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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DD abusing me - distressed

319 replies

Minifingers · 03/05/2013 12:39

Have posted about dd on parenting teenagers board under a different user name. If you recognise me, please don't out me, as dd sometimes searches mn to see what I've said about her. I don't think she has ever looked at this board though. I lurk on this board a bit. I thought I'd post after realising that what I'm feeling at the moment is not a million miles away from what what I read here from women in abusive partnerships with adults. I really need to off-load.

There's a special kind of sadness and shame attached to being abused by your young teenage child because underneath you are constantly asking yourself the question - are they like this because of the way I've parented them? And fear for them - for their future and their well-being. I strongly believe that behaving in a violent and abusive way doesn't just harm the person who's being abused, but in a spiritual and emotional sense also the person who's behaving abusively. That's really hard when you are a parent on the receiving end of abuse from your child.

A bit of background: dd is going to be 14 in August. Up until the end of primary she was a very easy and happy little girl. Unusually happy, confident and high spirited I'd say. She had a massive sense of fun and loads of energy, to the point that she'd always be the last child standing at any party or sleep-over. She breezed through primary in top sets for everything, despite being one of the youngest in her year. Her teachers LOVED her. She was very, very pretty too, to the point that people would stop me in the street and say what an adorable little girl she was.

Fast forward to year 9 and she's unrecognisable as the happy, lovely little girl we knew before. She's still sociable and has a lot of friends, including a couple she's known since nursery. But that's all that's left of what she was before. On the days she's not actively refusing to go to school (about 2 or 3 out of every 5 days at the moment - she just won't get out of bed), she deliberately makes herself very, very late. She regularly argues with teachers - just point blank refuses to do things she doesn't feel like doing at school, whether it's an assessment for PE, moving desks because she's been talking, whatever. She walks out of detentions if she thinks they've kept her long enough, refuses to do any homework, is MASSIVELY disrespectful to the teachers she doesn't like.

Obviously I've tried to do something about her behaviour. I've moved her school (she asked me to and I was unhappy with her old school), I have kept in regular touch with her tutor and her head of year. We have tried to put sanctions in place for bad behaviour (ie grounding and losing her phone) and made our expectations clear but we aren't the most organised people and her behaviour has been so universally bloody awful that it has got to a point where sanctions become a bit meaningless. And in the meantime she has become so angry, and so resentful of me in particular, and it's got worse and worse to the point where I can't see how we can go on, despite the support we've had from the school and from other agencies (CAMHS) to get to the bottom of her behaviour.

If you've read on to this point you might be thinking - So far, so typical of some teenagers, but I'm posting specifically because of her behaviour towards me and how it's made me feel.

Over the last few months she has become more and more aggressive towards me. She

  • daily tells me I'm pathetic and a failure as a parent because I have an autistic child (her youngest brother who is 7) and a daughter (her) who has been referred to CAMHS and who I can't control
  • tells me I'm old and stupid. Tells me constantly to 'shut up' and if I don't do what she says, says 'Are you stupid? Did you hear me? SHUT UP'
  • tells me I'm a failure because the house is messy and because I buy my clothes in charity shops
  • says that DH should leave me and could do much better than me
  • walks into the bathroom when I'm in the bath, even when I have the door locked and have said not to come in - she sticks a card through the gap in the door and unlatches it, pushes her way in and shoots disgusted looks at my body. Says she needs to wash her hands and won't go downstairs to do it because she can't be bothered
  • walks into my bedroom and pulls things off my shelves when she wants something of mine, without asking me if she can have it. She walks past me into the room, ignores me when I say 'what do you want?', literally physically barges me out of the way and laughs at me, just takes what she wants and walks out.
  • she has locked me out of the house when I've stepped outside to put something in the bin
  • she has trashed my room
  • she body-blocks me in the hallway of the house, sticks her face in mine and shouts at me that I'm pathetic and scared to make eye contact with her.
  • she gas lights me
  • she tells me I should just leave and why don't I give up and move out
  • she constantly points out that DH earns more than me and that therefore he is 'in charge'. I have pointed to her that this is not how finances work in a marriage (at least not in ours thank god). She ignores me.

..... and then yesterday she snatched my mobile after I refused to allow her something she wanted. When I tried to get it back off her she hit me around the face, knocking my glasses to the floor, laughed at me when I cried, and shoved me out the front door of the house.

She weighs 10 and a half stone and is stronger than me. I'm frightened of her.

I found myself sitting crying in the car and too frightened to go back into my own home. I ended up going around to my SIL's house. She came back home with me and persuaded dd to be driven round to my mums, where she stayed last night.

