I feel want to cry and really don't know what's the best thing to do with a forgettable husband!

[whosthis]

DS is 7 months. I am at Maternity leave but not enjoying it at all. DS is a fussy baby easily can cry for hours and doesn't like falling into sleep and therefore always exhausting at nap time or bedtime. I just posted on the other section that I didn't manage to do anything for myself the entire Maternity time at home. I often found myself exhausted (mainly mentally) at the end of a day but couldn't think of what has been done. I routinely skip breakfast now and lunch is often after 2pm ot even 3pm. DS has been colicy all these months and it takes ages to feed him and burp him. Then a couple of hours after, feeding time again...

Feeling want to cry just now. Planned to settle DS into cot earlier as he slept really poorly last night. Dinner done in time just before DH came back. As usual, I left him to eat first while I went upstairs to settle DS. He's fed earlier, but then he managed to fight for about an hour before giving in and fell into sleep.

I then came downstairs, feeling want to scream when I saw the kitchen to tidy up. I resigned to a sigh, and told DH we would need to distribute tasks after I go back to work. He agreed with no reservation.

I then went to the dining table about to have my already dead cold dinner. I had hard time to control myself when I saw DH didn't even think of cleaning his own plate. At that moment, I really wanted to scream, to shout and to cry...

This man is spoilt. I have been always thinking he's a lot more tired than I am at work and he left home earlier than me but came back later. We had a fee times talk on this subject, he "always agreed" saying "yes, I will -try- to do more". I know he meant it, but he never ever remember to volunteer doing any day-to-day housework. During my entire pregnancy, he barely helped on anything. He only did a few times dishes right after we had the "talk". He hasn't cooked a meal for over two years. He didn't even manage to "remember" picking up his dirty socks and pants into the laundry until lately I made it clear that I had enough.

I know (I do) he's genuinely with good intention. But somehow, in his brain, he is just not capable of keep it in mind. He's literally not moving a finger during the week.

I know I spoiled him. But first of all, I don't want to "instruct" him each time to do this or that. Should he be a capable adult to see what can be helpful?

Secondly, I seriously DO NOT UNDERSTAND , are all men like this, promising one thing with their full heart and then forget right away as soon as the topic cools down?

Where's the [tired] emoticon?

*it can be difficult to look after your baby.

• and I needed that adult conversation.

Ok flowery, I concede to that statement that some people are like that. Like I said, sweeping generalisation made, recognised and retracted. Again, will reiterate that was giving the OP suggestions on ow to manage the situation.

Anastasia no I don't think it is because I don't think that a man who thinks this way would think "oh crap I should have done that washing yesterday", they will think "why hasn't DW left me enough clean clothes?!"

It's just as simple as the fact that some men don't recognise that housework is the shared responsibility of all adult members of the house and see it purely as the woman's responsibility, which is why they refer to "helping" and see any small effort as being worth a lot more than the woman's input even when she does vastly more than him! I'd say in most cases this is unconscious on their part and it's more something they've never really questioned or looked at logically, it's just what they have picked up from their own upbringing, society, culture or whatever. They don't "not notice dirt" because they're a man and it's somehow in their genes, they may notice it but it's not on their register because they don't consider it their responsibility. Much like when you walk into a shop you probably don't really notice whether the floor needs mopping or something is out of place, unless it's extreme, because it's not your job to clean and tidy in there.

Forget trying to train, remind or cajole him if he has this viewpoint because it's not going to change his underlying belief that it isn't his problem. So you will be forever training, cajoling, he will hear nagging, you get frustrated because you feel he isn't listening (he is, he's just hearing something totally different!) and in the end you lose respect for him.

