he is leaving the DCs with her, and she isn't bonkers.

I think that's the second time you have made a point of saying that you trust him '100%'.

I wish you all the luck in the world.

But what a puzzling statement to make.

As others have said, the only thing you actually KNOW about this man at the deepest level of his personality is that he is a liar.

He may be a good man in many ways - you don't really know that yet, you don't have sufficient history with him - but the one thing you do definitely know, from the one 'situation' you have seen him deal with so far - is that he is able to lie, again and again, to the person he loved and married.

Right now, you and he are loved up.

He felt like that about his wife, once. All that amazing stuff... he was like that with her. More than that, they decided it was special enough to get married, and make it permanent. More even than that, he's gone through the experience of having children with her. Nothing tops that, really.

And yet now that he feels differently, having had all that between them doesn't inspire him to even pay her the compliment of not cheating on her and lying to her about the reason all that history has come to an end.

Maybe it's right that their relationship is ended - that's not the point. Maybe she treated him badly too. You'll never know that.

But when you say 'He'd never treat me badly - he wouldn't do x or y' - you are 100% wrong.

He may not, but he absolutely could treat a once much-loved partner extremely badly, and he has. He is.

He cannot be trusted and you would be a fool to trust him. Trusting him is not logical.

I guess you don't want to hear that, as you have trodden the same path. You laughed and loved with your H once the way you do with your OM now, presumably. Now you are lying to him. At some point in the future, you may do the same to your OM.

Anyway. You asked about the highs and lows. I don't know first hand, but I'd say an important part of getting to grips with a relationship that starts this way is to be brave enough to face that unpleasant little truth right in the face. You KNOW he is able to cheat and lie. He could lie to his once-much-loved wife - ergo, he can lie to you. More than that, he's likely to have lied to you already, because another thing you can say about a cheater is that they tend to take the easy way out. He may be right about the way his wife treated him, but sadly it's really very possible that it's another lie to smooth the path, both practically and within his own head.

In the same way, you are now lying to yourself in so many ways about how you have treated your children. Both of you could have finished your respective relationships before starting to see each other, which would have been the right thing to do, and easier and better all round for all the children and your once-loved spouses. But you didn't, because you put yourselves first. But you will lie and lie and lie about the efects of that on your children, to each other and yourselves.

So. It's hard not to see you as foolish when you go on about 'trusting him 100%'. When you parrot the things he's told you as if they are facts. Continue to do that and you may come very unstuck. I hope things work out for you.

OP, the more you write, the worse you sound.