Finding a nice single man?

[Impossibleornot]

I'm a regular who has name changed and I am ready for the flaming that I will no doubt get

I have read so many threads on here from OW and about OW that suggest they go and find themselves a single man and leave the MM alone.

Ive been seeing a MM for 18 months. I love him, he loves me. We have an understanding, he wont leave his wife (he loves her and their children) and I dont want a full time relationship as I have children and I dont want to bring another man into their lives, they already have a Dad.

Because I know that we cannot be together I have never closed my eyes to the option of meeting someone else. Oh and I have met plenty of men, problem is, they are all complete nobs!! In 4 years of being single I have never met an available man who dos not have something wrong with him.

So in summary, I KNOW I shouldnt be seeing a MM, but my alternative is to be single (I hate being single, I need to kiss and cuddle someone, I feel desperately lonely when I dont have someone) or to go for 'second best' in which case I might as well have stayed unhappily married as my EX is more normal than most of the blokes I meet.

I am probably trying to justify myself, which is nice and easy on an anonymous forum, but how on earth do people meet nice men? do they even exist?

I'd have thought having an affair with a married father was 'nasty and wicked' not to mention selfish but as usual, people in your position have very strange barometers of what is acceptable and unacceptable behaviour.

From what you've posted so far (including what you've said about ruining and then stopping holidays with your children) I don't assume your behaviour is selfish.

It's self-evident.

No, OP, you're patently not selfish! Of course not .

Your actions show what a kind, thoughtful person you are. Y'know, how you've considered the man's wife and children when entering into a relationship with him. When you're denying your children a holiday because you don't want to sit by the pool by yourself (are you a teenage girl?). When you ask for advice on a website full of women who've been cheated on, then get shirty when we don't condone your HORRIBLE actions and choices - and let's face it, they ARE choices.

Yes, you're just the epitome of selflessness, aren't you?

As you were.

Are you really actually looking for us to agree how difficult it is to find a nice single man in order to justify your affair and seek approval for continuing it?

I'm starting to wonder if that's actually the purpose of the thread.

Re 'needing kisses and cuddles' do you know that this is the ONE thing that elderly people are missing the most? That they usually have spent years wo anyone touching them and it is a real issue for them, down to their physical and emotional health.

So on that pov, I do believe that this very physical need is exactly that. A NEED, just as sleep, eating and drinking are needs too.

And yes there is an issue with 'single people' as you are supposed to be either happy to be single or are supposed to find a man to live with you. I know a few friends who are single and in this situation. Either, they have become very 'anti-men' saying that they are all not worth it (and miserable sods), having ONS after another. Or have drown into depression as they felt worthless for not finding a man worth spending their life with.

Does it mean that it them makes it OK to have an affair? Well it doesn't make it OK for the man who is married and is breaking the trust of his wife to have an affair no.
Is it OK to have a relationship with a man who is clearly capable of such a deceit? I am not sure either.
Will that relationship bring any happiness to the OP? No neither.

I think that solution is a loose-loose situation for both of them. But I am not suer what is the solution either...

BTW, the worry of being single and not finding someone to love again (and make love to) is the reason that keep some women into their relationship even if it's far from perfect.

I am actually with Marigold here, you are putting your wants before a families integrity and in terms of his wife safety, not good.

What blackbird, velvetspoon and ladyindisguise said.

Short term, the only solution is to break up with this man. I don't think the situation is solely of the OP's making but nonetheless the current situation is unfair on everybody.

I have been single quite literally for all of my life. I have never been in a relationship. It can be very difficult - easier, I am sure, than being with somebody who doesn't show me love or consideration or respect, but all the same, that doesn't mean it is easy.

Being 'single' is often hailed as some sort of fantastic thing because of the 'freedom' but people who act as cheerleaders for this sort of lifestyle often do so because their visits to the land of singledom are very temporary and they know this.

If I was going to London for a week, I am sure I would love it. I wold visit the museums and the theatres and the galleries, shop, see the sights and immerse myself in it. I am sure I would come away from that trip thinking how fantastic London is.

If I went to live there and had to deal with a staggeringly high mortgage, crowds, congestion, I probably wouldn't enthuse quite so much about London then! It's much the same with single/couples - but what is interesting is that as this thread demonstrates, any complaints, no matter how mild, about being single are not tolerated and you are briskly, sometimes, told to make the effort!