The only thing worth trying IMO for the long term is to try and show him a different way of looking/thinking about the problem which is where you say, look,we're both adults and actually this isn't all my responsibility, it's actually just as much yours and at the moment I'm picking up all of your slack because you're leaving it all to me. You wouldn't do that at work and it's not on to do it at home either. Remember you're actually doing him a favour/helping him out if you're doing the majority of the housework, which is presumably because you respect the fact that it's tiring working outside of the home and you don't want him to have loads more to do when he gets home. Just ask yourself if he is considering your needs and wellbeing in the same way.

If the perspective change doesn't work or he makes the right noises but reverts to type then watch out - he's probably just an old fashioned sexist bloke who thinks that housework is a woman's role not because he's just never questioned it, but because he's well aware it's a shitty job and he doesn't want to be the one to do it! I'd have to say that knowing what I know now, the joint responsibility towards housework is an absolute essential to me in a relationship and I wouldn't be prepared to go through the whole nagging and resentment cycle so it would be a dealbreaker for me if he couldn't -or wouldn't - see this way of thinking.

It is gendered absolutely. Just because there are some women who expect their partners to do everything does not negate the widespread notion that women are somehow "better at" or more built for drudgework or erase the last few centuries where women's place was seen as being in the kitchen, the fact that certain jobs or roles have traditionally been thought of as "women's" or "mens", the fact that the vast majority of families have some sort of set up varying on the woman being at home and the man going out to work or her working part time compared to his full time or her work being seen as less important.

It is gendered because all of this is reflected in culture and so it allows a man to quite comfortably and reasonably assume that he is not responsible for the housework but his wife is, of course, a good husband helps out but really this is a bonus, and not to question this unless someone actually points out to him that it's totally ridiculous and not based on any kind of logic anywhere.

If you bottle feed your DS, could you go away for a coupe of days rest and leave him to it? He would soon realise how much you do and how little he does.....once he has to tidy, wash, clean, look after a baby and cook etc.

No need to reiterate Kitty. You are by no means the only one on the thread who made the generalisation, most have not retracted it and its a wider problem anyway, described nicely by Yoni s posts.

I can hardly believe that people are still peddling the "ooh poor man, he's blind to dirty dishes and smelly clothes and doesn't know where the Hoover is" crap.

My dc are older now, but even when I was a ft sahm, dh pulled his weight, as I did mine. And he had/has an incredibly busy job with out of hours commitment and long hours (he's a GP).

He puts the washing on as often as I do. I tend to do most of the cooking as I have more time in the day (I work pt now), he does mucking out kids bedrooms. If there's ironing to be done, that's my job, but he (with dc) cleans out pets. We have a cleaner for part of the housework as I'm disabled. None of these jobs are male or female, we take responsibility for the jobs we can. Ultimately more falls on me as I WOH 2 days a week and do some freelance work as and when my disability allows. I tend to be the one to contact school, fill in forms etc, but he does the driving about as I'm medically unfit to drive.

My dh didn't need "training" by me, I'm not his coach. We did chat these things through before we go married as part of our preparation (we didn't move in together until after the wedding) and since then it's been an evolving dialogue. Even when the dc were tinies, he would do as much as possible - he loved spending time with them. Once I could express he I'd 2-3 night feeds a week. He still tells the dc the Tories of their differing personalities when they spent time together at 2am.

What I find really sad is that my friends and family think I've landed an "exceptional" man. No, I haven't. I've just got a decent partner-in-life who treats our life together as exactly that - ours.

Actually I agree with Yoni about the whole "gendered space" thing (dragging up my feminist theory from the rather early 90s at uni!).

What annoys me is we fit the stereotype - dh in high paying ft job, me in a pt lesser paid role with more responsibility in the home.

The thing is, I always wanted to teach, and I now teach in a very specific deliberately gendered (woman only) space, working with abused young mothers and their children. Dh's job allows us, as a family, to have me do this for a small salary (i work for a charity) as everything is in common in our house. Mainly due to my teaching background I'm better at looking after the children in the house (and I have a mobility-limiting disability, just as well) and garden - and swimming pool! He has a huge amount of outdoor pursuits experience so it's him on the bike rides, hillwalks etc.

