How far do you make allowances for 'how somebody is' when considering poor behaviour?

[BranchingOut]

I have posted before on here about my DH - at present we have more or less agreed to give our relationship one last try. The potted summary is that for a long time he has expressed unhappiness/disatisfaction and doubt about the relationship. Finally during a row in early May I told him that I was very close to saying that enough was enough. This gave him a real shock and he said that he loved me, didn't want to lose me etc.

This post is just to get some opinions on something that happened this morning.

He has always been 'not a morning person', so I have long adjusted to him being a bit sullen and grumpy in the morning. Likewise, he does not like being a passenger when I am driving and is critical of my driving. So, on occasions when he gets a lift with me in the morning he can often be quite irritable.

But this morning I noted that he uttered six things that were either directly critical, mocking me or questioning my decisions - within a five minute car journey. All 'small', but the effect is cummulative.

I might be a bit sensitive today, as I have a major deadline today, but I had a bit of a cry on my way to the tube station. I am also finding it a bit tricky to get focused and on with what I need to do, hence turning to MN.

So how far, in a loving relationship, should a partner make allowances for something that happens during a person's bad times/bad situations?
Would it be ok if he was just there grumbling, but not being critical of me? Where does 'that's how he is' cross over into unacceptable?

Many thanks for any insight.

I don't like it when things get taken out on each other. I think the crossing over line is very close. Being grumbled at is not okay, being mocked, to be honest, is seriously crossed over to unacceptable. What makes him think that it is not such a big deal? Sometimes it may feel like it's easier to let thinks slip by.. he doesn't mean it and all that, he is just.. But it is undermining. The fact that he is not a morning person is not enough of a justification to treat you badly.
There must be other ways of dealing with 'bad' feelings. Like saying: I don't feel good this morning, could you just let me be?
Btw.. good luck with your deadline.. hope you get on all right.

You don't have to make allowances for anything. You can choose how much you will put up with but tbh I would never expect to be mocked or made to cry. That doesn't sound like a loving relationship at all, it sounds like you putting up with a silly little petulant child who has no empathy at all and no self-awareness or else just total entitled disregard for you.

That's Shit tbh.

I would either stop the car and make him walk the rest or turn up the radio to deafening volume.

He'll get it.

Well I wouldn't give him any lifts for a start, let the ungrateful sod get a bus/taxi.

In general if your oh isn't enhancing your life then theres not much point being with them. And from bitter experience its action not words that are the best measure

I'm not a morning person either, but I don't pick on and criticise people because of that.

He's not trying very hard, is he?

He has for a long time expressed dissatisfaction and doubt about the relationship? Fuck off, matie.

Honestly, you could do better than this shit.

I think it's definitely about whether he's taking it out on you. It just indicates a lack of respect/lack of caring how you feel when he does or says something.

I'm crap at mornings but I don't shout at my DP. If I am a bit short for whatever reason then I feel sheepish and apologise about it. I also try and temper my reactions by starting my mornings slowly, with coffee and hiding myself in the laptop for a bit before I have to do anything like try and get DS dressed.

"Just the way someone is" is fair but if that person cares about you, they will make allowances for themselves and try to manage the part of their personality that you struggle with. It shouldn't just be you overlooking things which upset you while he blunders on oblivious (or worse, uncaring)

Technically it is his car, so I can't really make him get out or anything. I might start saying that if he wants to come with us in the morning then he has to drive, or not comment.

If he's so bad at mornings he should at least have the consideration to keep quiet till he's human. Has he acknowledged that mornings are a problem for him?

I would sit him down and explain to him that taking his bad humour out on you is very unfair, that most people don't like getting up and going to work and that his grumpiness is ruining your mornings too. I'd tell him that lifts are no longer on offer, unless he can have the manners to behave appropriately.

In a loving relationship forgiveness of the other's occasional bad behaviour due to mitigating circumstances is normal as none of us are perfect, but the emphasis is on the word occasional. Anything more often than once-in-a-blue-moon is a pattern and very indicative of the level of respect that person holds for their partner (i.e.very little).

I once had a partner who criticised my driving habitually. After 6 or 7 incidents, and having just driven 15 miles to pick him after a night out drinking, I made him get out of the car 7 miles from home and left him there. I said since I was such a bad driver he obviously wouldn't want to be driven by me anymore.

He never criticised my driving again.

I am normally really resilient, but I think that this morning just made me feel really emotional.

A parent who loved me died, some years ago, and I just thought how they would hate for me to be feeling like that.
Jeez, I now have the tissues out again.

I am a good enough human being by all sorts of external measures, why does he see me like this?

