Subtle EA? Or is it just me? Confused, please help

[WearingFuckMeSocks]

I sincerely apologise in advance for the length of this post, feel free to skim bits if it makes it easier.

I have lurked here for sometime, have stumbled across the support thread for those in emotionally abusive relationships, have never thought of DH as abusive as he?s never hit me but I?ve been unhappy for a while and couldn't understand why, he?s not overtly abusive, doesn't call me names or put me down in any obvious way, but over the 15 years we?ve been together has done some pretty shitty things. (We?ve been together 15 years, married for 10 and have ds age 7 and dd age 5)

only months after we got together I discovered I was pregnant, I hoped to sit down & discuss it like adults with him; he burst into tears, wailed, sobbed, put his head in his hands and begged me to have an abortion. I would have done anyway but didn't feel like I had a choice. The very fact that I was considering keeping it seemed to offend him.

He once burned the book i was reading on our BBQ (when drunk) because it was called ?The Satanist? and as a Catholic it offended him, esp as his mum had cancer.

once during a heated argument he got so angry he punched the wall right next to my head so hard it left the imprint of his four knuckles in the plaster; he said that was ok, he was so angry he really wanted to punch me but punched the wall instead.

2-3 years ago he decided to get fit so was having sessions with a PT, he badgered me into going too, even though I wasn't keen; after 6 months when i?d lost 1 1/2 stone, and gone from a size 16 to a 12 (im 6ft) he told me one night as i was getting into bed that ?he didn?t fancy me anymore, my tits were all saggy and I?d ruined my body and he wanted me to have a boob job"

last year bought me some eye-wateringly expensive underwear, and despite me saying repeatedly that it didn't fit has proceeded to buy me another 4 sets of same size stuff. Gets upset when I tell him it doesn't fit (again) and says he is only doing it to spice things up and put the spark back.

once remotley wiped my iphone after an argument, and during same argument threatened to sell the car

demanded/coerced me into sex when I had recurring thrush (every month, over a period of four years), despite me telling him repeatedly how much it burned.

no help with kids - has never bathed kids, could count on fingers of one hand how many times he?s put them to bed, says he cant read bedtime stories because he?s dyslexic but manages to spend 2-3 hours on his ipad every night. I thought that was normal until an exchange student we had staying with us for the summer last year commented on how he did nothing with the kids and I did everything.

went on holiday last year, DS took the class ?holiday bear? & was soooo excited, DH said we couldn?t take bear on days out in case it got lost. I was too scared to say the bear could go in the back pack, DS was visibly crushed & in tears, i felt I had failed DS because i didn't stand up to DH.

a couple of years back he tried to persuade me to have my navel pierced, i said no, then during an argument said he just wanted a sign that I loved him, like - guess what - having my navel pierced. to my eternal shame i did it, hated it but thank god it rejected so i took it out.

says he wants me to wear sexy clothes so that when we go out he can show me off and other blokes will be jealous. i don?t really want to anyones trophy.

he wants me to be completely hairless between my legs, i?ve tried it a couple of times but frankly don't like it, thinks its degrading, don?t think im setting a good example to my dd (or ds for that matter, what will he think when sees a real bush?), (and god does it itch when it grows back in) he says I should do it for him to please him.

Says i should do things to please him even if i don't like doing it, as he would do the same for me. i have tried to explain to him that i don't understand how he can get pleasure from me doing something I clearly don't want to do, and that i wouldn't even ask him to do something that he was unhappy with, but he doesn't get it.

A few weeks ago DS was unhappy at school & with homework, after a discussion with the head teacher I was browsing the web looking at home schooling (something I considered before DS started school, not something I?d rush into but it?s always an option) he caught me looking at HE websites, didn't think to ask my opnion about it, just went straight into a tirade about how he disagreed and he was really upset that I was even thinking about it.

basically every argument turns into how he feels about it and how upset I have made him feel and how i need to change my behavior so that he doesn?t get upset and that he?s only happy when I?m happy.

I?ve stuck it this long because of what we?ve been through with his parents, his mum had cancer for years, with all the entailing chemo, radiotherapy etc, then 3 weeks after she died we found out his Dad had cancer, he died 6 months later (Feb 2009). For a long time I?ve made excuses for DH?s behavior because his parents were ill and then obv he was grieving.

