WWYD about a self-inviting friend

[JessicaBeatriceFletcher]

I have a group of friends, we all get on well, spend a fair bit of time socialising etc. But there is one friend who is very lovely but has a habit of self-inviting, a trait which I find very rude (and I've discovered my best friend in the same group who feels the same way as me).

If she and a couple of others in the group organise a night out I don't say "ooh, can I come too?" She does. Sometimes we are able to steer around it but other times we just give in and one or two of the 'weaker' friends really let her dictate a bit much.

She suggested that she, her husband and my best friend and me did a big charity walk together. As she is not overly fit, we said we'd plan some walks leading up to it to help. Great. All mutually agreed. Next thing you know, she's invited all sorts of others to join in, without asking us, and there is at least one person who we would actively choose to avoid (an awkward personal situation).

She heard that two of us were going to Cornwall for a weekend (where she comes from) and tried to change it into a weekend for all four of us and we could do "XYZ". We managed to divert that one.

I don't want to upset her feelings, because she is lovely, very generous and kind - just overly social perhaps - but it's becoming too much of a habit and I don't know how best to handle it.

Do you find maybe that she is trying very hard? That her social needs are greater than yours? And whereas you are happy to just meet up sometimes, and sometimes with A or D or the entire Borg collective, she wants to be part of everything that is going?

"nor would I feel left out if I learned that four out of, say, my closest 12 friends, did something and hadn't invited me. "

Hmm, you see I would - and I wouldn't arrange something for 4 out of 12 people either. I have a friend who I've known for 23 years who likes to keep her various friendship groups separate, and she also quite often arranges things with mutual friends from school without inviting me. I've felt terribly hurt by it often over the years, and once actually cut her out for some time after one incident (won't bore with the details here). We're friends again now but I confess I don't consider her as close as I used to and I hold her at a distance a little now.

I think the way the 'avoiding stalker situation' has been dealt with is probably not what I would have done - I think what I would have done is ring Friend A and say, 'X doesn't feel comfortable coming now that Y is going to be there, so I'm going to stay home with her and keep her company, hope you understand'. You can't tell Friend A who she can and can't invite, or expect her to ask your permission to invite others IMO - all you can do is respond to the situation by deciding whether to accept or decline the invitation. It's then up to Friend A to either think, 'Fair enough, not too bothered if Jessica and X don't come' or 'didn't realise X was so bothered by what Y did, I won't invite him next time'.

I think maybe you would benefit from being more upfront with Friend A, without being rude - just saying what you think and how you feel in a simple way and without getting angry or upset or telling her what to do. Then both of you will know where you stand.

For every 'more the merrier' there us a 'less is more' type (me).

It's ok to do something with you close friends and exclude others. I don't think you have to do things en masse.

OP, just say that you really need a catch up with x and ask if they want to do something another time. it sounds liked this person needs a cast of thousands around. That would get on my tits.

Quint - I honestly don't know. As I put earlier, a mutual friend of mine and the inviting friend (but not in the Borg) had a birthday gathering. It was only small, she didn't want to go out for a meal or make a big fuss, she literally just wanted a handful of friends round for the night. I didn't know personally everyone she invited but I knew who had been. I was out with the Borg and inviting friend asked me in front of three of the others if I was going to this party, and I said "yes". She then invited the other three (who knew the birthday person vaguely) to come along. I think that's rude.

When I mentioned earlier about "weaker people", I am thinking of an occasion whereby two of the Borg (not me) wanted to see Evil Dead. No one else in the group likes horror films, so I can understand why just the two of them wanted to go. Inviting friend found out and invited herself along. The friends said "we didn't think you liked horror films?" Inviting friend said "I don't, we could go and see Iron Man 3 instead" and railroaded them into it!

OP FWIW I have no idea why you're getting such a hard time either? I have a group of 8/9 close friends but as we've got older some of us have got closer to each other than others. I see my BF on my own, and I know that some of the others see each other one on one too and it wouldn't cross my mind to invite myself or worry that I hadn't been invited. I almost think it sounds quite insecure to feel the need for everyone to do everything together?!

I think you need to be a fluffy version of direct when your friend does this. Recently my DSis tried to invite herself to something (for various reasons I just couldn't have her there) so I said something along the lines of 'we've had the evening planned for a while so I think it's easier to stick with our original plans, but we can plan something for the three of us in the next couple of weeks. I'm free on x date so we could arrange to meet then? I'm sure you understand'. That way I made it clear that her coming wasn't an option but also that it wasn't that I didn't want to see her. My sister is literally the most high maintenance person in the whole world and she took this just fine!

