Why am I so vile? I'm ruining my life. (Long, sorry).

[hatemyselfmostofthetime]

I met my DP very soon after his ex walked out on him, taking their DD with her. In hindsight we shouldn't have started a relationship until he was in a better place. But we really liked each other and wanted to be together so we just took things really, really slowly.

They've always shared 50:50 custody of his DD but in the early days he was absolutely devastated by the break up of his family.

I knew I was in love with him from about six months in. It took him a lot longer to fall in love with me. I'd say it was the best part of two years before I felt like he was wholly present in our relationship. Up until then he'd always kept me slightly at arm's length. I found this very painful at the time. But he was never cruel or unkind. Just...distant. Because I loved him so much I stuck around.

Last year I got pregnant very unexpectedly. We weren't living together then and it was a real test of our relationship. He was happy to do the right thing - we planned to move in together and we were going to make a real go of things. Then I had a miscarriage.

The night I miscarried DP was staying with DSD on the other side of the city at his mum's house. And irritatingly he hadn't taken his car with him. It was a Saturday night and I went to A&E at around 10.30pm. I called him while I was waiting to be seen by a doctor and asked him to come and meet me at the hospital. He said he couldn't because he didn't have his car, DSD was asleep and he'd have to leave her with his mum (and the problem was...?), he'd have to get a taxi all the way across the city, etc, etc. So I said leave it then and I'd call him once I'd seen the doc.

Then it all kicked off. I was seen by the doctor but it was too late. She removed the 'products' there and then. My baby was in a biological waste bin and I was devastated. I found the whole thing really traumatic. Just awful. Awful.

I called a friend and luckily she was able to come and be with me and take me home. I called and called and called DP to let him know what happened but there was no answer. By this time it was gone midnight. He rang the next morning and I was an incoherent mess on the phone. I wanted him to come and get me right away but he said he couldn't because he was having lunch that day with his dad (long story but he only sees his dad about three times a year). So I had to wait until he'd had lunch before he came and picked me up with DSD in tow.

I feel so let down by him. I really struggled to forgive him for a long time. He maintained, and still maintains that he had no choice. Couldn't have left DSD with his mum, it was important to see his dad, etc. He also said that back then he still wasn't sure if he loved me or wanted to be with me long term. So, I dunno, he didn't want to put himself out?? Not sure why he needed to tell me that. He says it's better to be 'honest'.

Anyway, we managed to move on. Nearly three years later we're living together and I'm pregnant again, planned this time. But despite the fact that I've now got everything I wanted I can't stop myself being really vile. I suddenly feel very, very angry about his behaviour during the miscarriage. And I find myself saying really horrible things to him about how he was stupid to have a child with his ex because she's selfish and shallow and a shit mum. What was he thinking ever being with her? He's already got a family so my baby won't be as special to him. Etc... Just really nasty, insane stuff.

I feel miserable and I hate myself for being this way but I don't know what will make it better. I just feel like I will never, ever be a priority. Even when I was losing our baby and going through one of the worst experiences of my life, when I needed him the most, he put other people before me.

I've gone from having a really great relationship with DSD to not really being able to be around her. And I think that part of it is to do with the fact that he didn't want to leave her with his mum to come and be with me when I was in hospital. Maybe that's terrible. But I resent her a bit for that. In my messed up mind she was the reason I was on that table, bleeding and crying, on my own.

All this came out in a big row with DP the other night and things have been strained ever since. I feel awful because I know I said some unforgivable things. But I think he acted unforgivably too. I don't know what to do now. I feel like we could've been so happy but I've ruined it all because I can't let go of what happened and now it's colouring everything.

If you've made it this far then thank you. I'd really appreciate some perspective on this. So I can disentangle my own shitty behaviour from righteous anger at the way he behaved.

He owes you an apology at the very least.

I've done similar to a guy in my past in telling him I was unsure how I felt and he stuck around with me trying to changed my mind.

The differences were that I was 18, id just left home for uni and wasn't sure I wanted a bf at all. He was quite needy hence why I couldn't decide. This went on for a while. Decided eventually I wanted to be with him. he was happy for a bit. I made it up to him and was the most attentive and nice gf. He couldn't get over it though. He kept throwing what I did in my face. How many times could I say sorry and make it up to him?
I had youth and inexperience as an excuse.

he treated you callously and he owes you an apology.

OP I'm so sorry for what you went through- your miscarriage experience sounds truly horrific.

It was utterly disgraceful of him to leave you all alone to go have lunch. What a callous bastard.

