Would you be comfortable with your dp meeting up with an old friend...

[annabanana84]

...who happens to be female, very pretty and single?

They were good friends throughout childhood, and although they occasionally bump into each other while out shopping etc and say a quick hello, how are you?, they haven't remained in contact. There's never been any romantic history as far as I know.

Now they have arranged to meet up and go for a curry and a few drinks and a great big jolly old catch up, and I feel quite uncomfortable with this. DP doesn't have any female friends he sees out of work or otherwise anyway, he only ever goes out with his few male pals.

Just what worried you about your husband being without you and with someone else? What do you think is going to happen? Is he sexually incontinent? Do you think he will be corrupted by the singleness/prettiness of the evil woman who must only be allowed to supervise with a chaperone?

:o sexually incontinent.

Ha ha! Socialise, not supervise!

TBH I can't even imagine my unsociable bastard husband arranging something like this.

So I'm imagining what I would want to arrange with a childhood friend if I wanted to get reacquainted.

And the ones I would like to catch up with are women. And I'm straight.

So my perspective on this is not about sexually incontinent men or socially suspect single women.

I just think it's weird to put yourself in such an intimate social situation with someone you are still unsure whether you click with.

Not intimate as in sexually intimate, not click with as in sexual chemistry.

Just getting to know a childhood friend again after many years apart.

Agreeing to a whole evening alone together seems too much. I would want something more casual and that didn't potentially leave us with hours of staring at each other awkwardly waiting for our Lamb Bhuna to arrive.

I don't think that's unusual.

Only lust could make me agree to such a potentially awkward arrangement.

And even then I think my older self would offer coffee or lunch or a quick drink for a first date.

Whenever there is a thread about male-female friendships in any way, shape or form, it goes the same way. There is a proportion of people who think it is completely unacceptable for a married man to socialise on his own with a female friend (be she married or single). They can ONLY see their female friends in company and with the wife or girlfriend present.

I do think it is much more generational, not in every case, but often. People in their late-40s and older seem to find these situations odd and the only friends they have of the opposite sex are the husbands of their female friends whom they all socialise together with. People in their 20s and 30s seem much more ready and fine about having friends of the opposite sex and don't find it at all odd.

Sorry, but I have friends of the opposite sex, always have done. And I have introduced them to previous partners and done things collective. But no way would I accept an ultimatum from a partner that I could never see any of my opposite sex friends unless they were also present. That's controlling behaviour. And also would make me feel untrusted.

It would be a deal-breaker for me if my partner didn't allow me to catch up with my female friends every so often. She knew I had them before we became seriously involved, and doesn't mind - same as I understand that she has friends of both sexes that she wants to meet from time to time.

That said, we're always totally open about who we're meeting and where we're going, not because it's demanded by the other person, but because there's no reason not to be. And I go to noisy, fun restaurants, rather than quiet intimate romantic ones, because I wouldn't want to go to the latter unless I saw it as a date.

I could tag along when DW goes out, and vice versa, but we don't encourage it. It usually means a long and expensive train ride to meet my friends, which she wouldn't want to do anyway.

It is working for us.

My husband's breathing is quite weird... Nasal and mouthy at the same time... I should tell him because we are married it is my duty to prevent him doing things I think are a bit weird... Since we vowed to never make each other feel we were being weird and all that...

Er...I'm nearly 50.

I see friends I've had sex with sometimes on my own too. We manage to keep our pants on.

Whenever I go back home I always meet up with an old uni friend who happens to be male. If dh came along we either wouldn't be able to talk about the things we have in common- becaus dh wouldn't understand-, or else dh would be sitting on the outskirts of the conversation feeling like a fish out of water. They do meet sometimes, if I am giving a larger party, and they are capable of socialising like civilised human beings. But my friendship with old uni friend is very much based on shared interests which dh does not share, but which are a big part of my life.

When I was younger, some of my closest friends were female, some were male. Doesn't really make a difference to me.

I often have lunch with male colleagues at work. When I go on conferences I sometimes go for a drink with a male colleague. I don't think of having a meal and conversation with someone as an intimate situation: as long as they know I am not up for anything, it doesn't turn intimate. Intimate is having a romantic meal with dh.

Mother - I said often, not always.

I don't know any people in their forties or fifties who find the concept of opposite sex friendships uncomfortable, yet I know teens and twenty-somethings who do, so I'd disagree it's a 'generational thing'.

I personally find your situation very odd Offred where you dislike all or most of eachother's friends and appear to have no joint ones. I'm also wondering why you have spent what must be hours now on this thread trying to convince everyone that you and your husband are such free spirits and everyone else who's perhaps a bit more pragmatic about their own vulnerabilities or at least their partners' is being controlling and paranoid.

I'm not sure there's anyone else buying this very much, let alone you but I do think there are likely to be other posters who are being gaslighted by their partners into thinking that their lovers are 'just friends' who might be feeling very browbeaten and put down by your constant posts inferring that they are unreasonable and controlling because they feel threatened and insecure by the new work colleague on the block who their husbands used to mention all the time and who seem to be at an increasing amount of 'leaving drinks' or require a 'shoulder to cry on' because of the rough time they are allegedly having.

