Finding a nice single man?

[Impossibleornot]

I'm a regular who has name changed and I am ready for the flaming that I will no doubt get

I have read so many threads on here from OW and about OW that suggest they go and find themselves a single man and leave the MM alone.

Ive been seeing a MM for 18 months. I love him, he loves me. We have an understanding, he wont leave his wife (he loves her and their children) and I dont want a full time relationship as I have children and I dont want to bring another man into their lives, they already have a Dad.

Because I know that we cannot be together I have never closed my eyes to the option of meeting someone else. Oh and I have met plenty of men, problem is, they are all complete nobs!! In 4 years of being single I have never met an available man who dos not have something wrong with him.

So in summary, I KNOW I shouldnt be seeing a MM, but my alternative is to be single (I hate being single, I need to kiss and cuddle someone, I feel desperately lonely when I dont have someone) or to go for 'second best' in which case I might as well have stayed unhappily married as my EX is more normal than most of the blokes I meet.

I am probably trying to justify myself, which is nice and easy on an anonymous forum, but how on earth do people meet nice men? do they even exist?

Thanks for kind thoughts - always a relief not to get a flaming!

I sometimes stalk SolidGoldBrass for her posts on marriage and why it exists - very refreshing, honest and certainly made me take a sharp look at the world around me.

What is the point on living on a few crumbs of love that this married man has deigned to give you. Surely you are worth more than dating a cheat and a liar.

Impossibleornot, I think that that need for companionship that I'd also definitely admit to having could only be filled by a man I could TALK to, really really talk to very honestly.

Is it possible that hiding your real self from him is just another effort?

Does the time spent with him really recharge you? Maybe it does because I guess playing the part of somebody confident, sorted, independent, insouciant and interesting is energising??! Maybe it is that that you can't give up.

Acting a really good part (which is just a version of you) is probably comforting in the short term but ultimately it's a façade that will drain you and exacerbate the loneliness.

Sincere apologies if I'm totally barking up the wrong tree here.

Another you are absolutely right. Acting and being someone that I am not and can never be full time, makes me feel alive, normal, sexy and loved !!

Behind closed doors I dont feel like any of those things. A tiny part of me thinks that if I could find someone just like MM but not married, then I could be that person all the time.

Its like he gives me fuel to carry on, if that makes sense?

Yes, there is a shortage of nice single men. I am in my late 30s, and the vast majority of single men my age are single for a reason. Luckily I enjoy being single, because I don't see that ending any time soon.

As I think blackbird said, there is also a shortage of nice married men. I know loads of women who put up with lazy, grumpy, childish men.

I don't think I would ever have an affair with a married man. But I can't understand the MN attitude towards the OW. Surely it's the MM who deserves the flaming?

What an interesting thread.

I think it's understandable to want to pair-bond and have a romantic and sexual relationship and I don't think women should be sneered at for wanting a regular sex life within an established relationship. It shouldn't be 'uncool' to admit to being fed up of singledom or to say that a FWB arrangement isn't something that's wanted, if that's how individual women feel.

But coming to your particular issues OP, it seems logical and obvious to me that you're unlikely to be in the right frame of mind to meet the sort of bloke you want if you're emotionally involved elsewhere (you say you 'love' the MM), if you're playing a part and hiding your true self from people, if you've got a mental health issue and you find meeting new people difficult as soon as you're out of your comfort zone (e.g. holidays).

All of those things are real, tangible barriers to meeting 'nice single men' aren't they?

I also think there have been a few posts which assume that if a bloke was put off by you having been an OW, this would be hypocritical of a man especially to judge you (the inference being that men will always have behaved badly themselves at some point) or that this would mean he was 'Victorian' in his values. That seems quite man-hating to me. My DB was put off a serious relationship with a woman for this reason (and others) not because he was judgemental or Victorian, but because he saw it as a red flag that the woman concerned didn't particularly value fidelity and because he realised it was part of a pattern of general selfishness in his new girlfriend. She was fairly unabashed by her previous actions though and didn't appear to have any regrets, apart from that the MM had dumped her and hadn't left his wife and kids for her .

So that might be yet another barrier, but that depends I think on your actions now. This relationship with the MM is going nowhere and is likely to lead to you stagnating, not growing. If you're at heart a decent person, it won't sit right with you for much longer that you're hurting another woman and her family just to prop your life up. But if you don't get out of this relationship for altruistic reasons, the self-interest argument is too compelling for you to stay in it.

