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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

woke up to find dh playing with me

122 replies

overreaction · 28/05/2013 10:51

I have name changed for this. It may be normal for other couples but its not for us & I need to work out if I overreacted. Woke up to find my legs spread apart & dh playing with my clit. He said he thought I was awake & I led him on. I said I thought what he was doing was weird as I was clearly asleep. He has tried this a couple of times before. He got in a mood & slept on the sofa. I dont want to lose our relationship but I feel slightly violated. What do I do? What do I say? Did I over react?

OP posts:

mrsdrew · 30/05/2013 18:43

Little miss giggles... You are not unreasonable to not like your partner doing something and stating it but you may be being unreasonable to agree to like someone to give you oral and not want to kiss them afterwards because I also don't think anyone should expect someone else to do something that they wouldn't be happy to do themselves. No-one should have to do anything they don't like or enjoy...that cannot be debated. But if you are happy for him to put his mouth 'there' then you should not demand that he cannot then put his mouth on yours. If a man wanted a blow job but then refused to kiss you afterward....everyone on MN would be up in arms about it!. If you don't want to taste your own vagina then that's ok but then don't let him do it..

TheAccidentalExhibitionist · 30/05/2013 19:49

mrsdrew this is about the OP, not anyone else.
Littlemissgiggles was giving an example of one of her XP not respecting her boundaries in bed. She had the right to say she didn't like it. Her preference is hers, not yours.
When a DP insists on doing something in bed that their partner doesn't like then sulks about it the issue becomes about control and abuse.
Oh and BTW if my DH didn't want to kiss me after I'd given him oral sex I would respect his wishes and vice versa.

AnyFucker · 30/05/2013 20:03

mrsdrew...do you think anyone should be coerced into doing something they don't like ?

it certainly sounds like it

mrsdrew · 30/05/2013 21:00

No. Absolutely not. What I was saying is, if you DON'T want him to kiss you after oral sex (and any reason for that is fine) but he DOES want to kiss you, then don't have oral sex. It's not alright for either parties wishes to take precedence. He knows you don't like him to kiss you after and you know he doesn't like it that you don't want to kiss him. SO DON'T DO IT. Then neither of you are doing anything that the other doesn't like and neither of you are feeling hurt/rejected/annoyed.

AnyFucker · 30/05/2013 21:08

Giving/receiving oral sex is pretty vanilla

Not wanting to taste your own secretions is a matter of choice

The two don't necessarily have to be linked, and/or indulged in at the same time

I don't understand why you are linking them in this way, mrsd

It's perfectly acceptable to do one without the other

Most men like the taste of vaginal secretions...IME I would run a mile from a bloke that didn't

should women be forced to like it ?

no (unless you want to)

Original poster

overreaction · 30/05/2013 21:12

I can't force myself to do something I feel uncomfortable with. I'm so confused with his behaviour. We were getting on so well before this. This week has been horrible. It's hard to separate the 2 sides of someone. I keep thinking how good he is with the kids day to day, all the effort he's been making but I can't get it out of my mind. He won't come anywhere near me, says he's giving me some space. Says he regrets it & he misunderstood. He says he knows he has issues with wanting to be close to me & understands he disrespected me.

OP posts:

AnyFucker · 30/05/2013 21:15

he misunderstood ?

asleep is asleep, right ?

what bit of asleep does he not get ?

OxfordBags · 30/05/2013 21:17

mrsdrew, you're talking nonsense. I left a partner because
I found his sexual behaviour unacceptable; he used to always try to do a position that I found painful, knowing full well I hated it but thinking hisenjoyment counted more. By your logic, because I did enjoy everything else we did together sexually, I should either have let him hurt me or not had any vaginal intercourse whatsoever with him. Lmg's Ex chose to taste and enjoy her vaginal secretions - she did not. By your logic, a man should be forced to taste his own semen via kissing after a blowjob or a man or woman should taste their own shit via kissing after being rimmed.

I never fail to be depressed and alarmed at how hard it is for some people to see the pretty fucking obvious nuances of sexual consent and choice

Original poster

overreaction · 30/05/2013 21:20

He says my body was reacting.
He admits he didn't ask

OP posts:

AnyFucker · 30/05/2013 21:21

hey what about ass to mouth ?

(anal sex being a bit of a buzzword on MN this evening...)

you like anal sex...why not take it in your mouth afterwards ?

because you do one thing...you have to do the other thing

right ?

right?

AnyFucker · 30/05/2013 21:22

last post was to mrsdrew, sorry for cross post, OP

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 30/05/2013 21:22

Op, has he stopped asking you not to talk about it?