The OP might have long gone but there are lurkers reading your words who are probably already being made to feel unreasonable for their perfectly normal and rational disquiet about a new and threatening friendship.

Please think about this - and them.

We have joint friends. The friends that are our own friends are the ones the other one dislikes. Simple.

I've been posting over and over that the issue is not the meeting the friend it is the relationship. I stand by that. People who have healthy and happy relationships where they can communicate do not feel like this unless they have these jealousies or feelings of ownership or beliefs that spouse=property or men=sexually incontinent.

That's been my whole point all along. I keep repeating that the man in question may well be setting this up as a date but that it is the relationship in general that is the problem not the concept that being alone with someone of the opposite sex is a relationship issue to be micromanaged by a partner because that is a ridiculous proposition. Anyone reading the actual thread could read that I've written that repeatedly. It really is a stop focusing on possible wicked OW and think about the quality of the relationship.

I'm posting repeatedly on this thread because it's a current issue in my own life where people are constantly gossiping about me and it is pissing me off.

Badinage - interesting. On a previous male-female friendships thread I specifically asked about people's ages and the majority of those who said they had a problem with a man (husband or boyfriend) having a female friend they saw solo occasionally (or often) were late-40s and 50s. The younger ones were also more likely to have a good friend of the opposite sex they saw solo.

Of course there will be times as you suggest where some "just friends" are anything but. But the problem is that there are plenty of completely innocent friendships and similarly plenty of people on MN who seem to make those of us who have friends of the opposite sex feel we are in the wrong and that we're emotionally involved etc etc etc

Badinage do you not see why the idea that single women must be chaperoned is oppressive?

That men must be guarded by their spouses otherwise they will be unfaithful is damaging?

Apart from anything else it is not "being pragmatic". Vetting friends doesn't stop cheating, going out as a pair doesn't stop cheating, having rules about what level of intimacy/activity is allowed with married/single/males/females doesn't stop cheating. It has no effect on cheating at all, it doesnt prevent "vulnerability". It is often simply thinly veiled woman blaming like "don't wear a short skirt".

Ultimately you have to accept that whatever you do, in long term exclusive relationships there will be times where there is a temptation to or some cheating and it is up to the individual involved to actually deal with that themselves.

"I'm posting repeatedly on this thread because it's a current issue in my own life where people are constantly gossiping about me and it is pissing me off."

I find that unsurprising.

Your hostility to your friends' partners and your need for intense one-on-one friendships is something that tends to piss people off.

And not just because everyone else is so insecure.

"My husband's breathing is quite weird... Nasal and mouthy at the same time... I should tell him because we are married it is my duty to prevent him doing things I think are a bit weird... Since we vowed to never make each other feel we were being weird and all that..."

The OP asked for comment on a situation.

Rooney raised the point (ages ago) that the situation as described is not entirely usual for most people.

I agree and am discussing that.

Your need to assert that it is totally unremarkable to spend hours alone with a person you barely know is quite bizarre.

Particularly how much you object to spending time with people you do know if they are the partner of someone you see as yours.

You're asserting it is a person that is barely known. There is nothing to indicate that.

You are asserting I am hostile to my husband's friends.

I am simply saying I don't expect me to like them or them to like me or us to be required to spend time together simply because of a romantic relationship.

That fact I dislike most of his friends and he mine is not unusual at all because if we each liked the other's friend they'd be mutual friends wouldn't they?

It might not be unusual for people to gossip about stuff like this but I do think it is oppressive and unfair and actually pointless in achieving the ends of preventing cheating. If your spouse is arranging a date you have already lost the monogamy, banning them from going on it doesn't make any positive difference.

AThing - I think the issue is that others have widened it out to a more general comment on opposite sex friendships and suggested or implied that it is basically completely unacceptable for opposite sex friends to see each other unless their partners are involved.

Notwithstanding, others have said they don't see an issue with someone wanting to catch up with an old friend, even if it is years later. And if it is years later, there is probably a lot to catch up on so why not do so over a meal? Eating with someone is NOT an indicator of infidelity.

The OP's posting clearly suggests that if this female friend looked like the back end of a bus, there would be no problem. Or if she was married. Unfortunately, married and ugly people also cheat and have affairs. It's symptomatic of wider issues, surely, than simply catching up with an old friend.

If your spouse is gas lighting you focusing on the "pretty, single" friend is not helping but hurting because it is effectively a distraction from the manipulative arsehole.

Only lust could make me agree to such a potentially awkward arrangement.
But that's you, athing. Not everyone sees going for a meal and drinks as any kind of intimacy or a date. What makes a meeting intimate is the relationship, not whether it is dinner, lunch or coffee.

This thread has just reminded me I need to catch up with 4 male friends I have been neglecting terribly recently

I don't see anyone saying that women need to be 'chaperoned' and think some of this extrapolation is in your head Offred and is just projection because of what's going on in your own life at the moment.

I also fundamentally disagree that the problem is always The Relationship.

