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Original poster

Falling pregnant is 90% a woman's fault

188 replies

Gingerandhibiscus · 12/04/2013 18:29

Women CAN'T win!!!

REading through a thread on mn here where a single pregnant poster was pasted, interrogated judged and made answer for herself - I feel something like despair. (I don't know how she must feel).

Women don't 'put out' they're prudes and frigid or they have boundaries up around them. Or they're too fussy or too picky, or they're up themselves, or they're ugly, or they're spinsters. or feminists. What criticism are there for men who aren't in a sexual relationship.

if they have unprotected sex they are judged for 1) having had unprotected sex, and 2) if they get pregnant they're judged for not taking the MAP, and not having an abortion.

of course, if they had had an abortion they'd be judged for that too.

The original poster on the thread that has ME slackjawed works so she can't be attacked for seeking benefits. But some posters told her she shouldn't seek maintenance because it's not right given that the father wanted her to have an abortion. Confused others told her she had a duty to seek maintenance on behalf of her child.

another poster told her that his taxes are propping up the running of the CSA. He seemed angry that the law and the state support a single woman in her unplanned pregnancy.

women can't win no matter what they do and what they choose. Unless they get married at about 27-33 to a nice man they'll be judged at some point. You literally can't move as a woman without being judged. ANd not just by men, but by women ... and that upsets me... :-(

OP posts:
Theenemy · 13/04/2013 18:58

Ginger I said men have no say, in the outcome of an unplanned pregnancy and conceded that while it seems unfair there is no solution to that and it's just a harsh reality. Not once did I say men should be given more rights. Had you truly read my posts you'd know that but I'm beginning to suspect your just determined to argue with me for reasons known only to yourself.

Original poster
Gingerandhibiscus · 13/04/2013 19:10

for reasons known 'only to myself'??? ONLY TO MYSELF???

Don't delude yourself. There'd be few adult women who'd read through this thread and think 'theenemy sounds like a reasonable guy and his views on the division of responsibility are spot on".

As women are about 50% of the population, it's says more about you than it says about me when you mock me, invalidate me, or try to, with sentences like 'your (it's you're) just determined to argue with me for reasons known only to yourself". Well if you can't conclude an argument with the most reasoned fair argument, just mock your oponent and invalidate them I guess.

By your rationale though, you can say what you like and anybody who challenges you, well, it says more about them than it says about you Hmm Please! As though you're a paragon of reason and the problem is not the lack of equality, but my ishooooz.

OP posts:
Theenemy · 13/04/2013 21:31

Just read through your post, lots of talk about my supposed attempt to mock or invalidate you, you picked up on a spelling mistake but I must have missed the bit where you admitted you were wrong and that in fact I hadn't called for more rights for men. I'm sure the 50%+ women who make up the population would be able to spot that.

SolidGoldBrass · 13/04/2013 23:04

And don't forget there are an awful lot of men who piss and moan about having to wear a condom (because the woman's not on the pill and has made this clear/because she's missed a pill or had an upset stomach), yet want PIV sex and still get all arsey about it if a pregnancy occurs...

swallowedAfly · 14/04/2013 08:09

i'm baffled by someone clearly saying 'i think women should take responsibility for contraception' then denying saying that and implying everyone who thinks he said that is thick. you said it. if upon discussing this with us and reflecting you have changed and clarified your position then fine, that's great. it's not weakness to change one's mind you know. it does appear weak to deny what you've said or claim it was taken out of context and attack people rather than just admit hey, you know, i was wrong or i hadn't thought out what i was saying and actually i now think differently.

swallowedAfly · 14/04/2013 08:09

i'm also admittedly baffled by an adult male with no children wanting to hang out on mumsnet to argue with mothers about contraception and responsibility for children.

TheYoniKeeper · 14/04/2013 08:24

It's how some people get their kicks swallowed Hmm

Am now waiting for a post that denies what you've just said even though it's true with a mild insult thrown in for good measure...

swallowedAfly · 14/04/2013 10:47

ah maybe he's found something to do today or is having a lie in. i'm glad i'm not childless and have so little to do with my life that i hang out on mumsnet of a saturday starting arguments with mothers.

girliefriend · 14/04/2013 10:57

Haven't read the whole thread or the original thread that the op is referring to but I had a child following a one night stand and took the morning after pill which did not work.

I have been consistantly Shock and Sad by the number of people who would have been more comfortable with me having an abortion rather than raising a child by myself.

As the op said you can't win so I think you have to go with what is right for you and as a good friend said to me when I found out I was pregnant 'I would never regret having the baby but I might if I had an abortion.'

My beautiful dd is now 7yo and I have no regrets Smile

Tenemy · 14/04/2013 12:09

Swallowed, the very first thing I said on this post was Men and women were responsible for contraception, thats both, not either or, or one or the other. I went on to say that as its women who get pregnant they themselves should take responsibility for contraception. Many would think it was common sense that a woman who didn't want to have a baby would protect herself.

