Cheating - what's a dealbreaker for you and what could you forgive?

[tallielikesthesky]

Friend has just told me that 6 months ago she discovered her 'd'h had had some sort of 'almost affair' and it's shocked me how different our opinions on it are.

Apparently she found messages on his phone - OW lived in city her DH was travelling to a lot for work at the time and there were weeks worth of daily texts messages, talk about sex (likes etc, not sexting) , references to them meeting up, to ow being a good kisser and something about them sharing a bed but not having sex (OW had apparently broken it off saying she couldn't go any further than they'd gone with a married man but apologised to the wanker that he hadn't got what he wanted but she'd hoped he'd enjoyed spending the night with her).

Friend said she was upset but because she could tell from messages that they hadn't had sex and it was over she didn't really consider it an affair and had forgiven him. Apparently him performing oral sex on someone else or having full sex are the only dealbreakers for her.

I know it's easy to say things hypothetically but to me that's a proper affair and I just don't think I could forgive him. All the secrecy, kissing and sleeping in the same bed would be too much for me and would ruin any trust I had in him. I reckon I could forgive a drunken kiss with a stranger but nothing more.

Now I'm wondering which is more common. At what point would you be unable to forgive? Sexting? Kissing someone else? Sleeping in same bed? Receiving/giving oral sex? Full sex?

At what point do you think an emotional affair become unforgivable?

Sometimes our pride (or maybe more accurately we could call it self respect ) is all we have left.

I think you misunderstand me though, worsester. I don't think I will never get cheated on, that is will never happen to me, I don't even have the arrogance to say that I would never succumb to a situation. I have no more a "golden marriage" than the next person, which could change with one fell swoop at any time.

I am not using the words ego and arrogance interchangeably here.

The op asked a question though and is going to get a variety in the responses. And using the word compromise is not grandstanding or smug! If you are married ad believe those vows have meaning then it is a compromise to sideline them and stay with someone who didn't take them as seriously.

My dh CHOSE to cheat on us after four dc and 18 yrs.
I kicked his sorry arse to the kerb and have never regretted it for a second.
I do t believe there is any excuse for betraying someone who you have shared a life with and think more of myself than to compromise.
He was very upset at my insistence that he leave and kindly pointed out that "lots of blokes cheat"
I thanked him for that insight but still insisted he leave.
He honestly thought that he could sleep with someone else and there'd be a row before life resumed.
Ho ho ho, his wrong he was.
The deal breaker for me was the second he decided to engage in behaviour he kept a secret from me because he knew it was wrong.

Massive ego here too admittedly developed over time and having experienced a life threatening illness which tends to put things into perspective.
That said, I completely understand why some people don't end the marriage.
Completely.

Ledkr I also have te health issue which does change it

Ledkr like your attitude. You sound strong, in control and certain. That's how we all need to be, regardless of our choice. To be happy in any decision you need to be certain.

Don't think I didn't suffer because I did. My heart was broken but I didn't think staying with him would heal it tho.
noddy it dies doesn't it. I'm not being lucky enough to survive cancer to live "half a life"

Now I've been on the other side of the fence so to speak and am technically still married whilst seeing somebody else I get it a bit more than I did before.
I do still love my cheating scumbag but can happily spend the evening with somebody else and really enjoy that too.
It's very complicated marriage, but I do believe people fall into one of two camps those that will cross the line and those who simply never will no matter what.
It's finding the like minded one to marry that is particularly hard especially with 2nd marriages because I've yet to meet a guy who's been cheated on and there seem to be plenty who've been kicked to the kerb, the question is can a leopard change its spots and I find that hard to believe to be the case. (In my potted history of dating for all of two months).

You would laqueen we had been together since teens and were really happy (I thought) he saw me through a mastectomy in our early twenties better than men twice his age.
I got over him.
I now feel the same about dh.
We are resilient!
We are women!
I couldn't down my life trying to be perfect to avoid him cheating again. He ruined anything we ever had.

The revolting bloke that acquaintance of mine took back before becoming ms. stepford had a similar attitude Ledkr. That cheating was just what men do.

Had my relative's husband come out with any of that shit, he would have been toast. Because apart from being a woman with enormous self-respect, she's a feminist.

She isn't living 'half a life' by any stretch of the imagination. In fact I'm struggling to think of a woman I know who's living a richer, fuller life.