It's doing you no good at all and is just adding to the barriers you've already got to achieving the sort of life you want for yourself.

Impossibleornot I do get that honestly, and I sympathise, because it's the crutch that's supporting you in the short term.

Blackbird is right, there is also a shortage of married men, and so many married women also put up with too much! So, a man who has many needs, terms and conditions and places you last on his list, that man might be throwing in a bit more petrol when he takes you out for a drive but the end result is that he's a hole in the bottom of your tank that top ups can never counter.

Kind of using the John Gray analogy there! But that book isn't total nonsense, I could condense the entire book into a paragraph but still, the basic idea is sound.

OP made it clear in her first post she doesn't WANT a full time relationship.
So why all this advice about how she is unlikely to meet a nice, single man while having an affair?

OP if you are both careful I don't see that it's SUCH a dreadful thing you are doing. Not ideal , but I can see why you are doing it and certainly don't think you are wicked.

So OP, is what you are saying , you don't want a full time relationship but would like a nice single man to see occasionally, in the way you currently see your married lover?
That bit confuses me actually. I don't see how you can be that into your lover if you are keeping an eye out for a single version. ( really, not criticising, just curious )

Do you or don't you feel guilty about having an affair? Does it make you feel bad about yourself ? ( I'm not suggesting it should )

I've been in a similar place to you, OP, at a different point in my life.

Don't beat yourself up. You know this is not a positive and constructive way to live. But you are human.

WRT the holidays - I am the same. I just take a few days off and plan things at home: make an effort to invite their friends around etc. As yours are older, I guess they aren't that keen on a holiday-with-mummy anyway. Just make some time for them, or make a nice dinner that they might like. They will understand that you love them in the way that YOU can. They have one parent who can take them on holidays - they are incredibly lucky! And another parent who loves them - double hoorah. :)

I hope that you can get some peace in your life - and someone who will love and cherish you - before too long.

I don't get your confusion Selba.

The OP wants a sexual relationship where there is an emotional bond, but she isn't seeking a live-in relationship or a father substitute for her children. That's why she's asking advice on meeting nice single men and it's the title of her thread - and that's why posters are advising accordingly.

I can definitely see why she'd prefer a single man with whom to have that sort of relationship. Apart from the freedom to make arrangements that suit both and the liberation of not having to sneak around out of the public gaze, the OP might prefer having a mutually monogamous relationship.

The OP has also said she regards her actions in having an affair with a MM as a bad thing to be doing and her feelings about that are hers and therefore perfectly valid. How others judge that is neither here nor there, is it? Speaking for myself, if I felt that something I was doing was a bad thing, I'd find living with myself hard going and so I'd want to change that so I felt good about myself again.

Oh FFS OP! Why dont you dump the married man and get a dog? You will have lots of unconditional love, someone to cuddle, a reason to get out everyday and meet other people and you wont be wrecking someone elses life

Why don't you log off mumsnet and go on oloko?

elastamum A dog? you are comparing having a DOG to having a relationship with a man?

Besides that being completely laughable, I actually hate dogs. Hairy, woofy, annoyingly bouncy things. Cuddling something who licks its own arse? no thanks. Same goes with cats. Apologies to anyone who loves cats/dogs.

Selba I see what you are saying about being on the lookout for a single version of MM. I understand what you are asking and I can assure you that I am very much 'in to him' but I know that we have no future, so I suppose I am protecting myself for when it is eventually over.

Impossible - of course not, but it wasnt as flippant as it sounds. I was single and on my own with young children for a number of years and having the dogs in the house meant that although I was frequently alone - I wasnt nearly as lonely as I would have been without them.

And they got me out every morning and people talked to me.

FWIW, I would much rather cuddle a dog than someone elses cheating H.

Whilst I can understand that works for some people, I am lonely for adult company, not lonely per se I have my kids to clear up after if I want something to do.

I actually looked after a dog for 6 months when I first split with H. Hated every second of it. Hated being tied, hated cleaning up hairs and shit and I hated the smell.

I talk to lots of people outside the home, its inside the home late at night when all is quiet. Dogs cant discuss the latest news item or chat about house prices unfortunately :-(

Thing is, Impossibleornot lots of women are in your position, and don't seem to have your entitled attitude towards being "lonely for adult company" and all the other euphemisms you use to excuse your selfish behaviour, and the way you respond to other women on this thread.

