Ending a Ten and a Half year affair

[Gehj]

Im unable to write full background for fear of being recognised but the crux of the problem remains the same... unbelievably I have been having an affair for the above time and it remains as passionate and intense today as it did on day one. The problem... I need to leave because I want a new life of my own as I know he does not have the strength, courage or wherewithal to leave his family. His children are now aged 18-21, his elderly mother (who lost her husband recently) has now come to live with him and he is the prime carer. I know it was morally wrong to become involved with a married man but the attraction was strong and I didn't for one moment, think it would span out 10years!!! How do I find the strength to leave a relationship that provides me with everything that a woman would relish except commitment! i.e love, companionship, support, fun and anything that a newlywed would be proud of. The physical side is as passionate as if we just met. How do I take steps to leave?? I have tried many times and each time we hurt each other, miss what we have and go back. WWYD apart from the suggestion of moving town and that is not feasible as I have children who are at college! He does not want me to leave which makes it all the more difficult.

[Boomba]

The thing I find hardest to comprehend about you is that you are a parent of 4, and a teacher?....you seem to have no grasp of setting am example/ moral guidance/integrity

'being suprised by your mutual attraction', and 'not

[Gehj]

Boomba thank you for your late post. I have clearly identified I have some very serious issues to deal with via Counselling but I don't feel my profession or anyone elses for that matter has any bearing on whether they would/wouldn't engage in an affair. Of course my (all) children are of the utmost importance but whether I have one or four is of no consequence. I said I work in education and teach but to clarify, I am not a teacher.

[mathanxiety]

Missbopeep -- So just a short one from me. I believe to the contrary- that sometimes the words people use are not accurate. I know people in RL who post on various forums on MN and they've confided how they become really annoyed ( off forum) because posters misread , misinterpret, and misunderstand their posts, and then they have to keep going back, saying 'I didn't mean that, I meant this.'

So in other words, you believe in reading between the lines? All anyone knows of anyone on MN is the precise words they use. Words are never random, and those people who say 'I didn't mean that, I meant this...' are often people who are deluding themselves over something, and of course it's not obvious to them but it is the thing that hits readers right between the eyes. If more than one person misreads, misinterprets or misunderstands someone's OP then I think the poster should put on her thinking cap.

Gehj -- I begged my late Mother to leave my Father due to his Emotional and Physical abuse but she didn't have the strength to do so. As a result of my upbringing, I vowed no man would ever treat me that way. But.... I did allow my husband to be Emotionally abusive towards me during the four short years we were married because I actually didn't recognise it at the time!
You have been abused by your BF for ten years too. He used you. It seems you have been conditioned well by your family of origin.

If you teach English then you would know that you didn't use a metaphor in your OP. Even if you don't teach English you would know that.

the excuses and lies we were a part of -
You should use the active voice when referring to excuses and lies. You weren't 'a part of' excuses and lies that were floating around in the air. What lies did you personally tell and what truth did you personally not tell? (and same for excuses). A relationship that involves lying and excusing really is a shambolic one. You need to accept your role in the lying and the excuse-making. It will hurt when you realise how much of a ride you were taken on and it will hurt when you start to explore why you allowed this, and you may not like the person you see in the mirror when you start working on this, but you need to do this and resolve never to be that person again.

You're not a leaf blowing in the wind here, helpless when faced with the question 'what is the right thing to do?' (not 'what is right for me here, and now?'). There is nothing in your upbringing or in your marriage that entitled you to do what you have done.

What your BF wants wrt leaving/moving is not relevant here. For your own emotional health you have to stop this relationship and go cold turkey. However you arrange this you really have to do it without regard for the wishes of profoundly selfish other people.

[mathanxiety]

Your post of Thu 27-Jun-13 10:53:57 hints that you are aware that you are a moral actor and have elements of your decision making process to identify and remedy -- why I have behaved without showing empathy and having no moral compass

..but then your Thu 27-Jun-13 14:30:42 post seems to say that there may have been mitigating circumstances (the EA business and how you vowed never to let it happen again -- did you see yourself as entitled to the happiness this man dangled before you?)