Had her husband been like your ex, or my acquaintance's ridiculous twat of a man though- if she'd stayed with him, I'm sure it would have been a very miserable half-life, but knowing her as I do the thought of her staying with a man who came out with shit like that is laughable.

I guess the point of this is that not all men - or women for that matter - who have affairs are complete twats who think they are entitled to it.

And not all women - or men - who stay in their relationships after an affair lose their integrity, their self-respect and are doomed to living a 'half life'.

As for compromising on marriage vows? Well not everyone makes 'vows' and gets married for a start, but show me a long-term relationship where there hasn't been a compromise along the way, or a long marriage where at some point, one or more of the other vows hasn't been broken by one or the other.

This absolutely isn't to minimise infidelity as being a massively serious breach of those vows though. It is. But I guess the people who realise just how badly they've fucked up and who are willing to do the hard work necessary to atone for it are the ones who are more likely to be given a proper second chance. And the partners with more self-respect and personal integrity are, I think, more likely to have the wisdom to know whether it's the right thing to give them that chance.

I was also told to be thankful he'd never hit me!
It's all part of trying to excuse shit behaviour

It's that race to the bottom thing isn't it Ledkr?

It's like when you hear women saying "He doesn't beat me, keep me short of money or cheat" while describing a man who's intolerably selfish, addicted to drink/drugs, rubbish in bed and a porn hound.

Like the chris rock scetch "I take care of my kids, I ain't never been to jail"
"Like you're supposed to dumbass"
No medals for normal behaviour here.

Like I've said before it all depends on the circumstances.

I am not living half a life
I am not trying to be perfect
I am not paranoid or looking over my shoulder or terrified he'll leave
I have very hard edges

Not sure any of the above applied before it happened. We were self destructing, both of us.

I'm happy we've reached a good place, and I know neither of us will risk what we have. We both tried to walk away, but at the end of the day neither of us could.

I think I could forgive DH an affair, in a general discussion with friends about it I told him I just wouldn't want to find out. Like another poster much earlier down-thread, i was his first and only serious girlfriend, we are together 20years - I could understand him being curious/ getting itchy feet. I'm sure I sound very naive, I don't think the sex bit of the infidelity would bother me too much but the emotional investment in another person, the inevitable withdrawing from me and the family would probably what would bother me the most.
I should probably mention at this point that DH has told me on numerous occasions that I am the only person he has ever met with absolutely no ego whatsoever. I don't know how true that is and for the sake of my self-esteem would rather view that from a buddhist perspective.

Wellwobbly, what is the unicorn blueprint? Can you link to it?

Qwerty, WW reproduced the article in her post. Here it is: chumplady.com/2013/05/the-unlikelihood-of-immediate-remorse/

Laqueen that is precisely it you love and adore the man you are with now. If he had some sordid little affair behind your back that man would cease to be. Falling out of love with a cheater is actually not that hard once the enormity of what they have done sinks in

Exactly how it worked for me noddy
He was no longer who I'd thought he was so whilst I grieved and missed him it was more for the lost man I'd loved.
My worst thing was that I had no memories without him. That used to make me weep.
But now ten years later I have new ones on too of the ones I already had.
It's very sad though and I dread having to go through it ever again.

Thanks for your opinions everyone. I agree to an extent that no one can know how they will react until they are in the situation but my view that anything more than a drunken kiss would be it is nothing to do with thinking it weak to forgive or anything like that, it is simply based on me knowing what I am like and knowing that trust is everything to me. I'm not sure I could get over it if that trust was broken and can't imagine living my life with someone who I was always wondering about if that makes sense.

I think what I initially found hard to understand was how my friend seemed to be thinking purely of the actions - so sleeping in the same bed as another woman was apparently forgivable, receiving oral sex was apparently forgivable, but giving was not etc.. I kind of get that in that of course there are different levels of intimacy/betrayal but to me and most people it seems by the comments here there are so many other factors to consider and the act isn't necessarily the measure of the damage done.

If she was honest I doubt it's actually as clear cut as this to my friend but suspect this is how she has rationalised it to herself. I think she's been holding on to the fact that they didn't have sex as something that means he didn't do a lot wrong but in most people's eyes he clearly did.

laqueen we were just talking about that today.
Ow fails to see why I don't speak to her after ten years as "it was so long ago"
I think people fail to grasp the effect on children.
My dd has never known what's it like to live with both parents and for that alone I can't forgive either of them.
I'm remarried and fabulously happy but my children had their world turned upside down.