Falling pregnant is 90% a woman's fault

[Gingerandhibiscus]

Women CAN'T win!!!

REading through a thread on mn here where a single pregnant poster was pasted, interrogated judged and made answer for herself - I feel something like despair. (I don't know how she must feel).

Women don't 'put out' they're prudes and frigid or they have boundaries up around them. Or they're too fussy or too picky, or they're up themselves, or they're ugly, or they're spinsters. or feminists. What criticism are there for men who aren't in a sexual relationship.

if they have unprotected sex they are judged for 1) having had unprotected sex, and 2) if they get pregnant they're judged for not taking the MAP, and not having an abortion.

of course, if they had had an abortion they'd be judged for that too.

The original poster on the thread that has ME slackjawed works so she can't be attacked for seeking benefits. But some posters told her she shouldn't seek maintenance because it's not right given that the father wanted her to have an abortion. others told her she had a duty to seek maintenance on behalf of her child.

another poster told her that his taxes are propping up the running of the CSA. He seemed angry that the law and the state support a single woman in her unplanned pregnancy.

women can't win no matter what they do and what they choose. Unless they get married at about 27-33 to a nice man they'll be judged at some point. You literally can't move as a woman without being judged. ANd not just by men, but by women ... and that upsets me... :-(

Yoni, read what I said, not one line picked out in isolation.

theenemy. i have read your posts. im not putting words in your mourth. you did say that women should take more responsibility for not getting pregnant (altho u said u yourself r responsible cos "women lie"). you also think it is unfair that men have no control over whether women abort or not. that very definitely boils down to u wanting women to take more responsibility but have fewer rights. if u cant see that that is what u have said then it is u that is obtuse.

Yoni, you asked why I was here it seemed a fair question to ask as that was the impression I got.

I do care about the attitude you have and the fact that it's offensive and a general PITA for women who've had this happen to them who're on here. I'm not the only one, as shown above

Ginger I know what I said, are you saying women should not take responsibility for getting pregnant?

I don't know what you're getting out of this, which is why I asked.

How is it offensive to say men and women should both take responsibility for contraception and if a woman doesn't want to get pregnant she should take the initiative and not rely on someone else. And that the reverse is also true?

Do you agree that women and men are responsible for contraception?

If so then what more is there to say? You seem a bit confused?

i think the problem for theenemy is that when your own views are repeated back to you without the padding of yoyr own justification the are recognisably misogynist and you dont identify with being a misogynist (you just want more rights over women and less responsibility having).

Oh FFS, the enemy. You must be acting thick on purpose. People don't have issue with you saying women should take responsibility, they have issue with you implying that its a woman's responsibility "because she gets pregnant" which implies the man has no role in a surprise pregnancy and no responsibility for the contraception.

She shouldn't have more responsibility though.

if she's doing her bit, then gets pregnant, that is not her fault.

Thankfuckingyou berts

Yoni, I'm getting nothing out of this at all, it's very dull having to repeat yourself over and over again. The same question to you, what are you getting out of constantly arguing with me?

you are the one putting words in to MY mouth. impissible to have a reasonable discussion with some body who twists what i say and denies what he said himself.

Define responsiblity then theenemy. Because women do take responsibility. Every single time a man walks away from an unwanted pregnancy, the woman is the only one taking responsibility. The discussion on the thread that prompted this one was along the lines of the man in question was seen by some as being hard done by to have to face up to taking any responsibility for a pregnancy that resulted from the 2 people having unprotected sex. You see, it seems that 'women taking responsibility' equates to 'women having an abortion' as that appears to be the only definition of 'taking responsibility' that is acceptable to a man who does not want the pregnancy to continue.

Because I find your view highly offensive & am aware that other women are reading who have been in this situation, not just me, who just don't need it on a board like this.

Berts, If I have said repeatedly that men and women are equally responsible for contraception, surely that implies men do have a responsibility and a role in a surprise pregnancy. I really can't see how you would assume I meant the opposite was true!

I also gave the example, that in the past I took responsibility for contraception, I didn't rely on the word of someone else, so that I knew there wouldn't be an unplanned pregnancy.

I said if I were a woman I would take responsibility and I wouldn't rely on a man to take care of it.

Bunch, at no point did i ever say women didn't take responsibility.

