How far do you make allowances for 'how somebody is' when considering poor behaviour?

[BranchingOut]

I have posted before on here about my DH - at present we have more or less agreed to give our relationship one last try. The potted summary is that for a long time he has expressed unhappiness/disatisfaction and doubt about the relationship. Finally during a row in early May I told him that I was very close to saying that enough was enough. This gave him a real shock and he said that he loved me, didn't want to lose me etc.

This post is just to get some opinions on something that happened this morning.

He has always been 'not a morning person', so I have long adjusted to him being a bit sullen and grumpy in the morning. Likewise, he does not like being a passenger when I am driving and is critical of my driving. So, on occasions when he gets a lift with me in the morning he can often be quite irritable.

But this morning I noted that he uttered six things that were either directly critical, mocking me or questioning my decisions - within a five minute car journey. All 'small', but the effect is cummulative.

I might be a bit sensitive today, as I have a major deadline today, but I had a bit of a cry on my way to the tube station. I am also finding it a bit tricky to get focused and on with what I need to do, hence turning to MN.

So how far, in a loving relationship, should a partner make allowances for something that happens during a person's bad times/bad situations?
Would it be ok if he was just there grumbling, but not being critical of me? Where does 'that's how he is' cross over into unacceptable?

Many thanks for any insight.

Not to give him a lift, when he acted like an arse, the last time you were kind enough to do so, would seem like an assertive thing to do & not petty at all. It is a very clear indication that enough is absolutely enough.
After I left ex-H & had lots of counselling to find out why I put up with such bad behaviour for so long, the counsellor asked me why I felt the need to be so reasonable & resilient. She asked me if I thought I'd get a special badge or reward for my reasonable resilience. She suggested I should get in touch with my inner "Gabriella" - the fiesty unreasonable one of Desperate Housewives. It was very good advice & has served me well given I have very well ingrained natural pleasing tendencies and an irrational desire to be reasonable and resilient!!!!!

I would record him next time. Don't say a word, just let him bitch and moan and then send him a recording of it by email with a note - "One more morning like this and you are history."

I can't really answer this without remembering some of the things you've posted about him in the past. :(

You have to fight to get any respect from him at all. He does not deserve you.

The thing is, none of the things said were outright rude or abusive, they could be explained as joking or giving his point of view, but altogether they made me feel lousy.

That is the thing that I am normally resilient to - I brush off the bad feelings and get on with my day.

he is still making you cry

he is still belittling you

he is still verbally knocking you down

you are still looking for reasons to excuse all this

what will actually make you say "enough is enough"

(and I don't care who pays for the car, or whether is is "petty" but if someone snipes at the way I do something for them on a regular basis I will withdraw my labour)

euphemism's post propted me to do a search because your name was so familiar...ah yes, it seems that when this guy isn't whinging and moaning on at you he's giving you the silent treatment - nice.

You don't deserve this, love, you really don't. What gives him the right to make you so unhappy? What kind of a kick does he get out of it, really?

Does he drive?

When my dad started giving advice and getting all stressed about my driving as a recent licence holder, I started doing the same to him when he was driving.
He stopped. :)

Mind you that he did the same to my mum and she stopped driving not long after.
She doesn't drive to this day.
I know a few women who also got traumatised by the way their partners handle their driving and have stopped driving too. :(

This is how my life with xh was until he left.

The endless soaking up his "jokes" or outright criticisms but generally all of a "trivial" nature. I knew at the time it made me unhappy but somehow I rationalised it all one way or another and eventually years on believed it to be true.

It took MN and some serious reading for me to accept my xh was verbally and emotionally abusing me and how serious that is.

I cant tell you how much I dont miss that in my life , nobody speaks to me like that and they havent since he left almost 4 years ago

Verbal abuse which runs along the lines of 'you stupid blank blank, you've made a complete blank of that, get out of the blanking way' is awful, yet a lot easier to see and call out than the subtler variety.

The latter is disguised as unfunny jokes; unfunny name calling; a general smiling and patronising assumption that you haven't the faintest idea what you're doing; mild or not so mild sarcasm; the implication that you're not really capable of anything much; that other people cope better than you do or are more talented, or knowledgeable, or capable; that you're being 'put up with' despite your inadequacies; sighing, eye rolling.... and I'm sure others could come up with more, and worse.

I wonder if this bears any resemblance to what happened on your car journey, Branching.

Subtle all the way, hard to call out - the only clue you have is how flat and deflated you feel afterwards. You also get used to shaking it off and ignoring it, when really it shouldn't be happening at all.