Please, if you are married, or in a committed relationship, don't assume your single friend is sleeping off a hangover on Sunday or that she will be busy all the time, chances are she won't. Maybe showing a bit of kindness helps - I find now, in my thirties, my friends are very much tied up with their own young families which of course I understand but all the same leaves me dare I say it - lonely.

OP, I'm not going to tell you what the answers are, I don't think you are selfish (thoughtless, yes) and certainly misguided, but I do think you need to take some control of the situation. Accept that being single can be shit (it helps to be able to say that and now be shot down!) but there are good sides to it as well.

Good luck.

Heartbrokenmum73 - you keep saying that I am 'denying my children a holiday' how did you come to this conlusion? They are having a holiday with their Father this year.

I admire women (and men) who are able to do things like that alone with their children. I tried it and I am not good at it, I felt like I ruined the childrens holiday, I would feel more comfortable spending the money sending the away with their Dad. Se that as selfish if you like, but I am considering my childrens needs, I dont think they enjoy being with me.

And it is nasty and wicked for me to be having an affair, I agree.

You don't like doing things alone with your kids? Jesus! you have bigger issues that just being the OW I expect tbh,

What octopus said.

You need to spend time alone with your children. Build a relationship. Then having a holiday with them will be a joyous time rather than a chore or bore.

I get the feeling you don't know how to enjoy just "being", really letting yourself go with the children. I recognise that because I used to feel the same but the more time you spend doing things with them the more natural things become.

Well, I'm a single parent and I spend too much time with my children so I really wonder if what the OP needs is to spend more time with her children - seriously??

Really agree with the common sense from Blackbird, Upthechimney, Velvetspoon...

The truth as somebody said, that there are more men who prefer to STAY single than women who prefer to stay singe! so do the maths... It isn't our fault we're single. I also resent the suggestions (not so subtle) that it is my fault somehow. My attitude. That I'm too fussy. ha!

The denying your children a holiday stuff is ridiculous.

Did you check with your DC's that you were 'not good at it' and 'ruined their holiday"? Their perceptions may well be very different to yours.

As far as the MM thing goes. I'm with the majority AND I'm single AND I'd like to find a nice bloke AND I'm actively seeking one AND I'm happy to be on my own until I find someone who gets me and whom I feel comfortable with. It ain't hard.

ps, I agree with you Blackbird, married couples, women should show a bit more kindness and inclusion towards single friends. You are also right that it is just not acceptable to ever express any discontent at all about being single. For some reason it makes people so uncomfortable. Even if you are saying quite reasonably that you are fine most of the time but occasionally you are lonely or would like company. It's just not something you're allowed to say. But if you announce too cheerfully or too vociferously that you are very happy being single people will say 'she doth protest too much'. It's actually a very tricky one.

You should blog about being single! you have it 'down'.

I dont know where I have ever said I dont like doing things alone with my children ! I said I am not taking them on holiday this year as I was so unhappy last year I felt like I ruined it for them. I didnt have the strength, energy or confidence to do things with them and their Dad does. So until I feel better about myself I am not prepared to put them through that again. They are good kids, they would never say they were not having a great time.

I dont think it is possible for me to spend any more time with them than I already do! and I have a great relationship with them, I want it to stay that way, so I will continue to hide from them that I am unhappy and if that means 'denying' them a holiday then I will do that FOR THEM.

OP, I can sympathise with your feelings about "holidays.". I've chosen more than once not to take my DCs on holiday in the past because I suffer from acute social anxiety and the thought of being in charge and having to deal with a strange place and strange people was just too stressful. My DCs wouldn't have enjoyed it with a stressed-out mother.

I apologise re the comment about spending more time with dc. I suppose in fairness I was thinking back to when I was a single parent.. I was working full time and dd was in nursery or with my mum and time we did have together I was exhausted and fed up. So I don't think it's true that just being a single parent means you spend too much time with your dc. It totally depends onthe dynamic etc. So I am sorry I was relating to my own experiences.

I do really think however there are good single men out there. I met dh after I had two failed marriages behind me. He is a lot younger than me and we have a child together as well as my dd from first marriage.

Don't give up.

I don't think anyone is saying, necessarily, there aren't good single men out there. There are, of course there are.

