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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DD abusing me - distressed

319 replies

Minifingers · 03/05/2013 12:39

Have posted about dd on parenting teenagers board under a different user name. If you recognise me, please don't out me, as dd sometimes searches mn to see what I've said about her. I don't think she has ever looked at this board though. I lurk on this board a bit. I thought I'd post after realising that what I'm feeling at the moment is not a million miles away from what what I read here from women in abusive partnerships with adults. I really need to off-load.

There's a special kind of sadness and shame attached to being abused by your young teenage child because underneath you are constantly asking yourself the question - are they like this because of the way I've parented them? And fear for them - for their future and their well-being. I strongly believe that behaving in a violent and abusive way doesn't just harm the person who's being abused, but in a spiritual and emotional sense also the person who's behaving abusively. That's really hard when you are a parent on the receiving end of abuse from your child.

A bit of background: dd is going to be 14 in August. Up until the end of primary she was a very easy and happy little girl. Unusually happy, confident and high spirited I'd say. She had a massive sense of fun and loads of energy, to the point that she'd always be the last child standing at any party or sleep-over. She breezed through primary in top sets for everything, despite being one of the youngest in her year. Her teachers LOVED her. She was very, very pretty too, to the point that people would stop me in the street and say what an adorable little girl she was.

Fast forward to year 9 and she's unrecognisable as the happy, lovely little girl we knew before. She's still sociable and has a lot of friends, including a couple she's known since nursery. But that's all that's left of what she was before. On the days she's not actively refusing to go to school (about 2 or 3 out of every 5 days at the moment - she just won't get out of bed), she deliberately makes herself very, very late. She regularly argues with teachers - just point blank refuses to do things she doesn't feel like doing at school, whether it's an assessment for PE, moving desks because she's been talking, whatever. She walks out of detentions if she thinks they've kept her long enough, refuses to do any homework, is MASSIVELY disrespectful to the teachers she doesn't like.

Obviously I've tried to do something about her behaviour. I've moved her school (she asked me to and I was unhappy with her old school), I have kept in regular touch with her tutor and her head of year. We have tried to put sanctions in place for bad behaviour (ie grounding and losing her phone) and made our expectations clear but we aren't the most organised people and her behaviour has been so universally bloody awful that it has got to a point where sanctions become a bit meaningless. And in the meantime she has become so angry, and so resentful of me in particular, and it's got worse and worse to the point where I can't see how we can go on, despite the support we've had from the school and from other agencies (CAMHS) to get to the bottom of her behaviour.

If you've read on to this point you might be thinking - So far, so typical of some teenagers, but I'm posting specifically because of her behaviour towards me and how it's made me feel.

Over the last few months she has become more and more aggressive towards me. She

  • daily tells me I'm pathetic and a failure as a parent because I have an autistic child (her youngest brother who is 7) and a daughter (her) who has been referred to CAMHS and who I can't control
  • tells me I'm old and stupid. Tells me constantly to 'shut up' and if I don't do what she says, says 'Are you stupid? Did you hear me? SHUT UP'
  • tells me I'm a failure because the house is messy and because I buy my clothes in charity shops
  • says that DH should leave me and could do much better than me
  • walks into the bathroom when I'm in the bath, even when I have the door locked and have said not to come in - she sticks a card through the gap in the door and unlatches it, pushes her way in and shoots disgusted looks at my body. Says she needs to wash her hands and won't go downstairs to do it because she can't be bothered
  • walks into my bedroom and pulls things off my shelves when she wants something of mine, without asking me if she can have it. She walks past me into the room, ignores me when I say 'what do you want?', literally physically barges me out of the way and laughs at me, just takes what she wants and walks out.
  • she has locked me out of the house when I've stepped outside to put something in the bin
  • she has trashed my room
  • she body-blocks me in the hallway of the house, sticks her face in mine and shouts at me that I'm pathetic and scared to make eye contact with her.
  • she gas lights me
  • she tells me I should just leave and why don't I give up and move out
  • she constantly points out that DH earns more than me and that therefore he is 'in charge'. I have pointed to her that this is not how finances work in a marriage (at least not in ours thank god). She ignores me.

..... and then yesterday she snatched my mobile after I refused to allow her something she wanted. When I tried to get it back off her she hit me around the face, knocking my glasses to the floor, laughed at me when I cried, and shoved me out the front door of the house.

She weighs 10 and a half stone and is stronger than me. I'm frightened of her.

