Dh wants to talk-think it might spell the end.

[houseworkhater]

Have been together 20 years with 3 dcs.

Most people view us as being well suited and happy together.
Anyhow last year dh said he might leave. I was at my wits end. he said he basically wanted more sex and the house to be tidier.

I ran myself ragged upping the anti. I was literally following the dcs around moving everything in sight endlessly cleaning, throwing things away all to make it easier for me to keep this very tidy house.

After a time I began to think fuck this.
I went away for a few days with 2 dcs and when I came back the house was in a right state. Ds, who stayed at home, immediately said he was starving. Dh was in the pub. I asked dh to come home. He didn't, when he did I asked him to leave as this time I was the one who laid down my demands.

I told dh to stop going out so much and start and put his family first. He stopped going out as much and really made an effort.
We stayed together and have talked things through.
We have both tried to make more time for each other etc.

It is hard as dh is having to work very long hours and is always tired. On top of this he has joined a band. The money does come in handy but the trouble is none of the band have children, only one is married and they are all much youinger than him. He told them that he won't play every weekend but it seems to be taking over. He has told me that one of the band has offered to let him stay at his if we do split up.

I think dh might take him up on the offer!

I am so mad. I know he feels that sex is virtually non existant but he is either in bed before me, tired or out with the bloody band and then I am asleep when he returns.

I really want to make it work. the dcs have no idea that anything is wrong.

Any advice?

Thanks.

Yes I can have the dcs this weekend. I have them every weekend.
Dh does his share of taking them places, he always has.

I just don't want to make it easy for him by letting(if that's the right word) him cherry pick when he will/won't see them.

I don't know if this is reasonable or not. everyone I know who has separated seem to operate on this basis.Ie nrp has them on set days for set times and that is that. they have to fit their life in around that.

Is this reasonable?

I am taking dcs away next week anyway (pre arranged) without dh.

'Formalising the divorce' - the relationship isn't yet over. It might be, but it might not.

If the OP's H finds that life on the open road isn't what he imagined, it isn't impossible to imagine him realising what a colossal mistake he's making. If the OP still wants to take him back after that then good (if she doesn't, all good too - her choice). Of course, the OP has to take him at his word and treat it as though he was leaving. But most break ups are longer and more complicated and often have opportunities for salvaging the relationship if the parties want to.

HWL it is a well worn strategy to be the nice dad, and the crap H.

My H used to have it down to a T when he had online goings on with OW.

Regardless of whether your H has OW or not, he hasn't treated you well, he identifies with the kids as though he is a teenager himself and he wants them onside. He won't admit it, but he knows at some level he is unfair, and he wants them to make him feel better about himself , and for you to feel worse about yourself.

My h didn't stop this until school started to complain eg about homework etc, and at that point, at joint meetings, I started to tell them openly about our differing strategies. Turned out he was far less willing to defend publicly what he tried to defend at home.

Even the silence when you are annoyed with a teenager or child- he intends it to communicate silently to them.

Believe me, I know ALL about that issue.

OP - you are quite right to insist that he takes some responsibility for his children. It sounds very much as if he thinks he is going to bugger off and live his life as a single and childless man, turning up occasionally to play 'fun Dad' while you do all the shitwork. Sounding familiar?

Don't let him. Go and see a solicitor and insist on a formal contact arrangement.

Sundae,

I totally agree with you. Chuck him out and talk to a lawyer. However, don't burn all bridges yet, especially involving vengeful acts with the children. That way closes all hope of an (eventual) reconciliation. And, even if it does end in divorce, it makes things very acrimonious and expensive. I have seen so many divorces turn out this way (including my parents and PIL). And for what? If you have children, you have to find a way to co-parent and a civil relationship is useful for that.

No one has suggested begging or losing self respect, or not getting on with a single life. All the above would be detrimental to any hope of a long term reconciliation anyway. Crude squabbles over the children are just as demeaning as begging. The best way to self respect is maintaining one's dignity.

"Don't let him. Go and see a solicitor and insist on a formal contact arrangement."

Surely someone should want to see their children?! I would hate, as a child or adolescent, to know that I was going to stay with my father because a court obliged him to have me.

I am not familiar with this area as I am married and both my parents and PIL divorced with late adolescent and adult children, respectively, but can you force someone to see their children against their will?

No they can't force him, and shouldn't.

If he only wants the fun end of it, though, they will see through it sooner or later. They aren't dim!

Don't use your dcs to get at him - you will lose them too.

I was totally honest with mine, I could not, and would not, lie to them so when they spotted something was wrong I told them (they were all teenagers). They have all said they appreciate the fact I was honest and know they can trust me to be honest. My exH lied about the OW for months and it will take a long time before he rebuilds trust with his dcs. one does not have contact, one resumed contact after a year, the other maintained contact. only one of them has met his new wife.

You need to detach from him and support your dcs in maintaining any contact they want with their father. It is not about what is easy for him - it is about what they need. I pity my exH for missing out on seeing his dcs grow wings and finally fly the nest - they are turning into lovely adults and it's been a great couple of years for me getting to know them without being part of the 'mum and dad' unit.

I don't see it as you 'using your DC's to get to him' at all.

It's about making him face the music rather than making the frigging music.

If he wants to go his own way then that's fine but with that comes the reality of shared access. When exactly is he going to see his DC's if he works full time and plays bloody gigs all weekend?

You're right to be bloody angry with him OP. I am!

I'd send a friend to watch the gig and report back.

Maybe it would be better to just get him out for now, it gives you some space to gently tell the DCs what's happening, and start any contact arrangement after your trip away.

Telling them now and straight away sending them to wherever he's staying (which if it isn't an OW, is possibly just some guy's couch?) would be very unsettling IMO.

He has finished work and gone with the band.

