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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DD abusing me - distressed

319 replies

Minifingers · 03/05/2013 12:39

Have posted about dd on parenting teenagers board under a different user name. If you recognise me, please don't out me, as dd sometimes searches mn to see what I've said about her. I don't think she has ever looked at this board though. I lurk on this board a bit. I thought I'd post after realising that what I'm feeling at the moment is not a million miles away from what what I read here from women in abusive partnerships with adults. I really need to off-load.

There's a special kind of sadness and shame attached to being abused by your young teenage child because underneath you are constantly asking yourself the question - are they like this because of the way I've parented them? And fear for them - for their future and their well-being. I strongly believe that behaving in a violent and abusive way doesn't just harm the person who's being abused, but in a spiritual and emotional sense also the person who's behaving abusively. That's really hard when you are a parent on the receiving end of abuse from your child.

A bit of background: dd is going to be 14 in August. Up until the end of primary she was a very easy and happy little girl. Unusually happy, confident and high spirited I'd say. She had a massive sense of fun and loads of energy, to the point that she'd always be the last child standing at any party or sleep-over. She breezed through primary in top sets for everything, despite being one of the youngest in her year. Her teachers LOVED her. She was very, very pretty too, to the point that people would stop me in the street and say what an adorable little girl she was.

Fast forward to year 9 and she's unrecognisable as the happy, lovely little girl we knew before. She's still sociable and has a lot of friends, including a couple she's known since nursery. But that's all that's left of what she was before. On the days she's not actively refusing to go to school (about 2 or 3 out of every 5 days at the moment - she just won't get out of bed), she deliberately makes herself very, very late. She regularly argues with teachers - just point blank refuses to do things she doesn't feel like doing at school, whether it's an assessment for PE, moving desks because she's been talking, whatever. She walks out of detentions if she thinks they've kept her long enough, refuses to do any homework, is MASSIVELY disrespectful to the teachers she doesn't like.

Obviously I've tried to do something about her behaviour. I've moved her school (she asked me to and I was unhappy with her old school), I have kept in regular touch with her tutor and her head of year. We have tried to put sanctions in place for bad behaviour (ie grounding and losing her phone) and made our expectations clear but we aren't the most organised people and her behaviour has been so universally bloody awful that it has got to a point where sanctions become a bit meaningless. And in the meantime she has become so angry, and so resentful of me in particular, and it's got worse and worse to the point where I can't see how we can go on, despite the support we've had from the school and from other agencies (CAMHS) to get to the bottom of her behaviour.

If you've read on to this point you might be thinking - So far, so typical of some teenagers, but I'm posting specifically because of her behaviour towards me and how it's made me feel.

Over the last few months she has become more and more aggressive towards me. She

  • daily tells me I'm pathetic and a failure as a parent because I have an autistic child (her youngest brother who is 7) and a daughter (her) who has been referred to CAMHS and who I can't control
  • tells me I'm old and stupid. Tells me constantly to 'shut up' and if I don't do what she says, says 'Are you stupid? Did you hear me? SHUT UP'
  • tells me I'm a failure because the house is messy and because I buy my clothes in charity shops
  • says that DH should leave me and could do much better than me
  • walks into the bathroom when I'm in the bath, even when I have the door locked and have said not to come in - she sticks a card through the gap in the door and unlatches it, pushes her way in and shoots disgusted looks at my body. Says she needs to wash her hands and won't go downstairs to do it because she can't be bothered
  • walks into my bedroom and pulls things off my shelves when she wants something of mine, without asking me if she can have it. She walks past me into the room, ignores me when I say 'what do you want?', literally physically barges me out of the way and laughs at me, just takes what she wants and walks out.
  • she has locked me out of the house when I've stepped outside to put something in the bin
  • she has trashed my room
  • she body-blocks me in the hallway of the house, sticks her face in mine and shouts at me that I'm pathetic and scared to make eye contact with her.
  • she gas lights me
  • she tells me I should just leave and why don't I give up and move out
  • she constantly points out that DH earns more than me and that therefore he is 'in charge'. I have pointed to her that this is not how finances work in a marriage (at least not in ours thank god). She ignores me.

..... and then yesterday she snatched my mobile after I refused to allow her something she wanted. When I tried to get it back off her she hit me around the face, knocking my glasses to the floor, laughed at me when I cried, and shoved me out the front door of the house.

She weighs 10 and a half stone and is stronger than me. I'm frightened of her.

I found myself sitting crying in the car and too frightened to go back into my own home. I ended up going around to my SIL's house. She came back home with me and persuaded dd to be driven round to my mums, where she stayed last night.

I don't want her to come home. I feel completely traumatised by the last few months - I have this constant feeling of exhaustion and a weird sense of vigilance - like I am living under siege. I suspect a year or two more of this and I'd have a heart attack or something. The atmosphere in the house is often awful and it's affecting my ability to parent my other two children.