AnyFucker · 30/05/2013 21:25

OP, it is a well known (but rather unpalatable) fact that women's bodies react to being penetrated even without their consent

it's even been used as a rape defence

"m'lud, the evidence given in defence is that Ms X became wet during proceedings"

it's a physical reflex, like your eyes watering when you get a foreign body in them

it means fuck all

McBalls · 30/05/2013 21:27

I think he's trying to make you feel like your reaction is the problem.
How long will you be able to put up with him not coming near you? When you eventually broach the subject, what do you think he'll say?
I imagine it'll be something like
You: I'm feeling really upset that you won't come near me
Him: oh god, I can't win! You made me feel like a pervert for touching you, can you imagine how awful that feels? I'm too scared now
You: (if it goes how he wants) I'm sorry I made you feel that way, of course you're not a pervert, I'm sorry, I just want us to get back to normal please...

And then it all starts again. Except this time he's taught you that objecting to him using your body without consent just leads to a horrible atmosphere that you're responsible for.

Not coming near you is not him respecting you, it's not him being confused about boundaries or being scared of your reaction. He is trying to teach you a lesson.

OxfordBags · 30/05/2013 21:27

x-post, sorry.

OP, most men who rape or sexually abuse women can be perfectly nice in other ways because they can compartmentalise their sexual desires and beliefs. It is precisely the ability to compartmentalise them that allows them to give themself permission to be sexually abusive. It is part of how they allow themselves to see women as objects, as holes that exist just for them.

Sweetheart, any man who 'misunderstands' that being asleep is not consent to sex is either a liar coming up with excuses for being rapey and disgusting, or he is dangerously mentally and morally ill and needs urgent treatment. You've so far not mentioned him displaying MH issues, so what does that leave... ?

The way he is framing it is still trying to subtly suggest you are to blame and that he has no control over himself; he wants to be close to you, blah blah... What a crock of shit. Touching someone unconscious is the exact opposite of wanting to be close to someone, it's deliberately choosing to molest them when there is zero chance of any interaction or reciprocity whatsoever. But you know this. You know you don't try to rape someone sleeping to get close to them! All he regrets is that he got caught and you won't let it drop. All he understands is that he better pretend to be remorseful until you back down and things can get back to normal. Back to him seeing your body as some mere possession of his to do with as he wishes.

saintmerryweather · 30/05/2013 21:27

so now hes blaming you (saying your body was reacting) again? you were ASLEEP you did not consent and he sexually assaulted you whatever he might say. it was in no way shape or form your fault no matter what he says your body did. hes just tryinh to excuse his disgusting action and he doesnt sound in the slightest bit sorry

OxfordBags · 30/05/2013 21:31

But you know your body was NOT reacting, OP, you said you were dry. Ad it does not matter if your body reacted or not, without you being conscious to give consent, that was a rape attempt. This is not just a moral fact, it is a legal fact. He could (should) be prosecuted for that. Just keep remembering that; men have been convicted of sexual assault for doing the same thing to their partners. He has commited a sex crime against you. Sorry, rape minimisers and apologists, but I'm dealing in facts here, not blinkering.

mrsdrew · 30/05/2013 21:31

This is awful for you OVER. What he did was utterly wrong - there is NO excuse. There is no grey area there. But I understand you are confused about the way you feel now. It would be very easy for me to say what I think you should do or what I would do if I was you but I'm NOT you so I think I'll just say you are not in the wrong in any way. Neither in reference to what he did or feeling confused now. Don't be hard on yourself or criticize yourself in any way. You will make whatever decision you feel is right for you and your family and if you don't feel ready to do that now, that's ok too. And as lots of people have posted, there are many organisations that can help and support you whatever your decision.

Original poster

overreaction · 30/05/2013 21:43

So basically I married a perv without realising. Someone that was able to manipulate me & make me think things were my fault. And despite the good times, the bad times can't be forgotten. And I won't leave because I'll be the one that is in the wrong so I'll have to put up with a distant relationship until my children are old enough. I will never be able to forget his lies or his emotional manipulation but I am stuck. I'm thinking about all the people I know & the amount of women that are stuck for the moment until they can get themselves out & I realise that despite me thinking i was cleverer & stronger than that, I am actually now one of them. The people that I once told didn't have to put up with that will now be saying that to me. But I'll just have to hide the hurt inside.
Thanks for the advice mumsnet but I'm sure you realise that unfortunately there are many like me, living in a marriage destroyed.

OP posts:

Vegehamwidge · 30/05/2013 21:48

Why do you feel that you need to stay with him, despite hurting on the inside?

AnyFucker · 30/05/2013 21:48

There is no reason why you need to stay

What reasons are you proposing to continue a relationship with a man like this ?

Spell 'em out.

Your kids ? You think your kids need to witness a relationship where you STFU and he does what he wants (in more ways than one)

Financially ?

Have you even researched how you would manage on your own ? Or you dismiss it out of hand because it feels difficult ?

What ?

You don't know what to tell people ?

the truth would be a good start

AnyFucker · 30/05/2013 21:50

This is 2013, OP

It's hard, yes

very hard

but it isn't impossible to end your marriage

no one is trapped these days...unless you choose it

it may not be a fully sentient choice...but it's a choice nonetheless

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