A joke is funny.. for both people, .. This was not joking and you must know it.
You've mentioned resilience twice now. Resilient against your DH's behaviour? Really, you are definitely worth more than this. I feel bad for you, it feels so alone over there.
I get that you are in this for a long time, but if you have shown to be strong enough to live with this, you are strong enough to do it without him. Imagine what strength you can keep if he doesn't nibble away from it. Maybe you can turn this around I don't know but if you really want to I'd get a counselor. Someone who can help uncover some unhealthy patterns.

These were the comments. I feel a bit pathetic posting them, but I really want to see if I am reasonable or being oversensitive:

Talking about DS and his reluctance to use his toddler bike:

?He has inherited your fear of speed.?
?You can?t ride a bike?
?Well you?re not exactly a confident cyclist are you.?

On me pausing to assess right of way at a mini-roundabout ? two other vehicles there at the other junctions:
?Come on there?s no one there?

Parking:
?Why are you parking here??

On him getting out:
Not wanting to say/give a kiss goodbye

Finally when I asked him a miscellanous scratch on his face:
?I dont know, it must have been you that did it.?

Thanks for the support. I know that I must irritate some of you, because I have been on here before - but one day I will evolve, I will....I feel a bit worm-like at present.

I've just read a book by Kate Harrison called "Boot Camp" in which the heroine has a boyfriend whose constant criticism has got into her head...everytime she does something she hears his voice saying bad stuff like "Well you always give up don't you?" or "well you've always been lazy and fat haven't you?"

I honestly thought I was still reading the book when I read through what your husband said to you this morning. In the the heroine realised what a dickhead he was, ditched him royally, her confidence and life took off for the better and she met a fit kind bloke. Kate might have written that book as a bit of froth for the beach but it might be more use to you than all the self help books in the library.

Branching out, this is constant criticism and is not normal. He is pick pick picking at you for some reason.

I second what everyone else is saying. Time for action.

Just remember tho, take action and he will get the hump and blame you. You may then want to backtrack. Oh no, what will happen now I have done this????you might think.

But he is doing it. You are merely responding. I am wondering if there is much there from what you have written, if you stand up to him, it may all fall flag, but if you don't, it sounds like it is going to fall flat anyway.

Have you ,much real life support?

There's nothing funny in what he said and getting that with a scowly face is not nothing! If he made a pattern of this you are in trouble love.
I do hope you have some real life support, it may take time but you really do deserve better.

No, you're not being oversensitive, Branching. Remarks like these become a steady pattern of dig, dig, dig ..... with the constant implication that you're wrong, and you're not good enough, wrong, not good enough...

Even if we are tough enough to dismiss the comments as untrue, or the result of stress, or however we choose to rationalise/minimise the behaviour - we still have to expend energy just to do that. So you are gradually worn down whether you accept the implied criticism or not.

Compare that experience with being around other people, who leave you alone or are pleasant to you. The relief!

everybody has flaws and annoying little quirks that you can write off as "thats just how he/ she is" for example my dp snores like a pig, but i put up with it because its not really his fault.
however how your dh is acting is on purpose and you shouldn't have to think "thats just how he is" because he is being a dick and its not fair to you. just remember that you shouldnt have to lower your standards to suit others, they should raise their standards to meet yours. i guess what i mean by that is, if you dont want to put up with his behavoiur then dont. get assertive, tell him to buck up or buck off.

Branching Out, thanks for this thread, I've found it really useful. My ex H expressed doubt about our relationship on a number of occasions and was disrespectful in a similar way to yours as well as other emotional abuse, bad temper etc.

I finally asked him to leave when I found out he was having an affair. Later I found out he'd been cheating on me lots of times in our 20 years together. He told me himself he felt no remorse for it. He was too cowardly to leave till he had a suitable person with her own house to go to!

Meanwhile I tried and tried to make our marriage work to the point where I'd almost forgotten who I was.

Take your life back and be happy - your H simply does not deserve you.

You don't irritate and you must post as often as you feel

What comes across from all your posts though, is that your husband thinks he is better than you.

He is very very wrong.

So, how do you tackle this assertively, at the time, without resorting to anger/swearing/leaving the B?

Is there a form of words that would work, or should work?

perhaps you could try expressing unhappiness/disatisfaction and doubt about the relationship.......

branching while you make it clear that you will never end the relationship, no matter how he treats you, any words are inevitably going to be a waste of oxygen

I think the tit for tat tactics that some are suggesting are misplaced, e.g. refusing to drive him, recording him etc. it's gone way beyond that. You've already said to him that you are close to calling it quits. I sense that is what you really want to do and you are waiting for someone to say that it's ok. So I'll say it, call it quits with this rude, disrespectful, annoying and soul sapping man. I spent many years with someone exactly like this and made excuses for him countless times when actually what I should have said was 'fuck off, I'm not putting up with the way you treat me any longer, you make me feel like shit and that it's not my idea if a relationship. We need to end this now and I can get on with my life.' My life improved exponentially without him.