However, the actual logistics of meeting one are tricky at best and a lot is down to sheer dumb luck - and it is that which others, including I, have taken some issue with. Not meeting a decent man does not mean that you yourself are not decent, attractive, pleasant or successful. But to admit that would be to admit that you (on a general note rather than a personal one to you Fairy) could end up in that situation as well - and as this thread demonstrates beautifully, no one wants to admit that - so we convince ourselves that single women are single because of something 'wrong' with them.

They try too hard. They don't try enough. They don't socialise, or they are always socialising. They aren't "nice." They haven't learned to love themselves (if they dislike being single) or they are too independent (if they like it.) They haven't "put themselves out there" or they aren't "rounded" (they need hobbies!) or they need to do online dating.

It is disappointing, on a board like Mumsnet, where your daughter liking pink or admitting to never leaving the house without makeup elicits cries of outrage, to see such entrenched values and attitudes.

I have hopes for the future but not assumptions. To make plans for a life which doesn't involve a man is not on a par with "giving up" but it is important to have somewhere to discuss these feelings and thoughts without being told either that YOU are the problem or having them shrugged off - how many other single ladies get blasted from time to time with "Well I had given up then six months later I met my DH and we got married and had the fairy tale ending."

Funny how most of us pour scorn on the fairy tales but believe, on some level, everyone's "prince" exists, even if in a non-conventional form.

I'm writing my story and my happy ending will be what makes ME happy, not society

Thanks Fairylea, appreciate that comment.

I do feel stressed with the kids sometimes but they are teenagers, they are off doing their own thing a lot of the time, but we do have a good relationship. Rightly or wrongly, they will never ever know when I am unhappy because I hide it from them. I found it hard to do that when we were on holiday. They see me as a strong person and they would be very shocked to realise that I was so scared.

Blackbird I really hope that you get your happy ending because you absolutely, totally and utterly deserve it.

That's really kind Impossible - I think that I WILL, it just may not be society's idea of a happy ending.

I'm going, if I may, to go back to your bipolar comment. Are you on any medication for it? Those criticising the OP may like to remember how difficult it is for people with a disability - essentially you are asking someone with a serious MH issue (and bipolar is) to go out of her comfort zone on holiday and then to say she is depriving and neglecting her children - how very unpleasant!

Bipolar also has a high sex drive, neediness and impulsivity as some to name but a few symptoms, I really feel the OP is being taken advantage of by a man who is probably loving it.

I could not agree with you more blackbird! So, so refreshing to read your posts, and it's true, even on mn where normally posters are so enlightened wrt to praising their dds for things besides their looks, and encouraging their dds to be themselves and not please men etc, there is still a deeply entrenched train of thought that if a woman is single it is her fault.

I used to wonder was there something different about me, years ago now. My mother said to me (to try and console me I think?) "ah well, some women aren't the marrying kind". and I had to burst her bubble I'm afraid. I said calmly, "no, I am the marrying kind, but I am not married".

Like you say, so much of it boils down to dumb luck, pot luck, timing.... I am nice etc, there are no barriers up around me. I don't have an unrealistic list. I just.never.meet.nice.men.

Maybe the happy ending is that I just totally accept being single, 100% accept it. Because at the moment I only 75% accept it. So that is one possible happy ending really.

Impossibleornot hope you figure it all out. I don't like to see people in your shoes berated for being selfish when you're lost and lonely. I hope you find the strength to realise that you deserve better, but until then, I'm not going to take a swipe at you. I don't relish the thought of spending a lot of money to go away with my children either by the way. I can listen to them squabbling at home. I cope, but being somewhere lovely without another adult to appreciate it, and two ungrateful fighting children......... no thanks. And that doesn't make me a bad mother so I'm sure you are a good mum!

"I think that I WILL - it just may not be society's idea of a happy ending"

snap

Blackbird I am not on any medication at the moment, there are a number of reasons, I have tried quite a few different meds but none agreed with me and the side effects were too much for me (my resting HR was 190 on the last one I tried), I am working through it with counselling and because it isnt 'severe', I am self managing by understanding what to do when I am on a low (the highs are actually great and I get loads done)

The MM has no idea that there is anything wrong with me, I wouldnt even know where to start with telling him, you may be right about him taking advantage though.