I found myself sitting crying in the car and too frightened to go back into my own home. I ended up going around to my SIL's house. She came back home with me and persuaded dd to be driven round to my mums, where she stayed last night.

I don't want her to come home. I feel completely traumatised by the last few months - I have this constant feeling of exhaustion and a weird sense of vigilance - like I am living under siege. I suspect a year or two more of this and I'd have a heart attack or something. The atmosphere in the house is often awful and it's affecting my ability to parent my other two children.

And although I'm the one who is the target of most of her spite and anger, DH is also very stressed by it. He's a 45 year old manager and someone who I would have said had 'cast iron' good mental health. Yet she managed to make him cry last week. First time I have seen him cry in the 20 years we've been together. He's a brilliant dad, very patient and caring. He's made loads of time for dd the past year, knowing that she's struggling with growing up, taken her shopping, to the theatre and out to lunch.

I keep asking myself what I've done to make her like this. DH and I have been together for 20 years, and we have always been loving and respectful to each other, in front of the children and at every other time. We NEVER speak to each other in a disrespectful way.

I have not been a perfect parent to dd - I have nagged her too much about her lack of effort at school (and when I say lack of effort I mean lack of ANY effort, not a failure to reach some impossible standard of perfection), I have lost the plot at times and shouted and pleaded with her about her truanting and lateness. On a couple of occasions I attempted to push her into her bedroom when she attacked me. I should have walked away and shut myself in my bedroom instead of engaging with her physically. DH has admitted he's made mistakes with her as well, and has apologised for telling her she was a 'waste of space' (in fairness, this was a comment on her absolute refusal to ever lift a finger to help at home, including refusing to do even such basic things such as remove her plate from the table after eating, put rubbish in a bin instead of just dropping it on the floor wherever in the house she happens to be standing, or flush the toilet after she's done a crap in it). Can her abusiveness be our fault? Is it always learned behaviour?

How do I survive the next few years being abused and disrespected in my own home until she grows up and either leaves or stops doing it? How do I keep myself intact and strong as a mother?

If you've got this far - thanks! I'm going out to walk the dog (stress relief). Will come back and respond later if anyone answers this.

OP posts:
springykitsch · 04/05/2013 15:40

Parents and parenting is not the only influence on an individual's life. Do we all think we are a direct product of our parenting? Partly, yes - a large part, probably - but not all. We are individuals and have influences as well as choices. It's not all down to our parents or parenting.

It is precisely the idea that children are a blank slate and how they turn out is directly down to the parenting that causes so much confusion, and judgement, around this issue. And pressure, and competition, and crowing around parenting. If you've had a wayward/abusive child you can be an exemplary parent until you're blue in the face: they choose what they choose, and there's not much you can do about it. When they're younger you can put sanctions in place (though not many of us are prepared for the high level of terrorism and siege we have to negotiate) but, even then, they choose what they choose. We can't force, though we can certainly coerce and set rigid boundaries. I'm sure there are plenty of us who know how useless an awful lot of boundaries can be - eg someone suggested OP put her daughter's uncleared-up clothes in a bin bag outside the house; the daughter would just get the clothes back in and probably trash her parent's clothes as a retaliation. Or some such terrorist act. They mean to terrorise imo and are not the innocent doves people like to think. Which is not necessarily down to their parenting at all, or that they're necessarily miserable. I'm sure they are miserable but where's the chicken and where's the egg? Perhaps not getting their own way is what makes them miserable.

I am interested to hear a pp's accounts of life in SA ie the consequences of being arrested are so dire that it makes wayward children think twice. Our kids can quite adequately avoid consequences, which makes the whole thing long and drawn out. Consequences will come but they invariably take a long time; which is a blessing as much as it is a curse.

YNK · 04/05/2013 16:11

A parents influence at this age is on the decline in favour of all other influences, which is why the parents of teens need to work very hard to maximise the family values.

Minifingers · 04/05/2013 19:11

Hi Maryz! (waves)

Just wanted to give a quick update and say thank you again for all the advice and support everyone has offered before letting go of the thread.

Went out for a lovely day with other dc's. Had a call from my sister - dd had asked to be allowed to go to her friends for the day. I said no, that she was grounded for missing school 3 times this week, and I apologised to my sister for her having to enforce the grounding. But enforce it she did.