And although I'm the one who is the target of most of her spite and anger, DH is also very stressed by it. He's a 45 year old manager and someone who I would have said had 'cast iron' good mental health. Yet she managed to make him cry last week. First time I have seen him cry in the 20 years we've been together. He's a brilliant dad, very patient and caring. He's made loads of time for dd the past year, knowing that she's struggling with growing up, taken her shopping, to the theatre and out to lunch.

I keep asking myself what I've done to make her like this. DH and I have been together for 20 years, and we have always been loving and respectful to each other, in front of the children and at every other time. We NEVER speak to each other in a disrespectful way.

I have not been a perfect parent to dd - I have nagged her too much about her lack of effort at school (and when I say lack of effort I mean lack of ANY effort, not a failure to reach some impossible standard of perfection), I have lost the plot at times and shouted and pleaded with her about her truanting and lateness. On a couple of occasions I attempted to push her into her bedroom when she attacked me. I should have walked away and shut myself in my bedroom instead of engaging with her physically. DH has admitted he's made mistakes with her as well, and has apologised for telling her she was a 'waste of space' (in fairness, this was a comment on her absolute refusal to ever lift a finger to help at home, including refusing to do even such basic things such as remove her plate from the table after eating, put rubbish in a bin instead of just dropping it on the floor wherever in the house she happens to be standing, or flush the toilet after she's done a crap in it). Can her abusiveness be our fault? Is it always learned behaviour?

How do I survive the next few years being abused and disrespected in my own home until she grows up and either leaves or stops doing it? How do I keep myself intact and strong as a mother?

If you've got this far - thanks! I'm going out to walk the dog (stress relief). Will come back and respond later if anyone answers this.

OP posts:
Minifingers · 06/05/2013 22:19

Risk - great advice! I may ask the school if she can drop some subjects.

And you know, she is bloody marvellous with small children. I so wish she could get a job in a nursery RIGHT NOW!

OP posts:
cjel · 06/05/2013 22:33

Nothing I can say will get you to consider it will it? behaviour doesn't have to suddenly change, they don't always know why they are behaving the way they are. If they suffered abuse and woke up angry the next day that would be great but it doesn't happen, It sometimes takes decades for any behaviour changes to be noticed.I wonder why you are so adamant that its not a possibility?(Don't answer me it is retorical!!)
Enjoy your time with your lovely peaceful house, you deserve this time to catch your breath and see what your life should be like.xxxxxxx

Maryz · 06/05/2013 22:41

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cestlesautres · 06/05/2013 22:53

Maryz, iirc your ds had a diagnosis of Aspergers, which explains much of his behaviour, eg his extreme vulnerability to peer pressure. This young girl hasn't got a diagnosis of Aspergers. So what is causing her to behave like this?

Maryz · 06/05/2013 22:57

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cestlesautres · 06/05/2013 23:00

Surely, then, she urgently needs a diagnosis so that both school and parents (and extended family) can immediately adopt the right strategies to help her manage her behaviour, before she gets any kind of police record and a fucked-up academic career?

cestlesautres · 06/05/2013 23:10

Callthemidwife made a really good post way upthread: "Could I just add that it is vital that you really look into tha ASD stuff before dismissing it? The reason I say this is because some of the posts about being firmer and/or involving the police could have really terrible consequences if there is PDA or similar behind the behaviour because it can be the completely wrong thing to do with someone struggling with HFA." so it really is vital to know exactly what's going on.

cjel · 06/05/2013 23:11

Not accusing any one of anything and not the only one to suggest it. mini dismissed the idea because of instinct. Trust me it can be anyone anywhere -even in the most unlikely places and people. Very niave to think we know everything that happens to our children. I know of a case when a family friend used to pop to the loo or get a drink and aassulted the dcs in bed with loads of other people in the house. Even in the JS case the girls in the home said he abused them with staff in the room and who weren't aware he did it.I can easily accept the fact that it isn't abuse but if I had a dd so troubled I would want to explore every avenue and don't think mini is even open tothe idea. I repeat I am not the only poster to have thought the same thoughts. I think the statistic for abuse is about 1 in 3 and the way people react once they become old enough to know what happened to them was wrong may be as minis dd is behaving. Do you believe that all abusers are dirty, smelly and creepy? I'm gald you know your dc hasn't been abused but I still don't know why OP has rejected straight away several people who are saying that her dds behaviour is very typical of an abused person.
I also want to say that I really want to say that I think op has done everything possible for her dd and I am not critical of what she has done so far. She has got to the end of her tether so why reject a possibility of something she hasn't worked with?

Maryz · 06/05/2013 23:13

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cestlesautres · 06/05/2013 23:15

I reckon this child would welcome some help.