And you also said that because women are the ones who get pregnant, they should be the ones responsible for contraception. If you can't see what is wrong with that statement after multiple people pointing it out to you, there's really no point in replying to you anymore.

Berts, men don't get pregnant and as was pointed out many men are only to happy to walk away from their responsibilities so yes women should take the initiative and use contraception if they don't want to get pregnant.

Just as men who don't want to be fathers should take the initiative like I did in using contraception. What it boils down to is each individual must take responsibility. I really don't understand how you assume that means I'm pointing the finger at women and saying its up to them. If you can't understand that then your right there Is no point in any further discussion.

Those of you blaming women and crying unfair, ask yourselves what you really want women to do?

Take all responsibility for contraception?

Then agree with the man about what to do with any accidental resulting pregnancy?

In essence, you want it all your own way. Can you admit it? And if it's not your way then what, the woman's a bitch? No, it is what it is. It's not the woman's fault the decision lies with her.

So all you can do is have the conversation about contraception, and/or use a condom, and accept that if a woman falls pregnant you. Sometimes the woman will agree with you (whether it's wanting a baby or an abortion). Sometimes she won't. Accept it, if you're going to have sex,

Mysterious, in the past if a woman told me she was on the pill I said that's fine, but I'll wear a condom anyway, just in case. I think women should do the same, if a man says he'll pull out or wear a condom she should say fine, but I'll Take my pill anyway, just in case. It's about the individual taking responsibility. So if a woman doesn't want to get pregnant she should take the initative. Why rely on someone else? This site is full of stories from women let down by men they'd been married to for 20+ years and thought they could rely in. It's not about saying the responsibility lies solely with women or blaming them. But apparently I'm wrong!

MysteriousHamster+1. very good post

as for TheEnemy, "apparently I'm wrong" Do you know how arrogant and misogynist you come accross?

Just because you yourself take practical responsibility by always wearing a condom doesn't mean that your views on responsibility are egalitarian or reasonable. So you can't use the 'I wear a condom myself' defense as though it somehow proved that you think responsibility is 50:50 because you clearly don't think that.

In the event of a pregnancy you blame a woman more because she "shouldn't rely on somebody else" not to get her pregnant. SEx is a collaborative act which often leads to a baby, contraception or no contraception.

You wear a condom not because you're 50% responsible but because "women lie" and you don't trust them, which is your prerogative entirely but it's certainly not proof that your views on this subject are fair or without misogyny. So stop offering it up as though it were.

YOu have also made comments which when they are repeated back to you - you deny them, and then call posters who question your philosophy obtuse.

The bottom line, having read your posts (and I have read your posts) is that you think women should take more of the responsibility for pregnancy because it affects them more. (Obviously it affects them more because men can walk away). And yet, you feel for men who have no say in the outcome of pregnancy. So you would like men to have more rights wrt his baby being aborted against his wishes/ baby brought in to the World against his wishes. This would mean fewer rights for women over their own body and baby.

So TheEnemy, a woman is supposed to take the pill when she's not in a relationship? even though quite often doctors will suggest that you shouldn't take it for 20 years, or shouldn't take it if you smoke, and shouldn't take it until you lose a stone or whatever. The pill increases the risk of certain cancers I had a situation once where the doctor refused to give me a repeat prescription because I was overdue for a smear. I had a full time job. It was a hassle for ME (the woman). God if all you had to do was buy a pack of condoms in tesco you'd be grateful surely.

Plenty of other women get headaches on the pill. I know one woman who just couldn't take it because of the headaches it gave her. I put on half a stone every time I was on the pill and on a short woman that shows.

YES the pill stops you getting pregnant, but all of these pills are hormones and I wouldn't take a pill every day just IN CASE I ever had spontaneous unplanned sex and it is not just unreasonable but unrealistic of you to expect women who aren't in relationships to pop hormones every day of their lives.

I often used to be in my office at 5.30 thinking shit, never took the pill this morning. It's a responsibility even just remember to take it EVERY day. I used to remember nearly every day but men don't take the pill and I seriously wonder how many of them would never ever forget a pill. How many of them would take a pill that increased their risk of certain cancers and made them put on some weight, on the OFF chance that they might have sex.

Reading your post it's as though you don't understand any of this. Women ought to just take the pill regardless of whether they're in a relationship. I'd say mostly accidents happen because the sex was unplanned and fairly spontaneous.