The fact that he maintains he had "no choice" in his despicable behaviour is the root of the problem I think. So he has never apologised? Never acknowledged how he let you down when you needed him most (far, far more than his DD or Dad did at that moment)?

The fact is that whatever his pathetic umming and aahing about whether or not he loved you (his DP of two years?!) , you were the mother of his child and that child was lost. You were supposed to be in it together and he left you to deal with it alone. Totally unacceptable.

No wonder you don't have any closure. You're lashing out because your anger and pain at how he treated you has nowhere to go, it has never been released because he's never even asked for forgiveness.

If you want to salvage this relationship, I think you need to make him understand what he did and really, truly apologise and acknowledge it.
You might achieve that through couple's counselling, or, it might never happen. In which case you should walk away. (You might feel that the relationship is over even he does apologise, and that's ok too.) I think it would also be worth addressing in counselling (if you go) where he sees you and the new baby in his life and priorities. You should be valued and treasured alongside his DD.

for your pregnancy and good luck.

Hi OP, I am so sorry for what you went through regarding your MC.

From what I can tell, I think that the issue is here:

"I don't think you've forgiven him at all and if he's trotting out the 'no choice' excuse then he's not even accepting that his behaviour was unacceptable or distressing."

So you've not really forgiven him.
He doesn't really see how bad his behaviour was.
Any apology he does make is qualified by the "I had no choice".

I think that in order to move forward, you need to talk -maybe in a counselling environment - until he grasps then points above.

To do this though, I think you need to agree to discuss 1 thing at a time. So no mentioning of treatment of DSD while talking about you, and your feelings about MC - as they are separate issues and can't be tit for tat, IYSWIM?

If he wants to raise a separate discussion about DSD and your feelings for her, he is free to do so (as are you), but NOT off the back of you trying to talk about your feelings about his behaviour around the MC.

I hope this makes sense?

Really hope you manage to work it out. Enjoy the rest of your pregnancy.

I think intellectually he can appreciate that he was massively in the wrong.

But when we were talking about it the other night he inferred in so many words that coming to be with me at the hospital would've eaten into his access time with DSD. So on some level he still feels justified in making the decision he made.

It's that sort of thing that means I have such a hard time bonding with her.

Eaten into his access with his DD?!

But his access with her is regular and he would see her again. How many times had you been in hospital having a mc and needing his help before? Never!

You gave him time and space when he was grieving (for the loss of a relationship). You are still grieving for the loss of your baby, and yes, you can grieve for many years.

You want him to hurt and suffer - but you don't really. You are like me - when I get mad, I get really mad and have no way to calm down until I feel like I am going to spontaneously combust. This isn't good for your blood pressure, therefore not good for your baby either.

I would strongly suggest some sort of counselling now - for both of you. I think a third person being able to say to him 'hatemyself (awful name btw) is feeling ABC because of XYZ', and work to resolving it, not plastering over it.

For starters, don't add to your woes by blaming yourself:
I feel like we could've been so happy but I've ruined it all because I can't let go of what happened and now it's colouring everything.

That was such a traumatic experience I can well believe you are still haunted by it. Now you are pregnant again and awash with hormones and of course you will have this episode at the back of your mind. You are still raw about this and I agree you need to talk this over with someone professional.

Whether or not you associate DSD with the night of that sad loss, the question of priorities and the balance of him being father to two DCs with different women was always going to raise its head.

She will be a step-sister to your DC. I suspect that instinctively you are feeling so protective of your unborn baby you are wanting to distance yourself from her, seeking reassurance from DP that he will give equal priority to your child.

Words spoken in the heat of the moment can't be unspoken. However hurtful, shocking, that exchange at least highlights that before your baby is born, you need to be frank and open and let each other know what fears you have.

Sorry, that s/b, half sister, apologies.

Yeah the access thing is a whole separate issue.

He'd cancel his own mum's funeral if it meant having an extra day with DSD.

I don't understand his insecurity regarding that given that access has always been regular as clockwork and his ex would prefer him to have DSD more often than not.

And some men (and women) are just crap when it comes to medical things and emotions. He could have been using the access thing to avoid going through a massively upsetting and traumatic event. Selfish, but reacting to an honest emotion I suppose.

Moomins he says that if it were him in that position he wouldn't want anyone there with him.

Which is completely irrelevant because it was me in that position and I did!

You are justified in your distress and to be honest, until he recognises completely wholeheartedly why he was wrong to make the choices he did that night, I would be very worried about what sort of father he will be to your baby.