It really annoys me, because YOU are joining in with the "smug married" behaviour velvetspoon & others have described. You are very dismissive of being single it's not for you somehow you really "need" to have sex & affection etc. And by continuing to say this as a justification for sleeping with the husband of another woman, you seem to have contempt for other single women, who can manage apparently. You can't, because you're so special You can't bear to be like many other single women -- it seems to me you think you're somehow more deserving than other single women.

Stop kidding yourself & grow up. And now I know what the MN expression "boils my piss" really means.

Actually upthechimney I beg to differ, I think you will find a lot of single women feel exactly the same as me, but the darent say it for many of the reasons posted in this thread.

I have lots of single friends and whilst many say that they are 'happy' being single in public, they arent. I have wiped the tears of many of my friends away when they feel worthless, unloved and lonely.

In real life, everyone thinks I am happily single. They would probably describe me as happy, content, confident and someone who doesnt need a man. They dont see me posting on here, or crying when the kids are in bed.

I have been the 'smug married' myself. I never thought I would end up in the situation that I have and I certainly dont think I am 'special' I am responsible for my own life and my own happiness.

Having an affair does not get rid of the 'loneliness for another adult' either, in fact quite the opposite, so there is no justification there.

And as others have said, there is nothing wrong with 'needing/wanting' affection. Its a very human and very natural desire.

I don't think there's anything in the least bit odd about wanting romance, affection and regular sex with one partner.

But having an affair with someone who's married is patently one of the least efficient ways of achieving that.

I'm wondering what it was that you wanted from this thread OP?

Your initial questions were how do people meet nice men and whether they even exist.

Presuming those questions weren't disingenuous, have you had the advice you were seeking?

Not really ! it has just made me see that there are others in the same situation (I mean unhappily single, not having an affair)

I know I need to make changes, just not really sure what or how yet.

I'm sure you need to make changes. There have been many suggestions about which ones and how to go about it, but I don't get the impression you yet want to do anything different. Sometimes when we're in situations, it's impossible to see the consequences of what we're doing and it's only when we change things and look back, we can see that a relationship, job or way of behaving was stunting and holding us back.

I think this might apply to you right now.

Impossibleornot it helps actually to read posts. I don't deny at all what velvetspoon & others have said about being single. They've expressed the difficulties of the situation very eloquently. They copuld have been writing the story of my life & my experience: married people don't like having the facts of singledom explained to them, for example.

And as I've said myself, I've been single for a long time. I was widowed in my 30s with a small child, and my heart really was broken. By the time I had recovered, I was in my late 30s/early 40s and I know from bitter experience that there are very few nice single men who want to be in a committed relationship. As I said upthread, I've pretty much given up.

But what I object to what you say, absolutely, is that throughout this thread you have used your difficulty with being single and your want to have affection, to justify your behaviour in having an affair well to put it truthfully, fucking a married man.

Many women experience the loneliness etc of being single. Many women think to themselves "This wasn't what I planned." But not so many women then go on to justify sleeping with someone else's husband because they "need" sex. Hell, a lot of us might feel that way, but we don't behave so immorally or selfishly.

I am just fed up with your selfish justifications. And you don't seem at all able to accept that you are behaving disgracefully towards another woman, your children, and yourself.

I think my main crime here is to not be able to express my difficulties 'elequently'.

I have said time and time again that I know that I need to make changes, I am not sure what or how you would prefer me to put it.

I think that you have misread (or I am not so good at expressing what I mean) what I have said about needing/wanting affection. I DONT Get that with the MM, I never will either, as he has no plans to leave. I WANT that with someone single, but I cant find someone single.

Whilst you have my greatest sympathies in what happened to you, I think you have been a little unfair in saying that I am selfish because I would like someone to love and hold.

It's not selfish to want someone to love and to hold.

It is selfish to have an affair with a married person and to continue with that arrangement.

You're unlikely to get what you say you want or need if this and some of your other untackled impediments continue.

You still might not get what you want or need even if you tackle those barriers, but if it's at all important to you to know that your integrity and honesty are intact, you will at least have those, plus the opportunity for things to change for you in the future.

Why are you with him, then?
What do you get from him? Apart from sex?

You can easily drop him any time you want.