Maryz · 06/05/2013 23:16

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cestlesautres · 06/05/2013 23:17

Oh yes, certainly the help needs to come from someone else.

cjel · 06/05/2013 23:21

So what are we to do if a child is so damaged by abuse that they are self distructing and yet have been so horrified by what happened to them that they take decdes to pluck up courage to speak out? say hypothetically that a teenager appars violent and angry but are really scared and hurting at what point to we add to their feelings of self hate by punishing ? or alterantively keep trying to show them love and acceptance to try and build their confidence enough so they get ot a point where they can confide in someone? I don't have the answers but am full of questions!!!

Maryz · 06/05/2013 23:33

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Minifingers · 06/05/2013 23:37

Dd has a lot of love. And friends.

She has seen 2 psychiatrists and a child psychologist. She has counselling through school. She has never said anything to hint to me or anyone else that she has been abused. Nothing. Ever.

Many, many children will be difficult as adolescents. I was. My sister was, my niece is, my friends son is. For MOST adolescents who are depressed and self-harming or suffering from mental health problems, sexual abuse is NOT an issue.

OP posts:
onefewernow · 06/05/2013 23:51

I agree with Maryz about backing off.

I did. In year 11, and accepted the inevitable GSCE failure. However, it is interstitial g what sinks in from earlier tones. When she actuat got the results and passed only two she was very upset, and tool resits and passed more in the November, as well as attending an alternative level 2 programme for a year.

So all is not lost! There is hope.

But that was a consequence, wasn't it. Some consequences I used:

Allow the attendance officer to pay a visit, after discussing the refusal issues with the head.

Remove the phone anyway: it took a while but she cracked on the end

Refuse lifts and favours u less she complied with my few basic rules.

Allow her to let her hair get onto a terrible state through back combing , and then pay for the hairdresser to cut it, after she finally panicked.

A lot of consequences are not about removing things, but about refusing to enforce things which are their concern, them not bailing them out.

A good rule of thumb is " is this a my issue or a her issue problem?"

onefewernow · 06/05/2013 23:52

Shocking spell checking my end- on phone- but you get the drift!

onefewernow · 06/05/2013 23:54

Also, however crap her behaviour, praise any good thing at all.

StitchAteMySleep · 06/05/2013 23:57

Oppositional Defiant Disorder fits her behaviour pattern quite well.

Aggressive behaviour has been linked with nutritional deficiencies, (see here. If she is eating a lot of junk food she could be deficient in several key vitamins and minerals. Worth a look, I found this company in London that offer testing.

I remember reading a book about a BBC documentary from the 80's (will try to find, it is on my shelf somewhere). One of the studies mentioned was of behaviour in several borstals and how it improved once they changed to a balanced diet menu.

Have the Police mentioned YOT (Youth Offending Team) to you at all in your contact with them? I think they would be a good source of support too. They have early intervention prevention schemes.

Enjoy your week of respite Mini, very glad to hear your mum and sister are supporting you, just wish the professionals were more helpful.

springykitsch · 07/05/2013 01:14

I agree with cjel that the perpetrator of sexual abuse can be totally unexpected - in my dd's case it was her cousin. I had absolutely no idea. At all. It went on for years - in my house - and I had absolutely no idea. It was serious sexual abuse.

I'm NOT pushing the idea that your daughter may have been sexually abused Mini, I am just saying that the signs are not necessarily obvious at all. I found out purely by chance.

wonderingagain · 07/05/2013 02:00

DS's diagnosis seemed to pas dd by. She isn't really interested in him and refuses to learn anything about autism.

This could be a tell-tale sign of why she feels she has a right to behave despicably. When you say she refuses to learn anything about autism what do you mean? Have you tried teaching her or given her books? Being the sibling of a child with disabilities can be tricky. Could she have been left out in the past or felt she was excluded?

But whatever the cause of this, the result is that you have a child who is trying to push you away. The only way I can see that this can happen is to build up your bond again. The method I know is with younger children. Try to spend neutral time with her, where you sit near her or stand near her and let her take the lead. Don't ask her to do anything or say anything, or ask her questions. You have to build it up slowly and it will feel strange, small increasing amounts of time. She needs to know that she is important to you, as a person in her own right and not as someone who is guided or directed by you.

cjel · 07/05/2013 09:22

this is the last I will say on this mini because I want you to try and enjoy this dd free time, but as springy just said its a nightmare, Also many many victims go throught the system and take decades before they open up to any professiona, so that is not a guarantee that she is abuse free. Right thats it end of!!
I wish you every happiness in this safe time for you and your family and hope you can make the most of it - you definarely deserve it.xxx

wonderingagain · 07/05/2013 10:01

If there is potential abuse involved this method of simply being around physically but passively will help her to put her faith in you to speak to you. You are her Mum, deep down she needs you desperately, even if it appears on the surface that she hates you.

FarelyKnuts · 07/05/2013 10:56

Hi Mini I know I am coming on to this thread fairly late into the game but have you heard of Non Violent Resistance?
It was a programme developed by two Israelis originally and then adapted for use in prisons and with young offenders and then to young people who were violent in their own homes. I have helped a few families implement it with some pretty good success through my job.

springykitsch · 07/05/2013 12:11

Link?