Well that's that

[onefewernow]

Name changed for this, but big hint given. (Had to, I have seen MN on his search history).

Well, that's that, a row last night, and he's gone.

I am stunned, relieved, shocked.

But it has been coming, and then some.

I nearly had a bloody heart attack then !

AF I assume you are referring to my slip. I don't normally text on iPhone as much as recently and it autocorrects. One of my weaknesses is that I can't be bothered to preview as I often lose the post, so I go for it, errors included.

That was a classic and I had a bloody good laugh myself.

I have been contacted but refused to talk this evening as I got up early and am tired.

We have agreed 2 pm tomorrow, by phone.

Don't do that to me

Re. the talk by phone.

Make sure he is doing all the talking, while you are doing all the evaluating.

Oh I will. I get paid to evaluate.

Do talk though, so will watch that. Thanks.

And of course, he does like me to talk first, so he can respond, and offer nothing of his own. Then we get into circular arguments where I defend my position,, and he his. He tags his stuff on the end, when we've had 2 hours and I'm half dead. I noticed that before, and suggested a 5 minute rule. He will hog the floor, but in response to my issues.

approach this like a sales pitch

you wouldn't expect to do all the talking and all the enabling when someone wants something from you that you can choose whether or not to give, would you ?

you would wait, and watch

and you wouldn't make a decision about a huge investment on the basis of one phone call

would you ?

And, he usually only mentions his issues after I have mine. So he broods on his, and calls me critical if I don't , or uses his to divert mine .

It's all tactics to say nothing and refuse responsibility .

I so wish he was really one step ahead of me sometimes , hut he never is, in fair fighting.

He is indicating that he is hurt, as he said in response to my " probably need to talk by phone " text " need ..... and want".

I'm more ambivalent. I won't serve up solutions.

Hmmm....can I ask you why you want to talk to him - and by phone at that?

Is your objective to listen to what he has to say, rather than say what you want?

I ask this because I don't think you know what you want yet do you?

So is this to find out what he wants?

I'm not sure he can know that either.

Not long enough has passed and there hasn't been enough thinking and reflecting going on.

Charbon I already know much of what he will be thinking- he wants to come home, apologise and move on. What I don't know is what he thinks he is responsible for, and what he intends to do about it. If not much, and god knows he has had enough time over 15 months, then it will help me to realise that it is not going anywhere, and I can start putting a lot of new stuff in place . If he has new ideas, I want to know.

I know he is capable of change, because he has made so many, so he isn't a lost cause. I want to know how he is planning to overcome the others, which under stress are so ingrained in him.

I know in reality he would do whatever I asked, but I won't ask or tell or suggest. That has been my mistake, not to tell, but to suggest. So he does things for me, and not himself. That is why he ends up frustrated, thinking I'm ungrateful, and unfair.

AF no you wouldn't. My dilemma is that the kids are older and aware- if I didn't have them, I would take way longer, but the limbo affects them negatively. Clearly though, I can't just let him back and forget it all, as we will be back here again.

Even when we were dating in 1990-93, there were two splits of at least 6 weeks and I didn't contact him once. The difference is, there was more anger then, and less maturity. The really frustrating thing with my h is that he does actually change bit by bit, but all hard learned and all as a result of learning at my expense as well as his.

I know he is capable of change, because he has made so many, so he isn't a lost cause.

The problem is that his views and beliefs are so steeped in misogyny that I am not sure if he is capable of changing.

how are things, OFN ?

Hope things are okay, OFN. Be aware that this period will be about desperately wanting to regain some sort of 'normality' for both of you. And as you say, he will dance to your tune passively for a while, while probably going behind your back or doing what he wants for himself. He needs to actively WANT something to change, say so, articulate and enact it believably. It kind of sounds to me like he might be doing what he thinks he 'should' only for things to come crashing down again in a couple of months.

I havnt forgotten you. I have been way too tired and way to busy.

H is coming back today.

We have had a series of talks. His sis knew we had a row but he asked in advance if she would be ok with him not discussing it, so they didn't.

The jist of where we are is that we have had a lot on post the infidelity 15 months ago, with moving house, sorting out finances and rebuilding career streams post the change of govt crash.

We were doing just fine until we moved in may, but after that we took our eye off the ball, and particularly him.

Added to that, it has been the dealing with the issues which were in our relationship prior to the infidelity which have been the hardest to sort. He has gone so far in one way , ie not lying, no OW, making the effort over the summer and autumn to go to places and do things I wanted to do. Then over the winter he increasingly reverted to pleasing himself more, and putting himself first.

There have been issues about compromising, mainly to do with how kids are handled - and it has been on that intractable issue that we have had the main rows.

He has offered to go back to Relate, or do anything else required. He sees that he has taken his eye a bit off the ball, and agrees that he has made less effort than me to raise issues between us or prioritise sitting them out. He says he had been humbled to see how my approach to the kids has had more success than his.

One thing he has asked of me is that I see the glass as half full and not half empty, and not always assume his motivations are bad.

For me, I started to cope much better throughout last week. I went to my slimming club on Thursday am and agreed with someone new to swim with them once a week. I also had a friend and her h over last night and cooked- they just thought h was away for work/ I hadn't wanted to cancel them as it has been booked for months. I went to school with her but we had not made much effort to reconnect when I got back, other than joining the odd girls night out.

I saw that actually I can cope quite well without him, and also that I need to sort out some of those structural issues for myself anyway. I am going to work on that, and rely less on his company, and he says he will do more here. I could cope without him quite well in practice if we split.

I will not be falling into his arms with relief, like last time. This really is the last chance. Last time I said I would chuck him out if there were ever OW stuff again, and I have always known I would. This time I would do it if he doesn't keep his promises to really put my needs further to the core of his thinking.

So I have learned a lot about myself.

The other thing we have spoken about is the relationship between his way of behaving and his family of origin. He is beginning to get that his resentments and distance from his mother about her inability to be a perfect parent when he was young are not so fair. He also took my point that many of the flaws in those family members are not so much different to his own, just expressed differently.

He is very clear that I am serious when I say that I will not be the only person in this relationship to 'caretake ' and raise issues. I am sick of 'leading ' the relationship and its about time he developed some leadership skills and strategies of his own on behalf of this family, which looks bloody different to 'being in charge' and is not just about earning money. Because its the only was he is going to get quite the amount of respect he craves.