support thread for those in emotionally abusive relationships: 20

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

No pony I've been feeling worried for her. We heard that she was out but then nothing else. I can't stop thinking that was the same weekend that that poor lady and her son were in the news for being stabbed to death. Probably being stupid and fearing the worst. But wish she would just pop in and say hi.

Hope she is ok.
Also hoping charlotte is having ok time.

pony according to one link i read forrget which, it is that kind of boundary i.e. not being keen on men being interested in you that causes you to end up with a FW because a nice man will sense your reserve and give you space and a FW will just trample allover your boundary. (not that that makes it your fault!! Just another sign the FW is thinking about themselves)

I am quite relieved though. feel like i have recognised missing piece of the puzzle. not having been single for a while i had forgotten how i felt about myself on dating score. And had never realised where that came from.

so now the puzzle is complete. realised ex was FW. got rid of ex. But still had to work out how i ended up with him in first place other than he was best of bad bunch handsome funny and good in bed and why i stayed.

Of course a lot if what i have said above sounds like i blame men for the childhood insecurity etc. In fact it was the girls at school that made me feel like a freak and i still don't really get the whole clothes shoes shopping thing. and feel like a freak with the school mums. it is mostly in my head that i don't feel like a 'proper woman' but some kind of charlatain. and i suppose humour is a defense mechanism so maybe that is why it can be off putting. iyswim. people who respect boundaries won't be comfortable with me unless they know me well or unless i become more comfortable with myself.

ramble.

Bounty!! I never made the connection. surely not. probably just a lack of internet i hope.

Was just about to say about Charlotte too, Mink. Been back and checked, don't think she's posted in nearly a month. And Maggie, it's been about 6 weeks I think. She wasn't quite out at that stage, I don't think, but was on the verge. Hope hope hope she's ok.

Ah, Mink, I could explain that one away with FW, in that we met over an internet dating site blasted things!, so we both knew we were both actively seeking and looking for 'romantic liaisons', as t'were, rather than just having got chatting in a pub or met through friends or something. But i totally get what you mean.

I neither get the 'shoes/shopping/bags' thing. I try - I got quite into buying Glamour magazine for a while, but trying to 'keep up' with fashions etc was too much effort! I am not a girly girl. Everything you say in your last para completely chimes in my head. I too feel like a fake woman, and I feel out of place at the school gates. Humour is totally my defense mechanism too - one of the things my friend got angry with me about (the one I mentioned in my above post to Matchsticks) was the fact that I had been assaulted and I was making jokes about it... That's a really interesting thing you say here: people who respect boundaries won't be comfortable with me unless they know me well or unless i become more comfortable with myself.
I am going to ponder that.

Oh bugger it. Had meant to get an early night (see previous mention of multiple DS2 wakings, for more nights than I care to remember). Right, am going to sleep. Night all. Forging ahead to Monday again (and hopefully hearing that Maggie and Charlotte are both ok?).

Still doesn't feel right without Tis here either.

xx

Not a girly girl here as if you couldn't tell from recent posts elsewhere

I believe I have AS and ADHD. And an AS family. Weird, low esteem, underlyingly sociable, but clumsy and socially inept at start of getting to know people. Classic AS as it manifests in females. We shall see.

My self-esteem isn't low any more, the rest is still more or less true! Not helped by mild face blindness.

now who's rambling

Another one who was wondering about maggie and charlotte hope they are both okay.

Need to sleep sp won't comment at length but really interesting comments about boundaries. Need to ponder that. I thought mine were non-existent that is why I got fw but hadn't thought about it the other way around; that he didn't respect the great big wall I put up. Hmmm.

Just popping on after evening spent working to say hello and agree with discussion re boundaries. Makes perfect sense when I read that.

I'm also worried about maggie, charlotte, Nini and I miss leclerc

Finally found that r4 I was talking about about expressive writing
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01rrc11 Mind Changers

arth are you around? I sent you a PM some time back?

Charlotte isn't due back for a bit i think. hope she is having ok time.

Hey all, just catching up.

I'm getting pretty desperate. Miss the FW loads and sending begging texts for him to take me back. He's being really horrible and I keep going back for more. Think I'm being abusive now.

No, you are being addictive, that is all... We understand [gentle hug]

Agree with Silvery re the addiction. I struggle with that sense, Colin, of hating him and hating what he's done to me but just missing him and wanting him to give me a hug. Even now, I sometimes feel a bit like that.

Don't beat yourself up. But tell yourself that's the last begging text you'll send, and step away from the phone. I found the phone a terrible frenemy when I first left FW - I was desperate for any text from him, to see some communication from him, to see whether he really did love me or not. When it came I was either elated by what it said (and therefore very confused overall), or flung into a pit of despair. So neither was a good outcome for me.

Turn your phone off for a bit and do something positive to benefit yourself.

Thank you both. I will do. He's being more and more of a FW by the minute -am being bollocked for being under the impression it's over! He said he didn't end it - he definitely did! - and said all he'd said was that he was unsure.

Aw, thanks for thinking of me. I've actually been back for a week and have been lurking, but couldn't summon the strength to post. I've been hoovered...

It's hard going on holiday for 3 weeks with no internet access (and don't like to use phone) with your STBX and members of his family who don't know the whole story and think you shouldn't give up yet. Maybe I should've taken Lundy as bedtime reading but didn't think I could risk it.