I don't want her to come home. I feel completely traumatised by the last few months - I have this constant feeling of exhaustion and a weird sense of vigilance - like I am living under siege. I suspect a year or two more of this and I'd have a heart attack or something. The atmosphere in the house is often awful and it's affecting my ability to parent my other two children.

And although I'm the one who is the target of most of her spite and anger, DH is also very stressed by it. He's a 45 year old manager and someone who I would have said had 'cast iron' good mental health. Yet she managed to make him cry last week. First time I have seen him cry in the 20 years we've been together. He's a brilliant dad, very patient and caring. He's made loads of time for dd the past year, knowing that she's struggling with growing up, taken her shopping, to the theatre and out to lunch.

I keep asking myself what I've done to make her like this. DH and I have been together for 20 years, and we have always been loving and respectful to each other, in front of the children and at every other time. We NEVER speak to each other in a disrespectful way.

I have not been a perfect parent to dd - I have nagged her too much about her lack of effort at school (and when I say lack of effort I mean lack of ANY effort, not a failure to reach some impossible standard of perfection), I have lost the plot at times and shouted and pleaded with her about her truanting and lateness. On a couple of occasions I attempted to push her into her bedroom when she attacked me. I should have walked away and shut myself in my bedroom instead of engaging with her physically. DH has admitted he's made mistakes with her as well, and has apologised for telling her she was a 'waste of space' (in fairness, this was a comment on her absolute refusal to ever lift a finger to help at home, including refusing to do even such basic things such as remove her plate from the table after eating, put rubbish in a bin instead of just dropping it on the floor wherever in the house she happens to be standing, or flush the toilet after she's done a crap in it). Can her abusiveness be our fault? Is it always learned behaviour?

How do I survive the next few years being abused and disrespected in my own home until she grows up and either leaves or stops doing it? How do I keep myself intact and strong as a mother?

If you've got this far - thanks! I'm going out to walk the dog (stress relief). Will come back and respond later if anyone answers this.

OP posts:
onefewernow · 06/05/2013 14:58

It is clear and obvious she is troubled. But it is more likely to be feeling that her autistic sibling gets more attention, combined with school related issues. There is nothing I have heard from the OP herself to suggest sexual abuse.

The issues she has will no doubt be got to the bottom of through CAMHS, where a referral is already in place.

But, at the same time, she will be feeling out of control and she will in part be frightening herself. So firm boundary management and consequences is a bloody good idea. And it will teach her to develop her own, if she has an issue there.

I think the OP deserves support and understanding for a very difficult situation, but suggesting abuse as more than one of many possibilities is not helpful, in my view.

Juniperdewdropofbrandy · 06/05/2013 15:20

Miniwhat about asking your dd if she fancies a weekend away just you two? Ask her to think about it. If you can't say it to her face (fear of rejection) then send her a message/text/email perhaps? Maybe give her some options as to where to go. Say it'd be nice to have time alone to chill out. It doesn't have to be expensive.

wordyBird · 06/05/2013 16:20

Mini, the book 'in Sheep's Clothing' by Dr George Simon may be worth a look: with the caveat that you might not agree entirely with the author's approach, and it might not apply to your situation at all.

But the author has worked with what he terms 'character disordered' people, including young people. It's another angle to explore at least.

Take care of yourself too - you have to consider your own health in all this (easier said than done, but you matter too, Mini.)

Maryz · 06/05/2013 16:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

motherinferior · 06/05/2013 16:23

One thing I wanted to add was that I think you are feeling guilt in some areas you really don't need to. No, she's not privately educated - yes she is at an excellent school. She has a lot of black/ black mixed-race options and role models around her. She could even get herself a bit of exercise if she wanted to. Please don't let her trigger guilt about those things!

cestlesautres · 06/05/2013 17:45

WordyBird, the child is only 13, she can't be said to have a personality disorder.

Minifingers · 06/05/2013 18:04

Now you see I DON'T suspect 'something awful' at secondary.

I just don't.

And I have had boundaries and consequences - for the important stuff like going to school . DD doesn't care about any of them when push comes to shove.

OP posts:
wordyBird · 06/05/2013 18:07

ces, the book isn't about personality disorders as such. The term quoted is the author's own, and the book is just one avenue to explore, among others.

StitchAteMySleep · 06/05/2013 18:39

Mini, we have all been focusing on your dd and her needs (which are important).

Thing is you are a victim of abuse and in any other circumstances a lot of support on here and otherwise would be focused on you, not on your abuser.

