Last train to Loserville Part 2

[LoserNoMore]

After the overwhelming support I've received on my thread I had to start another. Well I didn't have to but I have found all the advice so helpful that even if I only receive one more piece it will help.

I'll try and post the link to the full sorry story. Never linked on my phone before so it may not work.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1722750-This-doesnt-look-good-does-it?pg=40&order=

Sorry for assorted typos!
bury but what has it

LNM your not bad at this, your going amazing and your being so strong.

I would get to WH Smith and get hold of a 2013 diary if possible. If you can bear to document every single contact (time, by phone/email, what was said and agreed etc) it will be invaluable to you when he starts on with the "she wouldn't let me see the kids" part of the script.

I agree completely wiith Xales

Forcing it into e-mail contact means his silly behaviour is recorded. It's a) useful in court should you ever need it b) tones down his behaviour because in black and white it's harder to kid yourself you're in the right c) is a record of events.

In a fair world affairs shouldn't happen. In a fair world the guilty party would go out of their way to minimise the impact on those he had hurt. It's not going to be fair...so you need to expect, anticipate and mitigate against his behaviour.

I know you are a strong person from what you've posted since this happened. You are strong enough for this and he's not going to walk all over you. You will not be defeated. In a year from now you and your girls will be a strong unit and his impact will be smaller

He won't agree to emails... Mine fought it. I stopped responding to texts and maintained the simple line of email me if he phoned. He started sending messages via the DC and I said tell your Dad to email me in response.

I might sound like a confrontational harridan but the alternative was doormat

Yep he's already using the kids as a way to get to you, and control you.
That was your punishment for sticking to your boundaries, and not taking him on. He knows you'll be angry and upset at them being let down, and he's owning your free time as well, by snatching it away from you.

Remember how his sister was so concerned that he was upset over not seeing the girls?

He's a manipulative swine.

It felt wrong not to post something having just read through from the start. I feel so sad for you right now and grieving for a relationship is a very real and physical thing. You are an incredible women and role model for your DDs and you will be happy again with someone who really deserves you.

Sorry forgot to say. Hope his dick gets caught in some industrial machinery

Morning, I've told him a few times to email me instead of calling which he has done a few times. It's getting him to email every detail that is the problem. I've been keeping notes of everything since last week. I'll see what happens today, maybe he will change his mind about seeing dd's. If not I could ask his sister, just to give me a chance to pop into work for a few hours.

You are SO not bad at this LV. It is our natural instinct to protect our children, and I did the same for quite a long while and ranted to my therapist about it. It did make sense, but went against the grain. At the time my ex expected to just roll up as and when he finally dragged his arse out of bed, if he did ever do that. He would make an arrangement for say, 11 on a sunday. By 12 I would go outside to call him and get a stream of abuse for waking him up and then he would say that he wasnt coming, just to get at me. I then had to deal with his rage and control and it was awful. Then later, say 2pm, he would ring and demand that I bring her down to him, and like a fool I would and DD would be overjoyed and he would play loving dad for an hour and I would get a call to pick her up because he wanted to go out with his mates....
Or he wouldnt ring for weeks then suddenly ring Sunday morning and be arsey because I wasnt to know that THIS was the one week he would decide to exert his rights to HIS contact time. we never knew where we were or what we were doing. The control was all handed to him and I facilitated it as I was desperately trying to maintain the relationship for DD.

The therapist turned it on its head. She said that I might want DD and her dad to have a good relationship but it wasnt my place to facilitate that, it was up to him to develop. She pointed out that the contact was being used as a method of punishment and control and actually had little to do with DD at all - it was more to do with him feeling big by having me run around to his bidding, and punishing me if I upset him by not seeing DD which made me feel bad for her. She said I needed to take control and to be honest but non accusatory to DD about arrangements, because by hiding contact fails she only got the 'golden dad' side of the story and that could be detrimental to me in the future especially if golden dad ever used the 'your mum wouldnt let me see you' line... She said I needed to be solid in the contact. Be firm that the times/days are not flexible on short notice. Arrange to give half an hour leeway (because he should be able to call in that time if he is going to be late or traffic is bad) and then go out. Doesnt matter where, just so that if he rocks up 2 hours late, you are not around waiting for him. And he doesnt get a replacement day - next contact is at next scheduled contact. Harsh maybe but necesary to get control back.

oh and NEVER rely on him for having the kids if you have anything arranged that you need to do as he will almost certainly promise he will help you and will pull out at the last minute if he gets wind of the fact that it could mess you around

Oooh, was just going to say exactly what nettle has just said. Get times of agreed contact set. If he is late (and I suppose some leeway could be allowed ) but then yes, go out. Doesn't matter where or what just don't be available. He will have lost that agreed contact time. Seems really harsh but for me was the only way to gain control of the situation from him. I know you won't let him control you - you certainly don't come across as that kind of person! And yes, phone your sil and explain that he had agreed to have his girls tomorrow but now has to work and could they come anyway so that you can get some things done? You don't have to say what - what you do is no longer any of their business!!