If someone wants to make one of his friendships sexual, the problem is with That Individual and his own personal boundaries. And that crisis affects a very broad range of people in all sorts of different relationships, from the serial shaggers and liars - to the man or woman who is in a content marriage or relationship, has no urge to have an affair but who imperceptibly allows a friendship to cross the line. The people in that latter camp delude themselves as much as their concerned partners, insisting that they feel 'only friendship' for this person who's leaning on them heavily and because contrary to what some folk are saying the cultural default is for people to be 'cool' about opposite-sex friendships, some men and women fear being seen as controlling and possessive more than they fear the burgeoning affair that's going on right under their noses.

The 'pragmatism' I referred to again relates to Individuals and I made that very clear. Any individual who blithely thinks he is immune from an ego boost when someone else finds him attractive is not being pragmatic at all. He is being delusional, both to himself and his partner. The people who know themselves very well indeed and don't beat themselves up for finding another person attractive, or worse beat their marriage up and assume it must be faulty if they do, have good boundaries and swerve friendships with people where there is an intense mutual attraction. Again, this is about that individual and his/her self-awareness and that's got fuck all to do with The Relationship.

I agree there's just no point policing another person's activity, but that doesn't mean that a partner has got to sit quietly by and Suck It Up, or refrain from saying a situation makes her uncomfortable. If the Individual she's married to is reasonable and self-aware, he might say 'You know, you're right - this is getting a bit close for comfort and I am getting a bit too involved with this person. I'd feel the same if this was you' whereas a Nice Man who Self-Deludes will say 'Sure she's attractive and good company, but we are Just Friends' (and carry on) and a Complete Arsehole will say 'I'll see who I want when I want and I won't take any orders from you'.

If everyone who had an affair with a 'friend' presented in daily life as a Complete Arsehole, life would be much simpler for his partner.

But people who have affairs with 'friends' are often a lot more nuanced and complex than that and their partners are the ones I'm thinking of when I read your dismissive, intensely self-focusing posts.

I'd hate it if there was even one poster married to a decent bloke who's crossing the line, who felt as a result of your posts that she should shut the fuck up and suppress all her instincts that danger is present.

This situation would worry me, and that's for a couple of reasons. I certainly have male friends who I've known for years and my husband has many long-standing female friends, neither of us would find it odd if every now and again, one of us met with them for coffee/drink to catch up on old times.

But- in this situation they are not revisiting an old friendship at all, they had plenty of opportunities over the years to be friends, but weren't- now all of a sudden they want to be friends I don't see the basis of a friendship, to be honest.

I would also be alarmed if my husband suddenly started going out on nights out to restaurants frequently with the same old friend- a once in a while catch up is lovely, with or without partner, is nice but once an essentially new relationship is being built, then it may become a problem.

She's not a valued old friend, she's someone from the past who has suddenly decided now is the time to renew aquaintance, and yes, this may be related to her being single. I would be suspicious and just tell my husband what was on my mind- if he thought I was being daft, he's just tell me to come along or reassure me, if he was up to something/hoping for something else, I would know.

But badinage, why would one assume that any one person who has a meal with a member of the opposite sex has to find that person sexually attractive or be found sexually attractive by that person?

We don't actually know if the OPs dh will find his friend attractive or not. All we know is that the OP, who is not her husband, thinks she is the kind of woman who should be attractive to men. Ime this usually bears no relation at all to whether a person is likely to be involved in a liaison or not. In fact, a great many of the OWs and OMs I have known have not been at all good-looking or obviously attractive in the eyes of other people.

you don't think it is a problem to be in a serious relationship with someone who is looking to break the agreed conditions of the relationship? The problem is the friend being pretty and single? pah...

As I've repeatedly said, the problem is not that a friend might be single or pretty or that your partner might be alone with them or want to be alone with them. It is entirely that either the partner is being an arsehole or that you are being unreasonable. Looking at the relationship, assessing why you feel worried and whether it is realistic (problem with a partner) or unfounded jealousy/restrictive beliefs (problem with you/compatibility) instead of focusing on the friend is entirely appropriate advice.

I have never said people shouldn't communicate their feelings, I have questioned why the OP has reached a stalemate with her OH and is asking MN to tell her what to do. This to me indicates a wider problem.

I've also said repeatedly that none of this is about pretending anyone is immune to flattery. It is about not pretending that behaving like a guard dog/vetting friends of your spouse has any effect because in fact it is utterly normal for people to be tempted or occasionally cross lines and what matters for your relationship is how they deal with that simple fact of life.

The OP's DP, from other threads, is not behaving well in other ways anyway.

the chaperoned part is nowt to do with my life. I'm not single, I'm married.

It was in relation to another poster who was single and posted to say they felt people were treating them as dangerous because of their single status.

no-one knows the basis of the friendship either.

The description of casual bumping into a person I called a childhood friend followed by a night out together has happened with me before. No-one knows the basis of their previous friendship, no-one knows their current level of interaction. I think it is a silly detail anyway. Why is the op worried? Because this woman is pretty and single? Why is that worrying?