How are you feeling today? What do you need? Are you getting any support for you (counselling or otherwise)?

sunlightonthegrass · 06/05/2013 18:49

Mini, I have no real advice, to be honest. I'm just really sorry that this is happening to you and to your family.

How tall is she, to be obese? I am 5'3 and weigh about 10 and a half stone and my BMI is overweight but very marginally so, about 26, I think? x

Wuldric · 06/05/2013 19:06

I have been wondering whether your daughter's behaviour is exacerbated by this negative self-image she has.

You've done all you can in terms of gym membership etc, but gym membership isn't the answer for teens, and most gyms won't allow them full membership anyway. What about some form of exercise that is cool, and black? A street dance class maybe? All black people can dance (Before anyone takes umbrage, I say this to my own children because I can, because I am not white, and it is true. I don't know why it is true, but it is)

Also talk to her very seriously about her skin. Mixed race (black/white) skin looks gorgeous but scars extremely extremely easily. Get her to take care of her spots big time - really big time. She must never ever squeeze them, the scars don't go away like they do on white skin. Make-up makes things worse not better, she needs to look after this. Re-emphasise the message on food.

Get her the braces. She wants them. Get her them. But show her the consequences of not brushing and braces (ie permanently marked teeth).

I haven't got on to hair yet. Does she go to a hairdresser who understands Afro hair?

Finally, and this is my most important point. You seem to be fighting this battle all alone, or with support from agencies whom I suspect will be useless. You need family engagement with this. When my own DD had troubles, the extended family were a godsend. Get the aunts and uncles and cousins onside. Most of all, get your DH onside. Get him to tell her she is beautiful but she needs to look after herself. Ensure that all of you are eating properly and model that for her.

Wuldric · 06/05/2013 19:18

Oh, I don't know if any of this is of any use whatsoever (and tell me to shut up if it isn't) show her that what works is positivity. Try to explain to her that her future is her own, in her own hands. You've never said whether or not your DD was academic, and if she isn't particularly academic then this is going to be harder. But still she needs to carve out her own future. Try to engage with her as to what that might be and how she might get there. You honestly cannot do this alone.

I do not think that any form of therapy for your DD will help because she will refuse to engage with it (as did mine). But therapy for you will help. Help you to find serenity and peace and a way of coping with this awful battle when you are fighting for her and she is fighting against you.

springykitsch · 06/05/2013 19:59

Even if she agrees to a w/e away - unlikely - she would very probably scream at OP in the street, throw tantrums in public, endlessly manipulate every possible scenario. The chances are it would be hell. The idea that she would suddenly come to her senses, that some humanity would be plumbed somehow, it just too far-fetched ime. She's in full-flight at present, I can't see a w/e away with her loathed mother could possible be some kind of magic solution.

btw re polite: I am not suggesting to be impolite, just not to scrape the floor in a kind of pleading technique. I'm not suggesting you are doing that MIni (though perhaps I feared you were - apologies) but the margins are so hairs-breadth that imo flat and emotionless is an effective way to negotiate communication of any kind. Hence statements. Though I hear what you're saying Maryz re the 'oh dear' approach.

On the back of my kitchen cabinet, I taped up a piece I found about how to effectively communicate with narcissists (or as effectively as possible, in the circs). I had a narcissist ex and it was a great help to have some tips on how to negotiate the minefield that was any communication with him. I am not suggesting our wayward children are narcissists but imo the profile is remarkably similar - we just hope they'll grow out of it please God. The narcissist ex died, and I tore that piece down and threw it in the bin with a flourish. I so wish I hadn't, I could do with it now...

Iirc, it went something like: 'Speak in statements. Never show surprise, or any emotion, at the things they say and do. Instead say things like 'that's an interesting perspective, perhaps you could talk me through that'. Don't let them know they have hurt you, they will endlessly use it in future' [NB which is why therapy with an abuser/narcissist is signing your death warrant].

As I said, I dearly wish I hadn't thrown it away.

springykitsch · 06/05/2013 20:07

My kids wouldn't go to a hairdresser who understood afro hair. Nor would they use any of the hair products I spent a small fortune buying. Hmm

springykitsch · 06/05/2013 20:12

My extended family have been desperately 'unhelpful' [understatement] . Some of us come from toxic families, some of us have done the parenting alone with very little outside support (or, as in my case, specific toxic meddling eg siding with my kids), despite our extensive efforts to cobble together some kind of outside support/influence. I'm not reaching for the violins, just that the family support we'd all like and know to be so vital is not necessarily on hand, through no fault of our own, or the children's.