Got a text from dsis later saying that dd had taken our elderly mum to do the weekly food shop. Dsis was in ecstasy as she has had to to it every week for 3 years and it drives her potty. Can't think of anything more therapeutic for dd than being expected to trail around with my mum and her octogenarian friends for a few days.

Typically dd phoned and told me that she had her friends Oyster card (we told her to give it back last week) and as she wasn't allowed to go over, not only was I responsible for ruining her (Dd's) day, but that I was also responsible for ruining her friends day as she now had way of going out. DD just doesn't get it. She still doesn't realise how serious this is. She thinks its just me having a strop. Angry

OP posts:
springykitsch · 04/05/2013 19:26

letting go of the thread? ok then Confused

You can , of course, do what you like but you're still in the thick of all this, just wondering why you are choosing now to take off? But, as I said, your choice.

YNK - I don't know how old your kids are but I would have to say 'all the best' with your kids. Some things simply don't go to plan.

ElectricSheep · 04/05/2013 19:28

If you needed any confirmation that your DD's behaviour is all about power and control over you, you have it there OP. She can behave, indeed be nice with octogenarian dgm and friends which I'm sure takes lots of patience, but can't cooperate with you.

Is it possible that she can stay there, say until term finishes in July? If your Dsis and dm are willing it might give DD a chance to reflect and reset her habits.

Great that you all had a good day.

Maryz · 04/05/2013 19:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Viviennemary · 04/05/2013 19:36

This seems far beyond anything that could be remotely acceptable and be written off as 'going through a difficult phase'. Do you feel she can help this bad behaviour. Because I think that's important. Would a change of school help in any way. I think it's time to seek advice from a third party. Or call in social services and say you can't cope with her at home any longer.

HeffalumpTheFlump · 04/05/2013 19:51

Your daughter needs mental health help there's no question about it. You need to get her that help urgently otherwise she is going to ruin her life before its even begun. It sounds like you and your DH have worked hard to be supportive loving parents but you cant fix this. I am so sorry for for what you are going through.

JugglingFromHereToThere · 04/05/2013 21:22

I'm glad you had a better day. DD helping out her gran with the shopping is good yes ? Don't stress too much about the grounding/Oyster card bit hey - just try (again, yes, I know !) to get DD to accept some responsibility for the fact her friend ended up effectively grounded today as well, because a) she didn't give back card earlier & b) she was grounded for missing school on 3 occasions in one week.
But having said that also try to focus more on being pleased she offered to help gran with shopping, and did so in a helpful way.

Good grief, it must be exhausting - all the best to you all x

mrslaughan · 04/05/2013 21:28

Boundaries boundaries boundaries - as exhausting as it is.
Call the police - to bad if she wants to be a social worker - she is bullying you. -and this is simply not acceptable.

I like the stripping of the room - remove her door, she has school uniform and pajamas and everything else she has to earn......
She has found she has power over you, and is using it, you need to take it back, or kick her out.

Maryz · 04/05/2013 21:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Snazzynewyear · 04/05/2013 21:39

The Oyster card being in the right place is hers and her friend's responsibility, which at the age of 13 they should be able to take on. So Yes, she really doesn't get it and/or is determined to make every little thing your fault to guilt-trip you. You do need to work hard to resist that guilt.

Snazzynewyear · 04/05/2013 21:40

Maryz I love your versions of 'it's your own fault'!

Grockle · 04/05/2013 22:39

I have nothing helpful to add but I didn't want to read & run without posting. I have worked with children & teenagers with severe behavioural problems. I have seen the devastating affect it can have on families. I am so sorry that you are going through this. It is very hard to love someone who is being utterly vile & deliberately hurtful, offensive & intimidating. There's lots of good advice on here & you sound like you are being strong & have a good plan in place.

Please, whatever you do, don't blame yourself. And look after yourself... do something nice for you... be it a relaxing bath while DD is away, a trip to the cinema or a walk in the park, whatever. Make sure you have time to build yourself back up & feel confident. Much love to you.

Grockle · 04/05/2013 22:47

MaryZ... that's fab! I will use 'Oh dear...' with my DS(7), because everything that goes wrong is my fault Hmm & never, ever his!