Oh poor you, I think he's conveniently forgotten that he's living on borrowed time. If I were you I'd write a brief note of what I was going to say to the grumpy twat him this evening, put it away, take a deep breath and get on with meeting that deadline.

BranchingOut - do you think if a colleague had driven him to work he would have behaved as he did to you? If the answer is yes, he would have been just as rude to his colleague, then he is just obnoxious, if on the other hand you think he would have made an effort and been polite, then you are covering for him with this "not a morning person" stuff. I spent years doing this with my ex-H, but can see now, I should have been far less "reasonable" and understanding & set really clear limits of what I would not tolerate.

I think it's fair for you to challenge him on his behaviour - you don't like it and it's not loving or kind. He also has control over it. Would he act like this to his boss for an early morning meeting?? I suspect the answer is no. It means he has self control but is choosing to vent at you.

I think it's important to establish your boundaries - I have let H erode my boundaries and the behaviour doesn't improve it just gets worse.

Please see this as a warning as he is being disrespectful - it could be that he is testing how far he can push you into accepting his behaviour.

BranchingOut

I would never call your relationship a loving one and this died a long time ago. The never deserved one last try; he had his chances and he's blown them all.

This man you're with has not changed one bit has he since "coatgate" and him not talking to you for 11 days!. He still has you going around in circles over him.

Why are you with him at all now?. How much more are you willing to put up with?. Or are you so conditioned to his nonsense that you think there is no escaping him now?.

I am normally really resilient

What, resilient to being picked on and criticised? If so, why? Why are you 'resilient' to that?

You don't have to be 'resilient' with shit like this. Set some boundaries. Or lose the weight (12st-ish)

Why do you give him a lift?

He does not deserve you honestly.

Words are cheap, actions speak louder than words. Look at his actions towards you.

In answering your original question OP, the answer is "not far".

I dated someone once who did something similar to your H. He was over at my place for a lovely lamb roast that I had cooked. Within 10 minutes of his arrival, he managed to say 9 shitty things about my place, which I own and have lived in for 10 years. I was beyond pissed. I threw him out and ate that lovely lamb roast on my own. So that he could not disown what he had said, I immediately emailed him listing the things he had said and demanded and apology. He gave every excuse under the sun and of course I didn't get an apology. This crap behaviour of his continued and I eventually 'engineered' a break up with this twat.

Remember, actions (and words) have consequences, and he has not been given any consequences for what he has done. Do not confuse resilience with 'doormat', it's not the same thing.

I think his 'not sure what he wanted in the relationship' was an abusive tactic to keep you on your toes and him in control. When he realised that you might call and end to it he changed his tune and backtracked massively.
This 'morning thing', well its BS. Its just another way of control, of keeping you in your place. he's an abusive twunt - you should have kicked him out when you had the chance. sounds like your 'resiliance' means your allowing his rudesness and disrespect to wash over you. Look out for what you are demonstrating to your kid/s (you say 'come with 'us' in your posts) - that its OK for a man to belittle and criticise and be rude, and she needs to keep it shut.
Horrible.

I am not a doormat, but have to bear in mind that I have been married to him for nearly 11 years and with him for nearly twenty. I have been with him for my whole adult life, so it is taking me a while to get to the point where I feel that I can go it alone.

However, I do admire what you did with roast lamb guy and no, I would not accept this from a short term or casual boyfriend.

I don't mind giving him a lift as we are going in a similar direction, not to do so would be a bit petty.

griping and criticising is petty. and making everyone suffer because you dont 'do mornings' (which is usually just an excuse to vent your self pity on everyone else and make them feel rotten)
Saying you wont give him a lift if he is going to be so rude isnt petty, its setting a boundary of decent behaviour - behaviour he should be exhibiting anyway. So until he can learn to keep a civil tongue, why expose yourself to it.

and the reason that you feel bad or guilty about putting a boundary like that is because you have been conditioned by years of his behaviour to put his feelings and needs above everyone elses. I guess he would say you were selfish if you put yourself or the kids first.
Is it fair to subject your children to his behaviour every morning too?

You may well have met him when you were very young and thus had no life experience to go on.

Do you actually want to spend the rest of your adult life with him?.

If you have children, what do you think they are learning from the two of you regarding relationships, is this really the role model you want to be showing them?.

I would do the email thing - listing all the 6 things within the 5 minute journey.

Then I would say, any more even close to that level, and that's it.

And no, I wouldn't be giving him a lift in the mornings any more until I felt the way he spoke to me had improved beyond recognition.

To be honest, the whole expressing doubt/dissatisfaction for a long time business would be enough for me. He knows where the door is presumably.