Last year things seemed finally to be good, we had about 6 months where I thought we were finally coming out of the woods, but the last 6 months have been hell. We argue every week, he says its because I don't talk to him. I?ve tried to explain I feel afraid to talk to him because he raises his voice, interrupts me, and doesn't listen. He says its all down to me, only I can change it and I?m not normal.

I could go on but think even i'd lose the will to live reading it all.

In short (and thanks if you?ve stuck with me this far) is any of the above normal? would you have put up with this thus far? Am I over-reacting? And what are the chances of things ever being better? should I just cut my losses now and run?

I?ve just turned 40, have taken a long hard look at the last 15 years and don't want the next 15 to be the same.

Oh God, another 25 minutes of heavy discussion. he's gone over the road to his mate's to talk to him. god knows what he's telling them

He says this is how people behave when its over and do i want to split up?

should i just say yes and get it over with? or keep quiet until i'm ready? God this is so hard.

and looks like he might not go away after all

shit shit shit

And he doesn't understand why i've suddenly gone "all feminist"

lol here, almost, rolling my eyes @@ (e_e) at his self-indulgence. He really needs to get down off that cross! What is it my mother would say get off the cross and build a bridge :-p or in his case, maybe a park bench for himself. Oh I'm not laughing, cos I know that although the behaviour is risible, it's exhausting. One day though when this is safely behind you, you'll find yourself smiling wryly at some of the more ludicrous antics.

But I agree with garlicyoni, instead of digging all that verbal talent of yours out of the bag to construct your reply to him in such a way that it is slightly less likely to be misinterpreted and misconstrued.... a weary 'oh does it feel like a pity shag, poor you' might save you the energy of all those carefully selected words. BUT, narc or histrionic, I guess he won't just let that slide. There'll be a court case afterwards? Will you be cross-examined? You know best. Do you get a court case regardless? carefully chosen words which leave little room for misinterpretation still lead to a court case???? then, might as well shrug and say 'oh poor you' and save your energy for your book!

I felt I was good with words too. I think once upon a time, when I first picked up on how unreasonable he could be, I felt that I had the 'armour' of being articulate and being emotionally intelligent, and self-aware, and empathic, and reasonable.... and i felt that that was armour that would pave the way through any difficulties. But it didn't work out like that. The skills I thought would lead me through relationship difficulties were actually a red rag to him.

It's not feminist to exert totally basic human rights, what an absolute knobhead! I've met toddlers less self-centred than this pathetic, inadequate excuse for a man. He asked you if you want to end things - just say yes!

x post

wearing i had to lie to my x because he was physically abusive. But if your h is not abusive I would just go for the blunt truth.

He can twist what he likes and he will. He'll tell all your mutual acquaintances that you left him because you were shallow, because you were lazy, because you gave up too easily, because you got bored with his reliable solid decency you know the script. Poor me! It'll be a staggering work of great fiction, his own piece of fiction, and he the protaganist will be the underdog, championing the good fight against evil.... (you)

To begin with I felt the weight of that very heavily, wondering what the neighbours had been told, what his aunts and uncles and so on thouht. But although I wasted years trying to defend my right to leave him, I realise now that it would have been sufficient to say "the relationship was not working, I was extremely unhappy, I did not love him".

He believes that whoever he tells his version to will buy into his sense of entitlement over you. And the truth is, when they hear it, in that moment they may well buy into it and nod and sigh and stroke his paw and say 'poor you' but most normal people understand that relationships don't always work, that one party can leave even if the other half doesn't want him/her to leave, that we have all at some point ended a relationship or not wanted to initiate one....... These things float around the backs of peoples heads, so, if to begin with it seems like you're being cast as the villain of the piece, just bide your time and hold on to that certain knowledge that even IF he were perfect (ha ha ha) you'd be entitled to end the relationship.

I'd tell a few people that you were extremely unhappy in the marriage. The relationship was totally disfunctional. People can't argue with that but they understand it. Sometimes, the more details you give people the less they understand!!! because to begin with thy understand the basic premise that you're entitled to leave a relationship that makes you so miserable, and then sometimes they hear a few more details and they're confused, they think they have to make sense of it all, they form opinions!!!