Anyway, he was being charming. More than that, he was engaged with the dcs, respected my boundaries and generally was kind and thoughtful. Pressed me again and again to talk it through, so I did. I felt sorry for him. We had a long conversation and I told him all the reasons I thought he was abusive and then I cried and asked for a hug.

Two more days of feeling lonely and only being with him and the dcs; and then we were on again. After 12 years together, he started kissing me and said this time he likes it (quite a different story from 12 years ago).

Anyway, long story short: some of the time it feels better than ever before and some of the time things happen and I wonder if there's actually been any change. At the moment, the first of these is more in evidence. I've really been kicking myself for letting this happen - holiday madness - but then again, the dcs are benefitting from all his attention; he's listening if I suggest he does something in a less FWy way differently and acting on it.

Now I have to break the habit of agreeing with everything for the sake of peace and stand up for myself. At the moment, it's being accepted. No idea what the future holds, but then again, what's new?

First thing I did on returning to MN post-holiday was check on Maggie . Keep telling myself that internet takes a long time to set up in a new place... but am also fearing the worst.

Colin he is gaslighting you so that uf he dies come back it is on his terms. he will probably be very nice for a bit. but remember when you were apart he was off out you supposed to stay in waiting for him.
this link on angry attachment might ring true.

It is hard i took my ex back in similar circumstances god knows how many times.

charlotte welcome back. Glad you survived. i hope he really has changed. is there any chance of him going on one of the abusers courses?

Oh, Charlotte, it must be hard to be away with someone who is the father of your children, who can be lovely when he applies himself, and where everyone wants you to work it out. Because in an ideal world, we would want it to work out too. But I think you are right, the test is really what happens when you start asserting yourself and it doesn't line up with what he wants. Whether he is open to compromise, discussion, you being yourself.

Let's hope maggie gets online soon. It must be hard to get everything sorted. Fingers crossed for her anyway.

It took me nearly a month to get internet access when I moved into my rented place, so it might just be that with Maggie

Charlotte I know that if I went away with FW now even after being away for 7 months we'd probably have a good time and he'd be able to convince me everything is okay. How do you feel about him? Do you still love him?

I know mink....it's bonkers this gas lighting. He really does have me on that kind of a cycle where he sends me to Coventry to keep me in line. It's just he hasn't done it in a long time and he's behaving a bit differently this time - more resolute if anything. Also he likes to have it his way in the sense that he's effectively single, but I'm not if you see what I mean. He regularly tells me off over things that happened when we weren't even together ( because I was running away from this abusive twat, I was stronger then)

Charlotte! Lovely to see you back here! (Not lovely, in the sense of glad you have to be back... you know what I mean) Have a

There are good things to take from your time away - as you say, if things are better than ever, and the DCs are benefiting, that's a positive for you all. However, at the absolute end of all this is:
It doesn't really matter whether he's abusive, whether he continues to be, whether he would win father of the year awards, whether other people think you should give it another go.
All that matters is you, how you feel about him, whether you genuinely still want to be in a relationship with him.

If you do, then these changes are all positive, and you can monitor them as you say and see how things go when you start challenging his behaviours in the future.

If you don't still want to be married to him, if you feel that you can't get past all the things he's said and done in the past (which is perfectly understandable, and you are under no obligation to forgive and forget) then please take time now that you are back and think about that.

I agree, Matchsticks, I think I'd end up in the same situation with my FW, even though I left nearly a year ago.

I wanted to share this link that I saw somewhere else, sure some of you have seen it but I thought it was pretty good. www.abuseandrelationships.org/
As a certain fluttery-one noted, this quote from the homepage is particularly good, I think:
Abuse is a twisted way to get needs met, but the twist toward limiting the other person's options is exactly where the destructiveness comes from.

I am sure Maggie was mostly posting on her phone before... doesn't that mean that she wouldn't have to have specific broadband account access to do that? (Not entirely sure about these things.)
Am wishing now that we'd asked her to PM one of us her mobile. Hope she's ok.

FW is managing to get his legal aid lawyer to do his dirty work. God knows he must have been given a massive cheque from them. The frequency of letters is increasing, although I sense it is because they are worried about things and he feels out of control which I should take comfort in. But I have to deal with it still and it seems wrong that he can use the legal system to harass me. A hearing date is already set for next week they should wait for the statement that was ordered to check progress on things not keep sending letters? they are also once again trying to fudge dates - he was very late doing the last thing ordered by the court and they are now trying to change dates.. unbelievable that the system should not allow this. And it really says to me how controlling he still want to be and it scares me
Really hope maggie is safe

Charlotte, I think match and pony have hit the nail on the head. The key thing is how you feel, whether you still love him. I think for me there were two separate things, the could we work as a family, which I tried and tried to work out amidst much hoovering, and the did I still love him, which he asked me incessantly, and eventually the answer was no . Too much of the twisting as per the quote above. The quote gets to the heart of it, I think, in a way I had not quite understood before. It merits repeating, thank you.

better, are the letters coming direct to you? Can they not be directed to and filtered by your sol? Agree it is about control.

colin it all sounds very stressful and soul destroying. Agree you should switch the phone off and enjoy the peace for a while to focus on you.