DP angry and upset and I'm shocked

[Lovingfreedom]

I have been seeing a guy for about a year. Don't live together or anything but we are close. I'm not long out of horrible marriage and have kids. New guy always sweet, caring, considerate to me and to everyone else around him. All good.
Recently a close relative of his died tragically aged only 18. It is all difficult to deal with as death not fully explained yet (possibly super virus type thing).
He is devastated, naturally.
All was going calmly until the last few days. The cemetery, which is brand new, this being the very first burial, is in a bit of a mess. It's boggy, the paths are muddy, tyre marks and diesel spillages and the turf is in poor condition.
My DP has taken this on. He's written to council, MP, made some improvements himself etc.
He is angry and upset by his own admission and understandably.
He's cancelled everything else and concentrating on this.
Well, yesterday he emailed me saying that he had threatened to smash one of the council workers with a shovel and had to be restrained. He said he is horrified with himself for this.
He is well over six feet tall (6'5" or so) and heavy built and most people would find the prospect of being attacked by someone of this build terrifying tbh.
I am completely sympathetic of course to the situation with the death and the cemetery, but this revelation has shaken me. He is generally something of a 'gentle giant' very loving, caring and cuddly.
But I certainly wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of this kind of anger, not that I have ever previously considered that could be a risk.
What do people think?

This thread's confusing me - not your quandary, OP, but the posts making putative excuses for inexcusable behaviour.

I can't help thinking it's because he's a man and, well, we're supposed to excuse male violence when they're "stressed", apparently

So let's say a big woman charges angrily at you, threatening you with a shovel, and has to be pulled off you. Let's say it turns out she's upset because her relative died and she finds the colour of your coat disrespectful ... All okay? You'd have her to stay over at yours?

Taking time to reply to texts is not awful. It is one way of letting the relationship die, and it was in reply to a question by the OP.

Threatening someone with a spade is awful, though.

His obsessive behaviour and violence, even after a bereavement are red flags.
He may not be a bastard, as such, but it's definitely not healthy and not something I'd want to risk for myself, let alone with children.

Yes, Miggsie. Good summary.

i would be very wary of this man.

he didn't actually follow through with the threat but the threat itself is unacceptable.

I feel sorry for the chap that he is cut up about his relative BUT...given that you has extracted yourself from a "horrible marriage and have kids" I would say that personal protection is of the utmost importance.

For myself having been in a "horrible marriage" i do not trust that i would be able to adequately patrol my own boundaries of acceptable behaviour that well...probably neither do you: hence your dive into the nest of vipers for some advice??

if there is a small voice of doubt then get out.

the only acceptable level of violence is none really, although very occasionally one may understand eg Isatdown's example.... however if he won't let someone else take on the cemetery job or deal with his emotions then where can you go with this?

but the posts making putative excuses for inexcusable behaviour

Hear fucking Hear

All the concern over a man who is grieving (with extra added spade) and yet precious little concern that there are children who have not long come out of a horrible marriage potentially at risk of frying pan to fire.

The last thing they need is their mother in a relationship with a man who has a massive red flag sitting on his head waving madly.

It is not in their best interests for her to invest in rationalising away his capsicty for violence. Becuase if she guesses wrong the emotional fall out (at the very least) for the children is likely not going to be of the "kiss it better" variety.

Most men can go through grief and anger and frustration without lashing out like this. This sort of behaviour is not normal and I wouldn't risk having him around you and DC.

I would not end the relationship yet but I would tell him that his behaviour is totally out of control and he needs to get a hold of his grief and anger (with or without help) or you will be too scared to be around him. Maybe even that you are already too scared to be around him until he gets hold of this anger/grief.....

the thing is badguider we should not be policing someone else's behaviour. HE should know that this is wrong. And that he is dealing badly with his grief and seek some help. It's not your job LF

Carlevinum, I don't live with this man and despite having been with him for over a year, he has never been alone with the children. In fact I rarely see him when the children are with me, not through any concern for their safety, but because I prioritise them when they are with me. So your assumptions about my kids are unfounded. He's very been anything but kind and gentle before in my company and theirs.

That should say never not very!

DH lost his 3 best friends in their early thirties, in the space of 18 months. All randomly and suddenly and horribly. He has been angry, depressed, grieving, closed off, frustrated, bitter. His grief has overwhelmed him at times - he and his friends have felt jinxed and as if the world is against them. But he / they never threatened anyone with violence.

Miggsie and garlicgrump are spot on here. Please think of your own safety and your DCs.

I'm wondering how many people who are responding have been horribly bereaved? Grief can be so vicious it takes your breath away. You may feel you know all about it second-hand but until/unless it happens to you, you can't really know. For example, it is a very common coping mechanism to obsessively focus on eg the funeral. We also don't know in what context the council worker 'jumped over the fence'; or, indeed, what fence.

I appreciate that those who have been victims of violence will not have any tolerance for behaviour like this, regardless of the circumstances.