Great advice nettle, strong clear boundaries are definitely necessary. LNM I know you want to shield your DDs from the pain, and all credit to you for it, but its important that they see their father for who he is. You're not making him look bad - he's doing that all by himself, and by hiding his shitty behaviour from your DDs you're not protecting them, you're protecting him.

yes i'd ask the aunt. not so much for you to get to work, though you def should have time to yourself, but for the dd's in a way that they don't get isolated from the rest of their family.

if it turns out he's going to be an arse over contact at least they'll still feel they have family around them and are loved by more than just you. i'm a single mum and i've made sure that my parents and sister and her children are all a regular part of ds's life so he has more than just me and a sense of adults around him who love him and are willing to take care of him sometimes. it matters i think.

Plus if you ask aunt she knows he could have had them but did not.
And yy to fixing a time and then going out. That is line i take with ex as his time keeping is terrible. if he wants he can come and get them from wherever they are if they still want to go with him.

nettle good advice. i shall be heeding it to.

Fingers crossed op once he realises his wee tantrums is not going to work he will realise it his relationship with his kids he is fucking up.

I agree with everyone else who say put it in writing. If he rings, don't answer the phone. If he turns up in person, put any arrangements in writing 'just to confirm, you said you wanted to have the girls at such and such a time...' that sort of thing.

I also agree it's good to ask sil to have them. Not only will it keep contact for your dds but, as someone else said, if he's lying and just kicking about the place, sil will find out what he's really like.

It's possible that he thought you were planning on meeting up with another man and was jealous. Hence all the asking about what you were going to do. Keep up with the 'none of your business' though, because you're right, what you do in your spare time is none of his business.

Oh, and if he lets them down again, just say 'ok I'll tell them'. So that he realises that the girls will know each time he does it. (Even if they don't actually know, he will think they do iyswim).

Thanks, I'll definitely reinforce the email and just make him aware I won't be covering for him if he lets them down. Sil is working but I'll ask her about tomorrow.

tbh at this point i'd probably try a bit of an appeal to sanity lnm. like, 'are you sure this is how you want to be? yes, you've lost me through cheating, yes it is over but now you need to wake up and think what kind of father you want to go on to be. don't get so caught up in trying to play games with me or justify your behaviour or whatever else is going on in your head that you forget that you are a father to lovely girls who want and need you to be a decent father to them despite the fact you've fucked your marriage. you need to arrange a regular schedule of contact and tell them what it is and tell them you love them and will be seeing them regularly and will always be there for them and that you will always be their dad. please step up and be decent with your children now - they deserve that and you will massively regret it if you don't.'

i think i'd have to have that appeal to his senses if they're in there and give that wake up call. how he acted thereafter would be down to him but at least you have tried.

if you do it and he ignores it then at least you'll know that this new stranger really is who you are dealing with now and can plan accordingly. but maybe, i really hope, it will get through to him and he'll wake up.

Hi LoserNoMore

I've just read most of your original thread and I have to concour with the other posters .... I'm male and wanted to say what a great woman you are

Keep strong & keep smiling

LNM you are doing fantastically well. And that is precisely why MrLoser is now stooping to this level - he is trying to punish you for not caving to his demands, and he's spiteful enough to use the children to do it.

Nettletea's advice is excellent, as is Xales' suggestion to only have traceable email contact with MrLoser. In fact I would even email him about things you have already discussed by phone . So I would email to ask for confirmation that he wishes to cancel the pre-agreed contact arrangements for Saturday, and to state that you are willing to have the children available for contact as long as he confirms by x time. If you have not heard from him by x time you will let the children know that he has cancelled the arrangement.

It might be helpful to explain to the children why you are placing them with SIL if you go into work, just to reinforce that they are your priority - perhaps say that you had arranged to go into work while they were with their dad, but now he has changed his plans. I'm all for avoiding hurting the children, but that shouldn't mean you covering up for MrLoser.

btw i do agree with all this email and keep it formal and ra ra ra usual stuff BUT i think maybe it's worth one face to face meeting and straight talking to and last chance saloon. not to be with you but to step up and be a good dad. an appeal to his senses, a reminder of who you thought he was with regards to his children and fatherhood and full on eye contact, hit home, reality check.

it's up to you whether you're strong enough to do that but yeah, i think if you are it's worth it for your girls and to feel really clear in yourself you've done what you can to do this the clean way. if he doesn't respond you can wholeheartedly get behind the whole see him as something that has to be communicated with only in writing, kept evidence of, strategised against etc etc. but one last chance at waking up and stepping up from the heart for his kids seems.... worth it given the stakes?

Agreed swallowedAfly.
At least you'll know exactly what you're dealing with. At least HE'LL know your priorities are the girls and that he needs to step up.

Again, you'll be putting the girls first and 'reaching out' IYSWIM?

Email it?

Maybe one last chance face to face, I don't know. I have emailed him with everything detailed, cancelling tomorrow etc.

I also contacted sil, she is going away for the weekend and said she wasn't aware he was working tomorrow.