He didn't even come into the house.
I just happened to see the band van driving away. I knew he would be in a terrible rush and originally had said I would make him some sandwiches to take.
Needles to say he knew better than to assume I'd do that now.

I did think he would come into the house and at least bring his work clothes in.

Think he has gathered I'm not amicable at the moment.

I won't make him take dds tomorrow, they will just wonder what the hell is going on.

I don't think he will sleep here tonight, I think he will sleep at this "band members" house.

i have made it clear to him to go.

Booked a hair appointment and bought some new shoes too!

I think that now he has 'ended' it with you he will be shagging someone else tonight if he isn't already

Get yourself to the CAB and a solicitor. Work out what you are entitled to. Knowledge is a position of strength.

Also if you have any doubts that he may have played away please consider an STI check.

...but... make sure that you inform him that you are very upset and the weekend after next you will be going away to get some space and think everything over. And HE will have to have the children that weekend.

So he has plenty of time to organise something, but also can't shirk his responsibilities. You should not be expected to carry the children on your own now that he has swanned off into the land of mid-life crisis.

I think he thinks you two are now on a "break" Jeremy Kyle Style

He can go shag a few silly young girls, and come back when he needs some home comforts/his socks washed/his sandwiches making etc

But it wouldn't be "cheating" 'cos you were "on a break"

OP, you are not going to watch the gig on Sunday are you ?

As far as I understand it standard access/custody arrangements for separated couples are one night in the week and every other weekend. That is what myself and most other separated I know do anyway. I think you should push for this. Why should he get all the opportunity to Pisa about with his (almost certainly shite) band every weekend while you look after HIS dcs?! You need to have the same opportunities to go out, see friends, shag around, meet someone else as he does. He doesn't know if he wants a family anymore? Well tough shit, he's fucking got one! Don't let him duck out of his responsibilities.

Goodness there are some horrible men out there.

How can anyone be married for 20 years, have 3 kids and then decide it's not for them.

Well done on hair appointment and new shoes OP!!

Get angry now and do not go and watch him on Sun night. If he is having an affair she will be there.

The time is now to sort your own life out and pursue your own hobbies and interests. I would make life difficult for him too.....just cos I could.

Git.

The OP's kids are 16, 14 and 10. The older two can decide how often they want to see their father and to make the arrangements with him directly. No need for OP's involvement at all, apart from needing to know where they'll be at any given time. Which leaves the 10 year old. Children of that age are coming to the point when they have strong preferences about where they want to spend their time. At that age, they often don't want to spend a whole weekend at dad's and will probably prefer evenings and days out. OP can sort all this out at later date. Most important thing now is to get husband to move out officially and tell kids he's left. Then next week go to solicitor's.

I would have gone to watch the gig on Sunday before all this.

I don't think I will now as if he wanted me there he wouldn't have said he wants to leave.

I don't want to go and feel like crap.

Will you be ok financially houseworkhater?

Definitely don't go......get a movie and popcorn and snuggle on sofa with or without kids.

Yes my eldest 2 can decide for themselves when they see him. But I am not having the eldest go and then expect me to pick her up and take her from A to B because he has other arrangements.
I won't do it.
I don't want her to suffer but I have sacrificed my own needs for 16 plus years.

I just won't do it and dh will have to make a choice, he will have to tell her no and explain why he won't be there for her. Of course he might put her before his own needs, that is his decision.

I am more than happy to do drop offs and pick ups when I am looking after the kids.

I have told dh this during our talks, he just doesn't seem to realise how fortunate he has been with me. That sounds awful but I have repeatedly told him that it won't be like this. You are either married or single, I don't do inbetween.
He seems to think that I will arrange my time around him. I told him that I won't be a nanny.

My good friend and her dp have both said in the past that dh has a very good life, he just doesn't realise it. When my dh heard this he got annoyed with her dp, saying what does he know.

Next weekend I have arranged for a sleepover for dd2 at ours.
I am going to stick to that and I have invited the mums around too. We are good friends so if this situation is still in place I might tell them what has gone on.

I also have committed to something involving both dds and the sleepover girls so i will continue with that.

I don't have a problem with that.

We are also going to see dd1 in a show soon.

Hopefully I will find the strength not to push him over the balcony during the lights down.

Stay strong and calm. House, I would leave the next couple of weekends as set but make it very clear that he has to have them every other weekend after that. They have to stay with him from friday to sunday not just picked up and brought back to you. they should all have to stay at his, Your weekend will be for you to do what you want and that should be made clear to him that doesn't include having to be home for DCs. It is harsh but as you said either you are a family living together or you are not. Your dcs are not just for when he can fit them in. You co parent and if he doesn't like you shouting at them he shouldn't be leaving them in your care any way. They all need to see you are not housewife and mum. YOu had life before Dcs and are now going to have a life after them.

Re: the suitability of his living arrangements. Two weeks is sufficient for him to sort that out or book a hotel that they can all stay in.

OP it'll be a difficult transition but you must not consider the how and why and where of how his new life is. I know you're used to looking after him but just let him sort it all out. It's for him to be reliable and think through the details now e.g. what needs to be done, how will that work out. It'll be a wake-up call too.

Your children can stay with him a few times then decide on longer-term arrangements that suit you and them. I agree wholeheartedly that fitting in around his commitments and continuing to do the heavy lifting of being a parent when he does odd occasions to suit himself is the wrong way to begin. Your children will only respect you if you show self-respect.

Good luck. And start taking control.

(fwiw I expect that if he doesn't have an OW it's not for want of trying. He probably has an idealised view of what his wonderful life would be if you weren't holding him back. When the offers from nubile young Swedes don't materialise he'll likely be back with his tail between his legs only for you to be back in this position in a year our so when he again feels constrained. Just my opinion of course.)