I made the mistake (I now feel) of wanting everybody's understanding and blessing to have left). Years later I understood that I owed nobody an explanaition. I left because I was unhappy and the relationship was so disfunctional. And now, years later, when I say that the funny thing is people nod and smile and understand. To begin with I feel I tied myself up in knots looking for people's blessing. BUT that was my state of mind at the time. I was not as 'solid' as you seem here now.

Just seen the feminist comment! ofgs what a manipulative arse.

On the site I linked to earlier I found this, a healthy relationship quiz. I'm going to link it because it just puts it in writing, you're not asking too much. He will tell you that you want to end the relationship because you're a feminist, you're selfish, cold-hearted blah blah blah, if you ever doubt yourself for a moment, quickly refer to this quiz!

here it is

Wearing - just wanted to say have read your story and good luck with getting out. It's really tiring putting up with all the whining but you know it's because he definitely knows his power over you is waning and he is getting more and more desperate. I found when the whining started the best thing to do was to repeat over and over in my head a phrase like 'I can be free of this now' so that I didn't listen to the details/questions/rants.

I wanted to say that if you feel like he is bad mouthing you around town then I suspect (as was revealed in my case) that virtually everyone around you will be well aware of what a twat he is and will be sympathising with you. You'll be amazed how many people will come up to you afterwards (even his supposed best friends) and say 'how did you put up with it for so long!'.

The kids and you deserve some peace. If it were me I would just calmly (as possible!) say 'the relationship is over, I'm not going to change my mind, we will need to make arrangements for parting ways, I have to go now but will be in touch to discuss'. Pls go and stay with your Mum just to get a bit of space away from him. You don't need to give up ownership of the house just get out of his territory initially.

Every time he starts whining and goading you into answering another question repeat the phrase and then start your inner mantra! Don't stay too long, be assertive and say 'I'm leaving now'. He will cry, shout, demand, collapse, rage for as long as it takes because he thinks it will wear you down into giving in. If he won't let you leave the room say 'If you do not let me leave I will call the police, this is not acceptable behaviour' or you could try 'I told x that if I wasn't back by x o'clock to ring the police because they would know that something was wrong'. Watch him profess shock at 'how could you think I would do something like that' - have a little ironic chuckle to yourself.

Deep down he realises what a horrid little man he is and without you he's going to have to face up to that and make some changes. It is not your job to make him better - in fact you can't do it, only he can.

Oh well, the deed is done. I've told him it's over. TBH i just feel a huge sense of relief.

Our mutual friend from the business opposite came over, she was helpful, i just explained that we weren't happy, i realised that things he said and done over the years weren't right and i couldn't go on like that. She's been married before and just said it would be best to tell H and get it over with, then we can both move on.

So I did, not nastily, just very quietly and calmly told him that i wasn't happy and he wasn't happy and its over. he was quite calm too (maybe shock?) said i should think it over, said if only we'd talked this could have been avoided. He said I could move out and leave him with the kids! Er, NO! Said he's not leaving the house. he kept saying he can change, we can make it work, look at what i'm throwing away, please rethink etc

And surprise surprise, apparently I'll never find anyone else who loves me like he does. Well, thank fuck for that, maybe I'll find someone who does actually love me, instead of saying that they do and then treating me like shit.

i'm planning a life of singledom for now and the forseeable future, i just want to be me and do things i enjoy without being judged.

I also feel suspiciously calm. I suspect it may be the calm before the storm...

Jenny, they are wise words - don't explain too much or people become confused. i do feel a need for people to understand just how awful it has been but in reality do they need to know? As you say, relationships break down all the time and people accept that, they don't really need to know the nitty gritty of it all. And I suspect that if i go around telling everyone just how awful he has been, even if the believe me, i will just make myself look like a twunt for bad mouthing him.

Sorry for waffle above, was getting all annoyed for you!