Plus you have to keep all that shit away from your kids, somehow cover for it.

cjel · 06/05/2013 21:37

Mini - you say surley there would be some signs of sexual abuse - what signs do you need. an unhappy selfharming dd who is angry 'for no reason' who can't concentrate on school, whos mind is so full of crap she is constantly a mess ?? Who cares so little about herself she will happily attack people who love her, doesn't care if she gets in trouble even with school and police. HOw many red flags do you need??xx

Minifingers · 06/05/2013 21:37

Wuldric I have done everything I can to help - suggested street dance (no); bought her skin care 'systems' (won't use them); made her fruit and veg smoothies (drinks them then sneaks out and buys chips and chocolate). Her hair is European in texture and is long and curly. I have spent more on hairdressers for her than for me this past year.

Honestly - whatever I say, she ignores or does the opposite.

She is bright and quick witted and could do anything she wanted. But at this rate will be leaving school with a handful of GCSE's at grade C. If that. I have given up trying to talk about her future. She WILL NOT LISTEN.

I do have supportive family, thank fuck. Dd is at my mums right now and will be there for at least another week, if not longer. My darling sister is taking her in hand - she's so kind, so sensible. :-)

So ATM - I'm ok :-)

OP posts:
Minifingers · 06/05/2013 21:45

Cjel - I was an angry, self harming teen. Gave my parents a hard time (though nothing like as bad as dd is giving me!). I flirted with eating disorders (I was 6 stone 10lbs and 5ft 6inches) and drug use, did barely any school work and was asked to leave kicked out of my private school. I had not been sexually abused. I think you may be projecting.

OP posts:
Minifingers · 06/05/2013 21:51

Oh, and she CAN focus and achieve in the subjects she likes. And far from being mired in depression she's usually very high spirited. Happy. As long as she's doing EXACTLY what she feels like doing. She has a massive problem with compliance and not being able to cope with deferring gratification. This has generated so many other problems between us and in relation to her school life.

OP posts:
cjel · 06/05/2013 21:52

I am not projecting. I am trying to offer you a potential reason for dds behaviour. You say your instinct would know - it wouldn't, if only it was that easy we wouldn't need to train for years!!you also asked if there would be some signs and I just pointed out that you had shed loads of them!!

Wuldric · 06/05/2013 21:57

I geddit partly, I do, honestly.

Can I ask you a question? Where is your DH in all this? You've talked about support from your side of the family - your mum and your sister. Where is your DH and his side of the family. Why are we not all united here doing the best for Mini? Is there any conflict in terms of aspirations or values that she is trying to process?

riskit4abiskit · 06/05/2013 22:09

ok, no experience here, but I do work in education.

You say your d is bright but only tries in some subjects? could you focus her by saying that she could 'drop' maths at school, if she hates it so much IF she can get a 'C' grade at GCSE within a year. Then, you could get a tutor to help with this if possible, and it might help her self-esteem. she could do an a/s level type course, or work experience placement in the 'gained' time, and thus working towards the career in childcare you mentioned.

OR

if she IS bright, she can always come back to school at a later date and sit GCSEs - I would ask the school to be a bit more flexible and lower her timetable to the subjects that will avoid conflict - at least in the short-term so she is more likely to go to school and give you a break at home.

OR could you get a job volunteering with children, at local library sessions, city farm, RSPCA centre etc? I know she is too young for an actual job. The worst behaved teens at school are at their best around smaller kids and animals surprisingly, and you did mention she liked the idea of this type of career.

OR

Could you take her on open days to local colleges / universities to try and inspire her - I admit this sounds trite but might work in tandem with one of the above scenarios.

sorry if this sounds shite advice, but I think the more she is cooped up at home with you, the harder life will be for everyone. You are doing a great job OP, keep strong.

xxx

Maryz · 06/05/2013 22:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Minifingers · 06/05/2013 22:11

Cjel - I don't think she is being or has been sexually abused. Her behaviour didn't suddenly change. She became more and more defiant over a period of 3 years. The defiance resulted in us putting sanctions in place and to confrontations. Her response to this was anger and increased defiance.

OP posts:
Minifingers · 06/05/2013 22:15

Wudric - DH and I are together in this. He is very, very patient and loving with dd. or he tries to be. He backs me up all the way. He's strong when I'm at my wits end, and I am strong when he has had enough. His mum is great too, and his sister - well I couldn't ask for a better or more understanding SIL. She has been very supportive of us.

OP posts: