Cheating - what's a dealbreaker for you and what could you forgive?

[tallielikesthesky]

Friend has just told me that 6 months ago she discovered her 'd'h had had some sort of 'almost affair' and it's shocked me how different our opinions on it are.

Apparently she found messages on his phone - OW lived in city her DH was travelling to a lot for work at the time and there were weeks worth of daily texts messages, talk about sex (likes etc, not sexting) , references to them meeting up, to ow being a good kisser and something about them sharing a bed but not having sex (OW had apparently broken it off saying she couldn't go any further than they'd gone with a married man but apologised to the wanker that he hadn't got what he wanted but she'd hoped he'd enjoyed spending the night with her).

Friend said she was upset but because she could tell from messages that they hadn't had sex and it was over she didn't really consider it an affair and had forgiven him. Apparently him performing oral sex on someone else or having full sex are the only dealbreakers for her.

I know it's easy to say things hypothetically but to me that's a proper affair and I just don't think I could forgive him. All the secrecy, kissing and sleeping in the same bed would be too much for me and would ruin any trust I had in him. I reckon I could forgive a drunken kiss with a stranger but nothing more.

Now I'm wondering which is more common. At what point would you be unable to forgive? Sexting? Kissing someone else? Sleeping in same bed? Receiving/giving oral sex? Full sex?

At what point do you think an emotional affair become unforgivable?

Why is it 'smug' to say you would walk away from someone you love because you couldn't accept their infidelity but it is not 'weak' to stay and make it work?

When I was younger, I hung around after all sorts of misdemeanors partly because of low self-esteem and poor examples of what a good man is, but mostly because I was desperate for a child. I never forgave anything, but I "prioritised" and buried the feelings of anger.
Once I had a child, I would tolerate nothing, because my view of myself changed and my requirements of a partner too. I'd be alone any day rather than take any nonsense now.

Having recently been totally fucked over, I'd now not forgive anything. And I mean anything. From a flirty text to a drunken snog... Anything would now be a deal breaker.

I thought that initial excruciating pain was a measure of my love for him when in reality it was just pain

I think that was beautifully put, Noddy. The pain might have been a measure of how highly you value(d) honesty & fidelity. These are the sort of things we learn about ourselves in a crisis; until then it's just theory.

Which answers your last question: It's 'smug' to say you know you know what you would do, based on theory alone. Whether the alternative is 'weak' or not depends on the partners' attitudes, surely, and what they're finding out about themselves?

I'm not the most tactful of people but I think, LaQueen that sometimes a little bit of delicate circumspection is needed on this board. It's all very well to celebrate definite opinions on things but I would (almost) guarantee that your view would change should your life slide out of view if you now have children, built up a life together and are battling the devastation of betrayal from perhaps a low point to start with. I understand where you're coming from; you feel the way you do, but the way it comes across (to me) is almost astonished bewilderment that anybody could possibly sink so low as to feel any differently.

Maybe black/white thinking prevents the sufferer from being able to put themselves in somebody else's shoes? I don't know for certain but would thnk it's quite a disadvantage.

noddy... Yes, but there's a middle ground, or there should be on this board. It's not AIBU or Chat. I think there are some posters on this board who are really talented at making a tough point quickly and cleanly, and knowing when to stop. OP can then let it mill around and make the decision that is ultimately theirs to make without being made to feel even more vulnerable and foolish. Sadly, I am not one of these posters.

I just think that if you contribute to the misery of somebody who needs support, that's very sad. I've done that before - unintentionally, clumsily - but I'm sure it hit the spot just the same.

Most people me included are just answering the question.

I don't think LaQueen is smug, nor do I think I am fool hardy. I think LaQueen speaks from a position of absolutely certainty based on a hypothetical situation which deep down she is pretty confident will never arise. When I was in that self same position I said all the same things LaQueen is saying now.

My point has always been throughout this thread is no matter how determined you are about your views you can't possibly know how you'll react unless you are in the situation, and how you do react will be very much down to the exact circumstances you are facing.

I was very black and white about affairs before, my mind just wouldn't accept how anyone could get past one, or how they could be involved in one. However, I have learned so much about human fallibility, and have become a much nicer kinder person for it. I no longer feel that everyone who has had an affair is a serial bastard or that every OW is a heartless bitch. Some however absolutely are!

