Do you think we ever get the whole truth ?

[Mosman]

H reckons its all out, I have nightlong feeling its not and last time I ignored my guy feelings lo

Look where it got me, why I care I don't know but I do just want to bloody know.

You may or you may not get the full truth. However, if you think you haven't, then that's simply indicative of the lack of trust you now have in him. Whatever he tells you, you'll never believe it's the full story. Has he left yet?

Nope still here, still having counselling. His counsellor is looking at the problems in the relationship, my counsellor has basically said he's a womaniser who will never change because he doesn't want to and I don't know the half of it - based on his experience.
I'm just trying to make the next few months more bearable I think.

Mosman, I have been following your posts about your move to Perth as I have a personal interest in how you are getting on out there; thinking of making the move myself for a couple of years to help Dh live his dream. Am disconcerted to read this post and just wanted to say I am not sure what you mean by 'all out' but I hope you are ok. Sending you lots of hugs

Thank you Ohdearme, I'm grateful for any good wishes right now, am clutching them to my mighty fine bosom :-)

Oh and it's nothing to do with Perth itself although the move has been stressful its entirely DH's three affairs causing the anguish

Sorry to hear what has happened. Do you have any friends out there to lean on? Is your MIL still there? Do you think you will remain in Perth?

Mos I wish I knew. Not sure I have it, 16 months on. Mine lied at Relate for a month, with me.

He fessed up to what I could prove when he was faced with leaving. On my case, it is possible he is telling the truth, but he is also capable of lying, or was.

In yours , who knows? Your counsellor is right that he is a womaniser- you have proof of it. Whether you stumbled across it all or not, is uncertain.

I wish you would read those Pittman books- the one on infidelity and also the one on men. They will really put what your counsellor says into perspective.

Take care.

IMO they only confess the bare minimum.

I knew, just knew, there was a lot more my DH hadn't told me. I also knew that the key to it all laid in his -not so- secret email account.

I bided my time and four months later an opportunity arose and I took it and although the majority of messages had gone there were a few sitting in the sent mailbox that confirmed my suspicions that there had been someone else, in 2009.

I woke him up to ask him about it and he said he'd met her once whilst in London on business. He also confessed to another 'encounter' with a woman in a hotel in Liverpool.

I still wasn't convinced so dug around and it turned out he'd met the London woman twice, at a motorway services travel lodge type place, once for a shag and once (as she put it) for an all nighter.

I could see that they'd kept in brief contact via email and altho it looked like she'd wanted to meet again, he made excuses not to.

So, to answer your question, no, I don't think we ever do know everything. I know that I know everything about the London woman as I have spoken to her.

The Liverpool one..... Have no idea who she is or when they met, he says 2009 but I have no evidence to back that up.

Are there any more, he says not, but given that ive never seen any correspondence re the Liverpool one, who's to say there's more that I haven't seen......

Are you still with your DH ?

Take care

Well not with but we are under the same roof long story but I'm in Australia on his visa so we are stuck together.
This counsellor I've seen is convinced there are one night stands littered between the affairs and is also convinced unless he's prepared to admit the whole lot then we're history.
I know he's done enough to already be history but H desperately wants the chance to try again.

I'd say what he wants is pretty immaterial at the moment. What do you want?

I want to pretend it never happened

Oh poor you Mos.

You are doing so well, going to counselling and facing up to what has happened.

You will come to see that it is good it has happened, for you. Even if only that you become less gullible. For me, the learning about myself has been amazing, even though in some ways it had been a shit year. He has learned too, but, predictably, less.

You can pretend it never happened if that's what you want to do. There is no right or wrong in any of this, what I mean is there's no right or wrong way to deal with it. All people and marriages are different and what would be a deal breaker for some, isn't for others.

I think that there were some ONS in between 2009 and 2012 in my DHs case too. For no other reason than why would he stop? he said because it was wrong, he felt awful (really, well why not stop at once then...) and he couldn't actually do it with one of the women. Yeah, right.....

He says I know everything. It took him five fucking months to drip feed me, but says I know the whole sordid story. So I have a choice, I can either leave and divorce him or I can stay. I can torment myself every day of wondering and searching for email accounts that don't exist and dating profiles that aren't there, or I can take a deep breath and say yes I know these things happened and I'm going to put it behind me.

If you H is full of remorse and genuinely sorry then there may be a way forward together, but if there is so much of a hint that he's not then if it were me I would have to leave.

Sorry this turned out long.