It is great that he takes his responsibilities to his DD seriously. Too many men abdicate this when they find a new partner. Sadly, he does seem singleminded about it though -- like if he prioritised you, in an hour of need, even once, this would somehow make him love his DD less. I would be concerned that this sort of simplistic thinking would make him incapable of being a dad to your child too. He needs to get some sense into him and quick.

"I suspect that instinctively you are feeling so protective of your unborn baby you are wanting to distance yourself from her, seeking reassurance from DP that he will give equal priority to your child."

Yes Donkeys, you are right about this. This is exactly how I feel.

Although, I've just realised I completely overlooked him choosing to spend time with his dad rather than be by your side at a time of serious sadness. Where do you think you really are on his list of priorities?

That is how he justifies it OP. He still needs to acknowledge that the choice he made was wrong, even if he felt it was justified at the time. People make mistakes, some of them horrendous - as in this case. I can deal with that. What i cannot deal with is people who continue to believe, for the own sanity above anything else, that the mistake they made was in fact the right choice even when all evidence points to the opposite. What he did has had a profound and long lasting effect on the woman he loves. How can that be right? You said you received counselling at the time, but it sounds like you really love this man and want to make a go of it, so how about suggesting some couples counselling? It may also help him to admit that the choice he made was wrong. Underneath it all he probably feels guilty as hell. If he admits it to himself out loud that guilt will come flooding in and cause a lot of pain, but it will give your relationship a chance in the long term and mean you can both move on.

Pomdereplay well back then I obviously came below his crap dad in the pecking order.

But when I first found out I was pregnant this time I said to DP that if the same thing happened again would he be there with me? And he said of course, he'd never let me go through anything like that on my own. As if the previous year's events had never happened.

The access time is completely irrelevant, she was asleep. He didn't get to spend any more time with her by not coming to you, he just chose not to come.

Yeah, basically tabulah.

Matana I think you might be right. He cannot own it wholly. It's always 'sorry, but...'.

I think that facing up to what sort of person he must be to be able to do that is too hard.

It's easier for him to focus on my failings as a step parent. Which wouldn't exist btw, if he could admit he behaved like a grade A shit.

I want to talk to him more about it tonight and try to clear the air or at least make progress. We're both just avoiding the issue at the moment and making stupid small talk.

I'm not sure what my angle should be though.

OP, you don't say how far into this pregnancy you are but I suspect your hormones are all over the place. Have you considered you may also have pre-natal depression? Of course your DP acted like a complete bastard during the miscarriage, but if he has completely turned himself around in terms of his behaviour towards you in the relationship then you obviously need help in letting go of the past. Like I said, screwy hormones may just be preventing you from doing that.

It sounds to me like this man is still not treating you the way you want him to. I suspect, even, that you don't feel properly loved by him, or else you would be able to put the miscarriage to bed. I hope this man steps up and starts to treat you like the greatest love of his life...otherwise what's the point?

I think maybe you just need to (calmly politely etc) ask him if he will attend counselling with you, because you're plainly not going to reach agreement about this on your own and it's a pretty serious matter.

In essence, I think Cogito's post at 11.36 is spot on.

I think you spent the first two years of your relationship basically inviting him not to worry about your feelings.

He was honest to the point of being brutal about his lack of love, your response each time was effectively "Yup, pummel me with another load of heartbreak, I can take it". You were holding out for a grand cosmic pay-off where he falls in love with you and is so grateful you persevered with him and "coaxed him out of his shell" and everything is wonderful.

And it sort of has happened, except it doesn't feel like you thought it would, and he hasn't had quite the miraculous turnaround in prioritising your feelings that one would wish, and your anger is awakening as you wonder what hell you went through all that for? Without at all excusing his behaviour, I think this history explains it. I think you probably both need to do a lot of unpicking.

Would you consider inviting him to read this thread?

Wow, very insightful MadBusLady.

I do sort of feel like 'what the hell did I go through all that for if I'm still second best in our family to DSD?'

I worry that when the baby comes he'll feel guilty that he's spending all his time with the baby and only 50% of the time with DSD. His over compensating is just going to get even worse.

Matana I have been mulling that over actually.

Maybe I will.

OP can I say something? I think you hate yourself because you know you should never have invested emotionally in this man. You knew from the very start he was unavailable emotionally (for two whole years he was in that post-break-up daze) but you continued to be his healer/psychologist/lover/surrogate mother to his child. I know because I've been there and it's bloody awful. I will never, ever take on another man and his child after his marriage breakdown. These men put their precious children on pedestals because they are the one thing they still have 'possession' of once the wife has left. We are there to pick up the pieces and to love them, always hoping they'll heal intact - but I don't believe they do.