It all sounds terribly gendered, but it's honestly just our very specific, rather unique situation.

Men are not 'funny creatures', it's not a 'man thing' and all of the other ridiculous excuses. There are lazy, thoughtless, irresponsible people of all genders and unfortunately you happen to be with one OP. So no tippy-toeing asking would he be so kind as to keep his own home tidy and getting stressed when it doesn't happen.... tell him to get off his backside or find somewhere else to live. This is serious. And as for 'I'll try' .... you can use my favourite Star Wars quote.

"Do or do not. There is no try".

He believes that housework is "women's work" and beneath him.

Forget all this bullshit about havining to "condition" him. He is not a dog.

It's a shame you are with someone who holds such sexist attitudes. Unfortunately they are unlikely to change.

The problem (as always) is that your husband doesn't feel responsible for housework. If he did and knew he'd be judged negatively by people who actually matter to him or would make his life difficult if he failed, he'd do it. Just like at work. So all the time a partner feels that it's her responsibility and everyone else who comes into the house judges her and not him if it's messy, this problem will continue.

The irony of women who take on a mothering role with lazy, selfish men is that invariably those men end up whingeing to some doozy about their wives being obsessed by domestic work and childcare and complaining that they don't pay enough attention to sex. Nearly every affair thread, the OP says that she did most of the housework and the childcare and that she ended up mothering her fuckwit of a lazy arse husband.

Stop picking up his skiddy pants.

Leave his dirty clothes & dishes where he left them.

Do not do any cooking, washing, ironing etc for him.

He will stop "forgetting" that you are not his slave.

If he manages to hold down a job he must possess the ability to do what is asked of him, even if sometimes that thing may not 'come naturally'.

To be blunt, he is perfectly capable of changing his habits at home if he so chooses. I don't think excuses should be made for his refusal to get with the programme.

Sorry he's making you feel so unhappy, OP.

Not all men are like this. How pissed off would we be if we saw a post that said 'women are .....' written by a man. Some people keep a house well and some people don't care about it or are lazy.

Personally I feel that someone you choose to share your life with should care if you're finding it hard and want to help. You need to look after yourself more too. Make sure you're eating well and resting, even if the housework suffers a bit.

The next time anyone says that she is not a feminist or that feminism is not necessary any more I'm just going to point them at this thread..........

My MIL spoilt all her sons did everything for them so when we got married my DH thought I would naturally step into her shoes. I do the majority of the cooking & cleaning because DH contributes more towards household expenses as my ''leisure time"' has a cost associated with it.

My husband would leave his clothes in little piles and then wonder why they didnt get washed but the ones in the laundry basket did. He's an intelligent man and he worked it out for himself. When we first were married and I had flu I realised how lazy and inconsiderate he was and when he got ill I treated him the same way which of course he didnt like and it never happened again. I am pregnant and he will clean the house and bathrooms without being prompted or asked and I still do my share of the chores so neither of us feel we are taking advantage of the other.

I always felt that if he couldn't help out whenever I was ill or at my most vulnerable then we didnt have much of a relationship but so far it's worked out. It's all about cause and effect. If people treat us badly that's because we allow them to! (Quote plagiarised from Eleanor Roosevelt I think!)

Not all men are like this

Lazy, entitled, selfish, over-indulged and downright cruel men might be though

Monka I get what you're saying, but next time you post about this, would you consider an amendment?

Instead of saying 'My MIL spoilt all her sons did everything for them'

could you write instead:

'My FIL spoilt all his sons by doing fuck all around the house'

Please.

I know I say this every time, and it's probably not very helpful, but if you don't want this to happen, hen only form relationships with adult men.

No man worthy of the name would be unable to look after himself and his family-and by "look after" I mean clothe, feed and provide a pleasant environment for. Or would fail to be considerate and courteous enough to respect his partner's wishes and feelings.