Does anyone ever pull her up on her behaviour?
Both examples you give there would make my hair stand on end.

Part of this is just different social styles. I'm like you, OP - to me people getting upset at not being invited to something is much more teenage! - but I have friends who tend to invite random people along to things we've agreed to do together - it used to annoy me but now I just expect it.

But the cinema example is bad and so is the stalker thing (I'm assuming your friend knew about the stalker situation?). I think you all need to be really clear about your boundaries and the consequences of her decisions - 'I'm sorry, but you know that X feels really uncomfortable being near Y, so now that you've invited him I'm afraid we won't be able to come.'

I think you could all handle the irritating aspects of her behaviour in a different way - for example, when she said to the two people who wanted to see the horror film, 'we could see X instead' they could have kept it light and laughed and said, 'Sod off, we want to see the horror film, come and see it or stay home if you're too chicken' or perhaps said, 'Oh I would like to see that film too, but really want to see the horror first - why don't we arrange another night to see your film'. I don't see why two adults have to be 'railroaded' into changing their plans, and if they are then they own that situation - it can't all be blamed on Inviting Friend!

Omg! I was on the fence until the iron man 3 example, that is quite shocking!

I don't understand why you are getting such a hard time OP. I think that the "high school bullies" angle is completely over the top.

Of course grown ups can decide they just want to see one or two friends at a time without extra hangers-on. Your friend IBVU! Try some of the tips suggested here and cross your fingers.

BTW - there is something very weird going on in Relationships threads recently where they get completely derailed by a few posters focussing on a random issue! Next time, post in Chat - you'll get a much friendlier response!

No sorry the stalker situation is quite bad as well, she just doesn't think, does she? How does it go down when you're blunt, e.g. 'That's v awkward you've Invited stalker, x won't be able to come'?

Quint - on the first occasion I had to step in and say, very politely, that I knew our mutual friend was only having a very small gathering. Inviting friend then said "she won't mind" and I had to get a little firmer, but still polite, saying "no, this time I KNOW she only wants a handful there, it isn't a party" and she took the hint.

Please don't get me wrong, I am NOT a bitch. This person can be very enjoyable company, but these instances of self-inviting are getting more frequent. Like Cornwall. The reason we are going is that my best friend got the two of us tickets for something that is taking place down there as a Xmas present and as it's four hours away, we felt it would be nice for the two of us just to get away. We told inviting friend this because obviously it would come out, and that we thought perhaps the four of us - or possibly others too - might go to CenterParcs a bit later on. All fine. We thought.

Month later the subject came up and she asked about it and said "why don't H and I come with you, we could do X and Y and Z" and I said "unfortunately, we've all sorted it, because like I said we're going down for this specific event" and she tried then to say "well, we can get a room at the same hotel and we could do X and Y and Z". I said "look, another time that would be nice, but this one is just for us. And we've got CenterParcs soon..."

So, you see why it gets wearing?

I am beginning to see what you mean.
It sounds like she has a very forceful character. Not only does she want the company, but the company should change their plans to do as she wants. I think that is perhaps the biggest problem? Not necessarily that she joins, but that she wants to control the content and what you do?

Everyone has faults - I, for example, am always late for everything - does this friend have sufficient good qualities that you still want her in your life? If so, I think you have to accept her flaws and handle them as best you can. I don't think it is kind or fair to want to mould and modify her as a person - she is who she is.

I didn't want to go into the specifics right up front because it could come across too much that she is a pain. It isn't as if she doesn't have other friends or family that she doesn't spend time with either.

It's getting to the point where she will ask "what are you doing this weekend?" and you wonder what to say because if you say anything you're expecting the "ooh, can I/we come too?" The trying to change other's plans hasn't happened too often, it is mainly the self-inviting a couple of us don't like. But then some on the thread seem to think it's perfectly OK to invite yourself to things, so maybe those of us who find it rude are in the wrong.

emsy - yes, as I have said she can be lovely and great company. I genuinely came here to ask how different people might handle it and I was quite surprised to be flamed as much as I was. I am aware it seems a bit drip fed, that wasn't intended.

I have personally never invited myself for anything, but dont mind if somebody invite themselves to what I am doing. It happens very rarely though!

How about asking her first what her plans are? Or will that just be an open invitation to for you to do something together?

Quint - maybe it's because I am such an interesting and fabulous person she wants to spend so much time with me ;)

I think that's the difference. Occasionally would be OK. But it's so often now, and I know (I know, it means people have said behind her back) others are noticing it. I don't think it makes us high school bullies though to just want a bit of respecting of boundaries.