The post of Thu 27-Jun-13 11:17:05 backtracks again and also restricts the destruction and emotional damage to the pair of you, without any mention of the fallout that others may have experienced. ^Despite the reasons being wrong why we were together, and the hurt we caused to others, and the excuses and lies we were a part of - it does not wipe out the last ten years and turn what we had into something shambolic.
It is only when one chooses to LEAVE the relationship, that then it can be viewed as being destructive and emotionally damaging to us both.^

I wonder if you are addicted to the drama of being caught up in impossible situations too? You can't move because of your children, and for some reason the wish of the BF that you not move is also playing a part in your inability to draw a line under it all in decisive fashion. Do you see yourself as some sort of a cork bobbing along in the tide, deep down? A tragic figure?

[Wellwobbly]

Wise, experienced Math - you're lovely, you are. [heart]

If OP can't really afford counselling, she will find a lot of help and support in the circle of - women who run with wolves!

We kick ass, but we support courage very much.

[missbopeep]

Math

I think it's clear that you misunderstood my post.
When I said that people in RL who use this forum, say sometimes their posts are mis interpreted, I was NOT saying that I read between the lines. I don't know how you make that leap . I was in fact making the opposite point- that some posters read inaccurately, and assume things, ( 2+2 = 5) then OPs have to come back and add clarity... and so it goes on.... and on... and on.....

and the OP here made it clear she is not a teacher- which is maybe a good example of the above ( education=teacher= English teacher??- errrr no.)
Do you think you could be being a little pedantic about picking her up on the no-metaphor? I could have pointed that out ages back but felt it was not really a kind or helpful point to make.

I think it's a real shame that in this Relationship forum there is far too much bitchiness when someone doesn't like another poster's comments- and makes personal attacks.

I really do wonder if they'd react like this in real life, in conversation ? Or if the anonymity afforded here is to blame.

It's possible to have differing views without resorting to insults, and needing to be 'always right'.

I've drawn MNHQ attention to what I perceive as bullying here- I am game for arguing a point but I take a dim view of being asked to shut up and leave a thread just because someone thinks their opinion is the right one and mine isn't- when they have no bloody idea of my life, my experiences, my qualifications etc which I don't feel the need to reveal to justify my posts.

[springytats]

It's possible to have differing views without resorting to insults

then stop doing it, Bo. It is you who has introduced attacks and insults. Others are expressing their opinion, you have attacked.

Of course you have a right to your opinion, the same as everyone else here. But you are attacking posters - look back through your posts.

fwiw, I agree with that wise owl, math.

[Boomba]

Wüst iean Os, yous habe a lot pd expwriemce AnE evidence....yous know this affair isnt ok for your Kids. But you have been doing it for 10 years.

You have disconnected from reality

[springytats]

As for counselling, some things are an essential, not an add-on. eg people go on hol, build a new extension, buy a good car etc., then say they 'can't afford' counselling. Ditch the extension, pay for your functional future. There's clearly a need here re the OP (speaking as one who has had years of therapy for similarly fucked-up start in life).

[Wellwobbly]

'then stop doing it, Bo'.

Bo, I also made the mistake you are making when first coming to MN (if that is any comfort).

I got a good kicking, and learned that when I stopped intellectualising (telling people) and only spoke about my own experience that I owned, MN gets remarkably kind.

It was a learning curve I am very grateful for.

[ChippingInWiredOnCoffee]

In education but not a teacher? I think you are a wanna-be writer, your posts are very calculated, though it's almost as though english isn't your first language... detached and unusal phrasing at times. All very odd.

[JulieMumsnet]

Morning,

We know that this is an emotive subject and upsetting for some of you but if you could bear our talk guidelines in mind before you post, that would be grand.

MNHQ.

[confusedmuch]

wow, still at it then!

ok some notes:

Bo you are getting scrappy and it is boring, stop it, disagreement is allowed - rabid terrier like attachment to percieved personal slights on an internet forum is a waste of time and decidedly unhealthy.

op is definately not a writer (seriously?!?) but seems to be making good use of cut and paste. One would hope that she intends to follow through this great enlightenment with serious ongoing professional help in rl and is not simply deciding that a mn thread can repair her warped view in the space of a week!

op do you know that mm is an abbreviation of Married Man? (not my man or anything else you think fits) - just wondered.