You've kept him at a relative distance, which is a blessing in the circumstances. I'm not surprised you feel you need to take a step back - I would too. (btw I can't agree with slowly tailing off re advice above. Bit of respect, please, not dragging out the agony of letting him know he's no longer required).

Yes, grief can be - is - vicious. Terrible shock the first time it happens. But not everybody becomes dangerously violent under emotional duress. And I cannot advise anyone to form a long-term relationship with a person who does. There will be other major stressors.

In his excuse, he cited 'disrespect'. That's a warning sign.

he has never been alone with the children.

YOU are. You spend time alone with a man who has the capacity for serious violence.

Don't you understand that any harm caused to YOU leaves a large window of opportunity to cause them fear, pain and suffering ?

You said they and you have not long come out of a horrible marriage. Do they not deserve you being emphatically risk adverse in your relationships so that you don't inadvertently bring "horrible" back into their lives again ?

If you can't see the massive red flag for your own sake, perhaps you might be able to see it for theirs.

If I had left a 'horrible' marriage I would be considering the possibility that the marriage had skewed my view of what are appropriate boundaries in a relationship. I would be considering that it might be possible that years of being in the marriage had clouded my ability to perceive warning signs of whether a partner is potentially abusive.

I would be thinking that the fact he is justifying his violence away a very bad sign.

I would be wondering whether I would ever be able to fully relax around him - whether I would have to keep making sure he doesn't get 'stressed' and walking on eggshells around him.

I would be contemplating the fact that abusers can take a very, very long time to reveal themselves and that seeing a year or so of apparently normal behaviour isn't proof positive that someone will not turn out to be abusive.

OP have you done the Freedom Programme?

I have done the online version of the freedom programme. This is seriously the first sign of trouble.

That's fine...take note of the first sign and decide what you want to do.

I think your children deserve better than to unknowingly risk having their mum bludgeoned by a spade, in case you too frustrate him at some point.

Or do you now plan to thread on eggshells and always agree with him, to ensure this does not happen!?

Seriously, you need to wake up.

I can see what you're saying Quint and I am awake to this. I haven't seen him since this news emerged. And the only things I've written to him since say it's completely unacceptable and he needs to stay away from the cemetery and get help.

The situation is unusual because of the age, nature of the illness that is unexplained and came out of nowhere, very traumatic medical treatment that ultimately failed, is the only 'child' in that generation and it's very unlikely there will be more, the cemetery is in terrible condition, it coincides with the anniversary of his wife's premature death and he is trying to take this all on himself and protect others in the family.

But yes, I am aware that the threatened violence is a 'red flag'. It's surprised me because, having been in an EA relationship previously, I am on constant guard for signs of controlling or abusive behaviour and have been wary of commitment. This 'seems' out of character but the fact that he's not saying 'omg what the hell did I do? I need to keep away from the cemetery and get help' is not good to me.

I think the initial "offence" of threatening the guy was bad but without knowing anything about him and his background that could go either way IMO.

My mother and siblings got in a (verbal) fight with police that arrived to shut down the party after my grandmother's funeral because it was midnight and the live band was too loud - I think one of my aunts threatened to punch a policeman for trying to enter the house - grief can do funny things to people.

(Luckily it all ended well when the police told them that they needed to end the party because "didn't we know someone had died today, we needed to be respectful to the family" and then we explained that we were the family, and they came in and had a toast with everyone.)

However, I agree with you - the subsequent attempt to justify his behaviour, and the reaction he had to your suggestion that he stay away from the cemetery and get grief counselling paints the original actions in a far worse light.

When our son died the funeral arrangements and treatment of his body after death were of the greatest importance to us. They were the only things left we could do for him. Waiting for official proceedures to complete before we could lay him to rest in peace was the hardest thing we've ever been through. If we had felt that the officials involved were neglectful, lazy, incompetant, uncaring, disrespectful it would have literally been torture. I can totally understand why the cemetary matters so much to your DP and why he can't see past it.

That said, his behaviour is clearly unacceptable and he is not coping with his grief and with the situation. If you are worried you need to stay away. But if you care about him be honest. Either tell him his behaviour has scared you and don't want to be around him anymore (ever) or that he needs help and you can't be with him until he gets it. It might prompt him to seek the help he needs.

And btw the cemetary situation sounds like it needs sorting out. Can you do anything? - letters to MP/local petitions/letters to local rag/town council etc. Or get a community group to work on it. I know that this is a little off-topic and not exactly your responsibility. But is what I would do if (and perhaps only if) I loved him (and this doesn't necessarily mean staying with him).

I wonder about the out of character.

Have you ever talked about it with his relatives and friends?
How often do you see him?
Not living together, or not seeing each other every day, it's easier to be on best behaviour.

I haven't seen him or any of his family for a few days. Last time I saw him was night of the funeral and he came back and stayed over at my house. We are usually in touch several times a day by email/text but we usually meet up once or twice a week at most. We've also been on a few holidays and trips together. We live about 40 mins away from each other, plus both work F/T - he works shifts. I have kids.

Thanks for sharing that JoJo - I'm sorry for your loss and appreciate you taking time to share your experience.