The problem with 'pretend it never happened' is that you risk winding up tormented, anxious, miserable and self-medicating with alcohol, food, credit cards or something else. Because you can't un-remember something this big. It's always there. Every little argument you have, it comes up. Next time his phone gets a text message, you want to know who it is. When you should be hating him for dropping you in the shit, you're hating yourself instead.

I think your therapist is telling you he's lying...

I think a hardened serial cheat is about as likely to reveal the full extent of their infidelity as a petty criminal would be likely to admit to the number of times they stuffed a chicken inside their coat in Tesco.

And where do you draw the line? Do you want to know only the women he slept with, or the ones he asked to sleep with him who turned him down, or the ones he messaged to try and get them to bite, or the ones he chatted up in bars / on trains / in hotel lobbies?

I'm afraid you are going to end up as his gaoler / parole officer by letting him stay.

Just thought a bit more..I suppose what I am trying to say is that the number of times he was unfaithful to you was limited only by his opportunity.

The amount of time he was away, the number of women who said yes, etc.

His intention was always to cheat, whenever he had the opportunity, and as long as there was no risk of you finding out (he thought).

So the whole truth is perhaps better measured less in number of occasions, and more by the level and duration of intent. All the time the intention was there, he might have cheated. And only lack of opportunity stopped him.

In my experience, including friends and partners, no one has ever revealed the full extent of things in an infidelity. There's some stuff that's too appalling for the self to admit to. The most important thing is can that person change and become someone different in the future. do they want to?

it sounds like you're going to be in a paranoid and mistreated state your whole life, OP. invariably when these things are brushed under the carpet, they happen again in some form. Unless you're prepared to be one of these 'blind eye' women your whole life, you have to start planning an independent life.

What do you make of the different views of the two counsellors you are each seeing Mosman?

What gender are your respective counsellors? I only ask because it seems to me that their different perspectives on where 'the problem' lies may only serve to exacerbate your situation.

Nevertheless, even though I'm a therapist myself I think your H is a twunt (but I'm off duty now )

They are both men.
H is sorry but is adamant that I played a part in him being unhappy therefore he cheated.
I have said ill never trust him again that's not unreasonable is it.
I've put it to him that he's ducked everyone who said yes to him he says that's not true. I've also said with the dating sites he was looking for other people to cheat with again he's adamant it's just the chatting and flirting he enjoyed. But equally admits that on at least one occasion that lead to fucking in a hotel room.

My therapist says the problem is first and foremost H's womanising then the relationship and says he would cheat even if everything was perfect it doesn't matter. That does resonate with the first episode and maybe the third but h can't or won't tell me that for sure. The second he was unhappy in the relationship but he'd already crossed the line hasn't he so his default position with me and his first wife is when he isn't happy to fuck around.

Mosman, this is really really clear. He is going to rationalise his behaviour as your fault because it's much more comfortable for him. It sounds very much like he would be unfaithful even if the relationship was good and solid, which few relationships are continuously and forever anyway. Knowing this, what do you think?

THREE affairs? why do you want him?

especially since t does not sound as though he is taking any responsibility at ALL for having done this. He should be on the floor bloody begging.

He was begging now he's bored of all that

H is sorry but is adamant that I played a part in him being unhappy therefore he cheated

Presupposing you had 'played a part' in him being unhappy, it doesn't necessarily follow that he needed to relieve his misery by fucking ow, does it? He could have chosen to discuss his alleged unhappiness with you and, at the very least, have given you fair warning that if you continued to do x he'd seek consolation by getting his leg over with random women whenever opportunity arose.

The fact is that even if you were able to conduct a forensic examination of his motives/methods and view real time videos of him chatting up and getting off with ow, it would do nothing to lessen the impact of his betrayals or ease your pain.

As for the truth, this can be either subjective or objective, but in matters of personal relationship we each have our own which can vary according to our moods/wants/needs.

That said, I believe that at some deep level we know everything and what we might not know at any given time will eventually be revealed, albeit years/decades later.

This counsellor I've seen is convinced there are one night stands littered between the affairs and has basically said he's a womaniser who will never change because he doesn't want to and I don't know the half of it

Your counsellor's opinon is in accord with that of this board. Of course your h desperately wants the chance to try again. Why wouldn't he? He's got you down as a mug who'll continue to service his needs while he keeps his options open.

As I've previously observed, leopards don't change their spots and if you're fool enough to give him another chance, he'll take advantage of it and dump you without a backward glance should he encounter a sheila who's as daft as you are in believing that whatever comes out of his mouth is anything other than a pack of self-serving lies.