No, I agree, it does not make you high school bullies. But I read your OP a bit like that. But of course you were trying to be brief and it just read like a list of ways to avoid one particular person.

It sounds like your friend invites her DH along a lot too. I have a friend that always asks if her oh can come along. If we are going to see x film, then we aren't going to change it. He sits there with a fave like a smacked arse.

I love going out just with my oh; they prefer to go out with others people. Both are fine but you need to give and take.

Do you think you can say anything next time?

I understood you perfectly well OP, think you sound normal, friend sounds extraordinarily tactless and pushy, and note that you are seeking advice on how to deal with this relationship, not to be told whether YABU or not.

Examples (just to see if I've understood the 'more the merrier' types correctly, as while I understand some of those answers, I'm astounded by the degree to which people seem to think this approach should be pushed).

• I am part of a group of eight from ante-natal class. We meet up regularly and everyone is always invited. But, when person x pops round to person y's for coffee, two of them and DHs do something social, or two other members arrange to meet up for a chat, should we all be invited (and all DHs as relevant)? Why? If those were the 'rules' those smaller events just wouldn't happen, as they're too spontaneous, at times that don't suit everyone, or - shock, horror - some people have particular interests in common or get on with each other better, at an indvidual level, than with others and wish to form binary friendships selectively, in addition to doing things with the group. Is that really so shocking or upsetting? Surely that's how friendships are formed and maintained? I probably do this less than others in the group but don't resent their friendships at all.

• More similarly to OP's situation, I have a group of friends who I know from the same place. Sometimes we all go for a drink and meal together, sometimes any two of us might do this or something else. The others might know but would not intrude, or mind. We all recognise that the binary relationships are slightly different from the group one and all value one to one conversation...

...which of course points to the obvious observation that we're seeing a difference here betwen introverts, who value a few, close friendships and quiet conversation and extroverts, who want to be surrounded by lots of people, all the time and have many friends and acquaintances.

So to answer your question OP, I think you need to be clear, firm and say things like 'well, x and I are doing this, as we particularly wanted to catch up with each other but perhaps we could all do whatever next weekend / I'd love to do something with you next week if you're free?'. If she says 'I'll come' just say 'sorry, wasn't I clear, this is just x and I, no-one else this time but, another time'.

I had one thick-skinned acquaintance like this as a student, who would tag along to something she didn't want to do, then try to change the activity and we'd have to organise something else for her to do so we could continue - as she couldn't possibly be left alone or expected to make her own plans with othere friends of course!! (very self-absorbed, needy, flaky). I also have one lovely but very tactless friend now, who has invited others to someone's party in front of them, so they were obliged to say yes, thus forcing out the ex-GF of one of them, who they'd actually chosen to invite. With him, directness works, as he's just a bit clueless but means well.

To my understanding, its a bloke that tried it on your best friend and has become a bit stalkerish?
If that's the case YANBU.
Just have a frank conversation with him 'we are having a girls night out..'

But if it was a proper friendship then it is very rude to discuss something and not inviting someone along.

I have one to ones with my closer friends, but if one person from our group is bored, has nothing to do then they are more than welcome to come along.

arsenal - yes, it was a bloke, but don't think you read the thread properly, as it was nothing to do with a girls night out and indeed the group (earlier known as the Borg - which I think was brilliant by *Quint) is not all women anyway.

It sounds as though your friend thinks the group is always the group (or any group of randoms she feels like inviting!) and, more relevantly, that she does not have or value one to one friendships, so just doesn't 'get' your desire for these.

That points to a different sort of response - you need to explain, each time, why you want to spend time with just one person. You think it's obvious that this is something people want and do, she doesn't. She thinks it's anti-social and just not as much fun as involving other people.

From reading the entire thread, I think you are handling it well JBF. You just need to have the script of your boundaries on standby ('these plans are sorted, sorry, we'll plan something soon' along the lines of other's suggestions).

Your question is: you are getting tired of having to actively/constantly manage this so what to do? I think a previous poster said it in that you have to accept this circumstance with this person, or not. And the 'not' option means dumping her. I don't think you can change her if this is a part of her personality. If you (and your other friends) have been hinting, etc. and she hasn't caught on, then, imho, she apparently isn't trainable in these circumstances. If she isn't toxic in having to be queen holding court or other ways, perhaps having to manage the plan boundaries isn't too bad?

My sister was like this- 'what are you doing? ....I'm there!' But it was a completely different dynamic that I won't go into as it'd take 1000s of words to explain...but I wanted you to know that I do get your perspective from experience.