I have lived with three men (at different times, not all at the same time). They all had numerous faults (even Mr Inferior isn't perfect ) but they were all perfectly capable of cooking supper, cleaning it up, doing the washing and generally behaving like competent adults.

Actually the first one was messy...and I left him

Ahh.....men seeing housework that needs doing!!!!
I have a husband and 4 grown up sons, and the only one that will see what needs doing and do it is the son who lived away for a considerable length of time before returning to live at home.
DH (after 30 odd years) is good around the house but I have to ask/tell him if I want anything done that isn't in his list of household duties that he sees as his.
The sons are quite happy to do anything I ask of them but I have to ask/tell because they have other things they'd rather do.
None of them are sexist, its just to them it isn't that important, until they can't find something or can't move for crap.

OP I think you are just going to have to say on such and such a night please cook dinner and clear up etc, or while I'm feeding the baby will you sort the washing/clean the floor etc etc.
Don't let it build up and become a huge issue, because you are upset and overtired, he sounds like he's happy to help, in all reality he shouldn't need to be told but he obviously needs reminding!

I can confirm that it is not a gender thing.

I am female, and fairly lazy with house work because, yes, I do not agree that it should be my responsibility. Yet I do what i need to do, as I am the SAHP now. So if I do, any man can.

My DH is male, and is very good at house work, because he cares about it.

And anyone who has ever had a house share with other females knows that females can be messy, lazy, untidy, etc... It is just a role, and often someone falls into it if the others let it happen.

"None of them are sexist, its just to them it isn't that important, until they can't find something or can't move for crap."

Yes it is, if it matters to the women in the house! It's rude, disrespectful and sexist.

but I have to ask/tell him if I want anything done that isn't in his list of household duties that he sees as his.

There's the problem, right there.

It applies to any sons too.

In any situation in life, if someone is given the responsibility to do something and knows that there will be consequences and a judgement made if they don't, their eyesight problems clear up miraculously and they'll bloody well do it.

Hi ladies, I am a bit overwhelmed to realise this post became quite heated... It guess it resonates to more than a number of households..

I agree with all comments, especially when it comes to the pre-defined role a female plays in a household, men more or less incautiously put the routine chore on women's shoulder, thinking women do it better and probably shall be in charge of everything. It particularly annoys me whenever DH asks me "What do you want me do?" while he could obviously see if he ever bothers to use his brain or "Where did you put my swimming shorts?" while the swimming shorts were right where they are always, without exceptions - in his drawer with his pants. He just didn't bother even to look for it himself and simply opens his mouth to ask me. He does this all the time! Come on! You are a grown man, I am not your mum and you are not a 5 year old!

But all in all, I know him. He is no sexist. He would truly do whatever I ask him to do - no arguing back or negotiating. He just can't think himself or being proactive. And he IS spoilt and does rely on me too much. I am going to change it, as he agrees.

Last night, I didn't say much, but he knew I was really unhappy about this issue. He came forward to me and held me. I said he has to do something. I know no longer how to "communicate with him effectively", as the topics have been repetitively brought up but he's not really doing any better even after he promised each time. I am too tired of repeating it myself. And things can't keep going like this...

In the end, he said it's not he think women shall take all the work, it's really just procrastination - which often drives me nuts ("in a few minutes", "later", "OK, I will try to do it tomorrow morning/next week.") and it happens on more than household related topics, for things related to himself, the same. I am literally his PA.

I am going back to work soon. The positive side of it, if I can imagine, is probably it would be more than justified to ask him to take a significant share of it. We will just Task List for everyday and weekends. I would have very little time at home during the week. So in that sense, he can't feel he has less time than I do. Hopefully - finger cross - after a few months, he would be forced to build up better habits and from then we will try to maintain it over time.

I can't thank you all enough for the support and the ideas you've given. I had been reading each post last night and it did help me enormously...