Maryz · 04/05/2013 23:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

springykitsch · 04/05/2013 23:38

Thank you Grockle, your post is very encouraging. This whole thread has been 'encouraging' in its way - thank you for starting it Mini. I now have a whole host of friends who have appalling children (or endure appalling behaviour in their children) and I would recommend Mini that you find some support groups/parenting courses so you can meet others in the same boat. As with a lot of situations like this, it is the isolation that can be so painful - especially when surrounded by friends whose kids are doing marvellously and making seamless transitions into adulthood. I am delighted for said kids and cheer everyone on in my heart - i certainly wouldn't want anyone to endure what we have - but it can be painful to have it seemingly rubbed in your face, when your heart is broken but it's not a public grief, you have to keep it quiet out of shame and fear of judgement etc; and also because it's too unbearably painful. So there's nothing like meeting others in the same boat. It does it for me, anyway.

I pray (my head off) for my kids. As well as storm and rant etc lol - though these days I'm even too tired for that. I suppose I am more accepting as time has gone on. One thought occurred to me recently: God knows what it's like to have appalling kids. Horses for courses and all that but it has helped me to not feel quite so alone.

HoratiaNelson · 04/05/2013 23:41

maryz you use that level of passive aggression with your children and still think there's no correlation between the way you parent and their behaviour?! Confused when other people speak to me like that I find it hard to keep a lid on it but do because I'm an adult not a teenager and behaviour control is something you learn with maturity imagine if your own mother treats you with that level of disdain, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy...

Doesn't seem the most prudent way to calm an irate teen...

ElectricSheep · 04/05/2013 23:46

I must admit that was my thought too HN. Being spoken to like that would drive me mad. Kids have great bullshitometers and mine would instantly know that was a wind-up and react with all the respect such phoniness deserved.

Machli · 04/05/2013 23:50

I don't see that at all in maryz's posts.

Far better than screaming and shouting.

How would YOU deal with the behaviours she describes?

Grockle · 04/05/2013 23:54

I don't see it as passive aggressive either. Surely it's just logical consequences?

Oh dear, it's terrible to have to go to school every day when you don't want to but if you don't, your friends would miss you & you wouldn't learn X, Y & Z...

springykitsch · 04/05/2013 23:58

I have a friend who does precisely this - and you have to hear her do it to see how well it works and how genuine she is. I don't think Maryz is being passive-aggressive, she is being clever, using speech to make some observations and without saying a direct 'no'.

If you worked with your general Joe public, certain things wouldn't be acceptable or pass muster. If you worked with offenders, ex-offenders, drug addicts, alcoholics etc (as I do), you have to learn ways to say things from a reasonable and compassionate place, but without being too brutal. They just can't take it. Same with kids like this: you can't use the normal rules, this stuff is in a whole different league.

Kickarsequeen · 05/05/2013 00:05

Hi there, I'm so sorry this has been happening and reading through the replies you are getting some really good advice.

I may get slated for this, but I'm going to throw it in anyway. Have you thought about going on a self defence course? At the moment your daughter thinks she can push you around and that is adding to her belief that she has power over you.

I'm not suggesting in any way that you try to hurt her obviously! Or that engaging in a fight is remotely ok! But you should not have to just take her attacking you!!

It really doesn't matter how big and tough she is, if you have some training you can learn to immobilise her. If she attacks you and it ends with you sitting on her that will change her view of you.

I have dealt with problem teens in the past and I know they have given me less trouble than some others because they knew they couldn't physically push me around.

I think that becoming a teen is very empowering, the trouble is we all know the saying about power.

Good luck! Thanks

HoratiaNelson · 05/05/2013 00:05

I have had to deal with the behaviours she described, as mentioned up thread. I dealt with it in part by looking for a root cause and seeking help which improved the behaviour. On a practical level, I stopped shouting and started listening. It's amazing what you hear when you listen. It's an ongoing process but I try to listen to what I say too - if I wouldn't like to be spoken to that way, then I shouldn't be saying it to my kids. I have basic house rules eg we all eat together at the table, and only one meal is prepared and you eat it or don't get fed. No TVs/ computer games in bedrooms. Teens do their own washing and help out with household chores. And bottom line that you do these things and keep a civil tongue in your head if you want to live in the house - it applies to all of us. Easy to say, hard in practice, working for now.

HoratiaNelson · 05/05/2013 00:11

Of course it's said I a passive aggressive tone - the "oh dear" isn't it terrib you have to go to school - well it it's not terrible at all. Making observations of consequences could be an excellent technique if done in a fashion that actually involved listening to the child but given Maryz also reports thinking in her head at the same time "ffs what do you expect you fuckwit", rather suggests that isn't the technique being employed...