Noddy... depends how you say it, I suppose:
Why is it 'smug' to say you would walk away from someone you love because you couldn't accept their infidelity but it is not 'weak' to stay and make it work?

It's not wrong for anybody to decide to stay or to walk away based on how they feel. There are too many posters though who project themselves onto OP's scenarios when only the broadest details are similar, nothing else is.

I really agree with that last post, Worcester.

It might be a little like the situation that cropped up a lot when I was in group therapy. In ordinary conversation, it's normal for the speakers to share information about themselves, almost by turns. We don't usually notice how the conversation is somewhat like a comparative exercise. (It is especially a habit of addicts to do this, barely even listening to the speaker before them.) When a new member came to group, they needed 'coaching' to listen carefully to the others, and to consider all of the perspectives offered rather than just their own.

In some ways, AIBU and Chat are like the everyday conversations - informative - where Relationships requires more of the therapeutic approach - reflective.

If I am being totally honest, what would make me walk away is ego

I have been married to my H for 20 years, but if he crossed the line I would fuck him off because of my ego

It doesn't allow me to accept someone making a fool of me, and for every post where the cheated-on OP is told "he is the fool" I have to admit to feeling "I wouldn't let someone treat me like a fool and get away with it"

I am punitive, and I am black and white on this issue, so I agree with LaQ here

Treat me like shit..you leave my life

yes, maybe I overestimate the importance of someone "being in my life" in an arrogant way to some people

but I have accepted poor treatment over and over, firstly from my birth family and secondly (totally as a result of the previous), from men in my teen years

never again, and if it is arrogant to stand by that then so be it and I accept it

Ah but LaQueen, if you left your DP, and he is now your DH you do not always cut off your nose to spite your face. Perhaps you are not as self destructive as you think.

It makes perfect sense to me

I have an ago the size of the moon, I know that

But it is very carefully and painstakingly constructed out of the ashes of being treated like shit

I can understand that for some people who have never been hurt before they could forgive, without realising they are compromising themselves massively

but they are...(as hard as it to accept that)

ego

See there we go again.

It's fine if you personally feel like you do - and if your previous life experiences have made you what you are and have shaped your views. It's also good to see some honesty that a lot of it's about pride, ego and not wanting others to think you're a fool.

But as soon as you start projecting you on to other people, by insisting they are 'compromising themselves massively' then that's when it stops being helpful, or objective - and is also the point when the listening stops.

To me it's absolutely insane and reductive to treat every affair, every cheat, every relationship and every betrayed person as the same, regardless of the circumstances.

Sometimes it's just obvious when a woman's going to be on a hiding to nothing with her arsehole partner- like the stepford woman I mentioned before. I've seen threads from women in that same position and while I have mostly lurked, I can understand why posters shout 'LTB!!'

But the non clear-cut ones seem to have fallen down a black hole, because exactly the same response is given to them too.

That's a shame, in my view.

Whenever I post on every thread in this vein, I make it clear where I am coming from

I make no apologies for that

I afford OP's with the emotional intelligence to be able to take every response and judge how close to her own situation it is

To think otherwise does the OP down, IMO

when someone posts here, they ask for (and should accept) a whole range of opinions that of course will come with a personal slant

why would I post otherwise...I don't go on threads where I have no experience to share

you won't see me on a knitting thread, or a cooking thread...for example

I want an ego like yours, AF. I'm making it my new aspiration.

That should boost your ego

I can cook, though but ...

I do think pride comes before a fall though. It's all very well having ones ego dented and that being the be all and end all, but really is that going to make you happy ?
Whatever the decision and fuck knows I've been back and forth a few times, you have to be happy in the end and to hell with the correct response or the expected one.

It's all very well us theorising about this stuff, or even those of us who have lived through it trying to explain that when it happens it isn't so easy, the big question is what did Tallie's friend say about affairs before it happened to her?

I bet you any money she said any form of affair, emotional or physical was a deal breaker. Because everyone says that. If everyone held fast to that though there would be far more broken marriages than there actually are.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall if it happens to any of you oh so certain ladies on here. I hope to god it doesn't, but given the statistical likelihood, and my knowledge that it can sully even those marriages where everyone thinks you are soul mates, one of those golden couples that could never split, at least one of you on here will have to deal with it.