I tried many times to clarify what I'd meant but then find I'm accused of arguing, I was accused of being misogynistic, I was accused of making women who had been abandoned by partners who used these boards feel awful! I've been accused of being here to get my kicks and here to throw mild insults whilst being insulted myself.

I was asked why I was here? What did I get out of it? As if I had some sinister ulterior motive for being here.

As far as I can see a gave an opinion on a subject, your all perfectly entitled to your own opinions and to disagree with mine, I didn't invite an argument, or look to create one.

I don't think it's unreasonable for a man in a relationship with a woman to be reading posts on relationships on this site for their own reasons, but apparently it's for women with children only, that's fine, I have no argument with that and I see this is the wrong place to come for advice, I expect I'll be blocked again for having the temerity to be here.

TheYoniKeeper · 14/04/2013 12:16

Blocked again? Hmm

Tenemy · 14/04/2013 12:17

Yes, it seems if I dare have an opinion that differs to yours I get blocked.

MooMooSkit · 14/04/2013 12:17

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 14/04/2013 12:28

Theenemy/Tenemy your posts seemed quite anti-women to me. If you didn't mean them to be this way - then you need to work on how you express yourself in writing.

This post in particular was disturbing:

I can recall a man going to court when a woman decided to have an abortion, (I could google it but I can't be bothered), the man said if she was willing to have the baby he would happily bring the child up on his own. The court decided he should have no say in whether she kept the baby or not, however if she had kept it against his wishes the law says he must pay. To me that's not fair, your stupid post won't change my mind about that.

It is her body - she makes the final decision. Nobody else. It would be barbaric to force a woman into a pregnancy & childbirth against her will. Just as it would be barbaric to force her into an abortion she didn't want. You call women having autonomy over their own bodies "unfair". Hmm Hmm Hmm

AmateurMarriage · 14/04/2013 12:29

TheEnemy, I hope you can understand this, guggesting that somebody is only arguing with you for fun, and/or because of their issues Hmm rather than because they have a point - that is invalidating their voice.

I think it's extremely weird that this man has no kids. WHat the hell is he doing here? I assumed he was a father.

AmateurMarriage · 14/04/2013 12:31

suggesting

swallowedAfly · 14/04/2013 12:32

so you're in the habit of being 'blocked' and you have several accounts open at a time with slight variations on the same name. i see.

pumpkinsweetie · 14/04/2013 12:34

I agree moomoo, that happened to me to, rather recently in feb. At first it was a huge shock, me and my dh were completely rocked by it but we came to terms together that we would support each other and have the baby but unfortunately i mc Sad. The pill isn't as safe as it is for some, i took it religiously but for some reason it failed.
My dh never blamed me or himself, things happen and any decent man can see that, its just a shame some people like to lay the blame entirely on the other partner, which unfortunately is nearly always female.

Tenemy · 14/04/2013 12:40

Sabrina I think your twisting what I'd said, I did not say women having autonomy over their own bodies was unfair, I said men had no say or rights as to the outcome of an unplanned pregnancy, then admitted it was just unfair in the way life is just unfair sometimes. Nor did I suggest at any point that women should be forced to carry a pregnancy or have an abortion.

Tenemy · 14/04/2013 12:44

Amateur, don't you think asking someone to clarify their position and then accusing them of arguing because you take offence at the answer is unfair, as I have said I didn't come here for an argument. I don't see what is so unreasonable for a man in a relationship to read posts about relationships.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 14/04/2013 12:45

I'm not twisting anything - I quoted your post. This is ridiculous - you keep saying things and then saying you didn't say them. Or didn't mean them.

Tenemy · 14/04/2013 12:46

Swallowed I was blocked once, I don't know why I was blocked and yes I created a new account. To say I'm in the habit of being blocked is simply untrue.

Tenemy · 14/04/2013 12:50

Sabrina I'm not denying what I said, I said it was unfair that men had no say in the outcome of an unplanned pregnancy.

I went on to use that case as an example

I then conceded that whilst it seemed unfair, there was no solution to that as a woman couldn't be forced to have an abortion or to carry a pregnancy.

I said it seemed unfair but it was just a harsh reality men had to live with.

Tenemy · 14/04/2013 12:54

It seems that people keep copy and pasting things I said and looking at them in isolation, taken out of context, and arguing over that. Then I'm being accused of having some weird motive for being here and arguing with women about contraception.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 14/04/2013 13:00

No, it's not just a harsh reality that men have to live with - men have the ability to walk away from an unplanned pregnancy - (and plenty do if you look at the maintenance payment stats) - the woman doesn't.

In the event of an unplanned pregnancy, the woman has to make a choice - and either of those choices will have an impact on her own body, and her mental welfare. She cannot have what she wants either - which is to be not pregnant.