The other thing I was going to say was that my mother left my absolute arsehole father when I was 12 and it was the best thing ever - felt like my real childhood started. Even at 7 or even 5 I understood that my Mum was good and my Dad was an arse. Do be prepared for them to grieve over the loss of a real father figure and to want to sort of find it in him even though it's bloody impossible. That is their journey and it needn't make you feel bad. In staying with him I guarantee you their lives will be made much much poorer. A simple 'none of this is your fault' will work wonders.

Will be thinking of you all.

Well done Making - ignore my posts - I'm so pleased for you and the kids.

Enjoy your new life!

Oops typo plus pred text - Wearing not Making!

Well done wearing, glad you did it.

I think your H had read the same book mine had, his words when you said it was over match almost word for word! Although I had the added benefit of "You'll start looking your age and no-one will want you" and yo know what, he was wrong on both counts!

Good luck with the rest of your life. There'll be a shitty bit for a while now but it will be worth it.

I assumed all his family were on 'their' sides and this week had txt from one b-i-l with family news and another s-i-l rang to say they wanted me at neices wedding and neice had said she wanted me there, said they weren't happy about what had happened and hinted heavily that they would rather I was there than 'them' I haven't needed to say anything they made up their own minds. Qiuet dignity - better than whinging!!

Well done!

Congratulations Wearing you are so brave, well done.

I feel you are going to be happier when its all shaken out.

Also looking forward to the book by W.F.M. Socks (PLEASE have that as your pen-name!! (I guess maybe not))

But what is going to happen with the rather crucial question of who moves out and who has the kids (when)?

Surely as he doesn't bathe or put kids to bed (re-reading the OP) is he really suggesting you leave him with the kids?!?!

Well done you. You will not regret this one bit.

Surely as he doesn't bathe or put kids to bed - Lily, I dont think he even realises that these things need to be done!

He is still being a manipulative git, has said he wants custody of the kids, and when we tell the kids we're splitting up we should tell them that its my decision not his, and that he's worried that I'll take them out of the school they're in. And have I thought how this will affect the kids, they'll be so upset to have to move house and leave their playhouse behind.

Not half as upset as having to live with a mummy and daddy who don't love each other anymore.

Thankfully he has still gone away for the night, so I can relax. and I'm thinking of having a day out with the kids tomorrow, somewhere fun.

Well done. You are a focused lady.

You have a very, very wise friend.

Have you thought about leaving the house with the kids? And go today?

BTW Get those documents to your Mum's house.

The first step is done

Hi OP,

Been following your thread. God he's a shocker. How are you coping? Good sense of humour seems to help. Remind me again why you haven't split up yet... no offence... but what are you waiting for? Don't you want to know that there's a last time for everything i.e. having those rows, those circular nonsense conversations, having sex with him etc. Goodness... I bet you would like to know that you done that with him for the last time ever... can you be sure of that one even?

You're doing wonderfully I think... just gotta make it final.

I am grateful you wrote down that 'Come closer' conversation a couple of pages ago. It was so remnicsient of the kind of nonsense dialogues I would have with my STBXH. They left me feeling totally dazed and thinking 'WHAT was that about? and 'did I just take part that conversation and still have no idea what it was about or how I got roped into it?' The countless times I had the 'So what you're saying is this...' and I'd go: 'No, what I said was...' exchanges. I thought I was going mad... which is precisely what they want you to think. It messes with your head.

Good luck today, tomorrow etc etc. What's next?

whoops sorry - wrote that and didn't post for a couple of hours as toddler-type incidents kept getting in the way. Apologies if I'm out of date!

X-post.

See you're safe this evening. Still get those papers out of the house today. Once he realises his manipulation isn't working this time he could escalate his attempts to keep you weary voice of experience speaks

Hurrah! Hope you'll find every bit of support you need to stay focused, and have a lovely day with DC.

Yay - congratulations! I'm well behind with the news.

Well done. He needed to be told. Love the idea that he wants you to 'think it over', like you hadn't done that for YEARS. Yes I had that too: someone who says they love you but treats you like shit - great combo!

All power to you.

Great news that you've told him!

Expect life to become a bit of a rollercoaster, and doubtless he'll become even more of a twunt. One step at a time and stay strong: freedom ahead! For tips and support, there is always the EA thread.