In case that all seems a bit mean (and forgive me for not embracing op's sudden epiphany wholeheartedly), I do hope that the op is beginning to recognise how much work she is going to have to do to improve her life and the influence she has on those around her. Despite what is discussed here the reality is that nc and/or full disclosure will end the affair but if the op wants a meaningful connection with herself and the rest of humanity in future then she is on the start line. Let's hope she has the stamina to stay the course. Good luck op.

[Gehj]

Math I 'think' I mentioned (it feels a lifetime ago now) that this was my first time ever on a forum, that I've never contacted ANY site at all in my life so I was not truly aware of what is the norm when posting etc. Perhaps I should have read the helpful hints that I've since discovered before I posted. I have had to read up on the Acronyms more than once!!

I'm grateful for missbopeeps assistance in helping me explain i.e when posting I didn't think for one minute if I never clarified 'every' point, it would be misconstrued or misunderstood. I understand that now and how easy it is for the reader to make assumptions.

I don't wish to provoke posts relating to my profession or any profession for that matter. I don't think its relevant to the problem, except to say, it has been suggested on this thread that perhaps she is a writer, she is articulate she writes like an ad copy....

I didn't think for one minute I would be judged on my choice of words or if I made a grammatical error, someone would be so pedantic as to correct me on it. Thank you to those who didn't

I rather think your own choice of words needs to be addressed.

Words are never random, and those people who say 'I didn't mean that, I meant this...' are often people who are deluding themselves over something, and of course it's not obvious to them but it is the thing that hits readers right between the eyes

....deluding themselves.. I think your being extremely harsh as people who post, especially those for the first time like myself, may not be completely rational in their thoughts due to being distressed. (No, I didn't have feelings of distress when posting but certainly feelings of confusion).

But I digress....

[Gehj]

Thank you confusedmuch FWIW, I'm not any of those things that have been suggested. I am an ordinary Joe Bloggs, who earns an average wage, who doesn't invite drama and leads, what I think, a fairly sedate life. In fact of all my friends, I'm the one with the least drama.

I think the importance of this thread is not the pedantics but the direction in which it led me to and that is what I will take with me.

[Gehj]

Math* Do you see yourself as some sort of a cork bobbing along in the tide, deep down? A tragic figure?

If I thought the above and recognised the signs of EA, then surely I would have removed myself from the situation earlier??

Are you suggesting, intimating or making an opinion (choose whatever fits), that I KNEW I was in an EA relationship and enjoyed the drama?

If someone were to ask me what major upheavals I've experienced in my life - I would say two! My divorce and the loss of my cherished Mother. Does that indicate drama to you?

I have explained by reading articles and yes, defining words such as:

addictive relationships
self-split affairs
compartmentalising
pragmatism

.... these explain clearly WHY I behaved like I have (it doesn't EXCUSE my behaviour). It explains WHY I had no 'moral compass' and yes, it mentions that people who are in addictive relationships live in their own bubble in exclusion to all others.

More importantly, these articles have said, that people in addictive relationships have low self-worth, lack self-esteem...

I have never for one moment at any time in my life, believed I was that person!

I have held down two very successful careers, enjoy excellent working and social relationships. I am able to speak to people at the drop of a hat or in new and unfamiliar circumstances. Does that sound like someone who would describe themselves as having low-self esteem?

[Gehj]

Jeez, no wonder I'm confused and yes, I think we all agree on one thing for sure.... I definitely need counselling .

[springytats]

We're talking long-haul counselling here, not 6 or 8 weeks. Otherwise you'll learn a whole new set of mental skills - and you have proved you are proficient at those - and slot them into your database without denting your self-assurance one bit; probably the contrary.

You have had a taste of realising that things aren't the way you thought... please go with that uncomfortableness . You're on to something with it. To think you have life sewn up 1,2,3, everything in its place, is to be way off the mark. I could guess that your self-assurance is essentially brittle - but that is the job of a therapist to work with you and to create a safe place for you to explore what is going on with you. That takes time.

What you wrote in your OP, new or not, revealed very clearly who you were and where you were coming from, your priorities. There was no accident in the wording you chose; had nothing to do with you being a novice. If anything - and to contradict myself - your being a novice meant you hadn't learnt the skills to hide your true thoughts and feelings.

[Gehj]

Gosh! Now I am more confused! I have always been a 'a spade is a spade' sort of person and very forthright in my thoughts but I hadn't actually realised that people might post anything other than what is TRUE!

I don't understand why people would seek for help and advice and not reveal their true thoughts and feelings as surely the masking of this will result in them not getting the right advice??

I think I should add being naive to my list .

[mathanxiety]

Well let's say a cork bobbing along on a sea of delirious happiness? A man drifted into your life somehow and swept you along? With no hint of abuse whatsoever? What you described in your OP sounds (apart from ad copy) as if you feel you had won the relationship jackpot or some fairy godmother had waved a magic wand. Maybe not so much a tragic figure in the sense of having a bad end or having terrible things happen to you as one to whom things just happened (whether good or bad) while you were not actually very conscious of them, not seeing what was going on until afterwards, with your perceptions and feelings not front and centre? What I am getting at here is that you seem to be quite passive when in a relationship. A hostage to Luv?

You're doing a bit of backward reasoning wrt self esteem. 'If I have a career then I must have healthy self esteem' is not necessarily axiomatic.

[springytats]

I can relate to the black and white way of approaching life. I come from a disordered, dysfunctional, toxic home - and perhaps carving out sureties is a way of surviving that home life. Howeve,r we are adults now and no longer at the mercy of our primary caregivers. We can afford to relax rigid perceptions (and conclusions) and explore some of the complexities.

It's not so easy to relax rigid thinking, though, if your primary mental and emotional (and for some people, physical) survival depended on them. It's hard to unlearn. That's what therapy is for - to challenge things, expose/unearth things, explore complexities and agree that things aren't necessarily straightforward and there aren't necessarily solid conclusions.

As for what you wrote in your OP - it was a gift, tbf, as nothing was hidden. However, you were saying (and others too) that you hadn't meant precisely what you wrote, that there were possible nuances. I disagree and believe you wrote exactly what you meant.

[springytats]

depended on it, sorry. Not depended on them ie our survival depended on rigid thinking (to make sense of the world?)

[Leavenheath]

What Springy means (I imagine) is that it's possible to be honest and truthful about your feelings and beliefs, while having some empathy for the people who are going to read your words. You didn't appear to use any filter in what you wrote. If you write on a forum where you know the readers may have experienced severe trauma because of the behaviour you are upholding, it's common sense to use discretion and tact in the messages you communicate.

Secondly, you need to become a bit more circumspect and worldly wise about using a forum where people can namechange and reinvent themselves. Posters don't always tell the truth about why they hold the views that they do and so their agenda is unclear. You can't compel people to tell the truth and it's everyone's right on this site to namechange- I've done it regularly, mainly because I like dipping in and out and I don't need to be recognised as a regular name. I do trust posters like Math and some other names who've been here for years, more than I do names that I don't recognise. Plus I really admire her posts and the intelligence and wisdom in them .

I've learnt over many years of being here and on other forums to keep an open mind about why posters are espousing certain views. Sometimes I recognise namechangers too because their posting style is so unmistakeable and that also helps to see the undisclosed agendas.

The internet and site savviness is easily overcome. The apparent inability to have empathy is something that's best addressed in counselling or with the help of a professional psychologist who is trained to diagnose personality disorders. I'm not altogether surprised that various posters have expressed concerns about disorders such as narcissism because of the views you've expressed and the way you've put those views across, but only a RL professional can diagnose and treat that.

[springytats]

Good points Leaven but that wasn't what I was getting at. I was disagreeing with posters (including the OP, I think) who say that people can post, use words/phrases, they don't quite mean. imo, what OP wrote was exactly where she was coming from on this. ie she was truthful and, in being, revealed precisely her position.

I'm not sure that introducing labels such as personality disorders or narcissism is helpful (despite OP crashing onto a site espousing beliefs, with all flags flying, that would have caused hurt and outrage). We are all 'personality disordered' or 'narcissistic' to a degree, and toxic primary conditioning can accentuate those characteristics imo. I am wary of introducing labels that may frighten someone in a fragile and exposed place.

[springytats]

eg OP's willingness to embrace difficult and challenging facts about her behaviour (and post about it at length) suggests she isn't, eg, a narcissist. Narcissists don't do that. (Ever.)