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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Something terrible happened last night...

193 replies

Felix77 · 22/02/2013 15:12

Hi there,

Thought I might post as its been playing on my mind and wanted to see what others thought. We have two year old dd who is the love of our lives and she is very 'mummy demanding' at present. Im still breastfeeding her so some nights she will call out for me in the night. I'll usually go in and comfort her as my husband, although he offers is usually in a very grumpy mood and has difficulty getting up at that time - he will usually complain, swear and carry on abut her waking so I just tell him to go back to bed. Lately things have been changing. My hubby has been stressed at work - I have also (I work PT and also study and he works FT). Last night DD cried out - I waited for a little to see if she would settle and didn't so I went in - bf her and put her down but she wasnt having any of it. So I asked hubby to see if he would do it, (a very rare occasion indeed to see if she would stop fussing for me) he went in, sat down yawning and said to her "go back to sleep" in a stern voice. I poked my head around the corner and whispered "do that thing you do with her". Anyway he started swearing at me telling me to F off (in front of the child). I went in and told him to stop - DD crying and screaming for me at this point. so I told him not to worry and go back to bed. He went to the spare room and as I brought her in with me (in the back ground he was yelling out) I was so furious with him, I went to the bedroom to tell him how insensitive he was and he was still swearing at me. I had a glass with about 50 ml of water in it in my hand and so I threw it on him and told him he needed to cool down and control himself. Anyway this was a big mistake as he jumped out of bed yelling "you Bitch!" and chased me to the bedroom where DD was, he grabbed me by my clothes and shoved me forward and backward so I feel over on my back. DD was crying again crying out "mummy". I was terrified that she could see what was happening. My husband swearing and yelling at me at this point - grabbed me again and through to the hallway and I fell against the stair banister. I told him to get his hands off me and he stormed downstairs. I went back in to be with DD to calm her down - her heart and my heart was beating so fast it took me hours to get back to sleep. This morning he acknowledged that he was wrong for swearing but seemed to have a mental block for being physical. I told him that shoving me and pushing me around was wrong especially in front of dd. i also have a mark on my chest from his fingernails. He said that she only 2 so she wouldn't know - however i disagree and believe this should never happen. It has happened before a few times in our 7 years of marriage but he has never hit me. What do you think about this?

OP posts:
yellowbrickrd · 22/02/2013 19:53

Also hope you're OK felix. Tbh I think you had a pretty good grasp of the facts re the incident at the time you posted so I hope you won't allow other people's distorted opinions to affect you.

If he has never hit you before then he certainly crossed a significant line last night and the fact that he now denies using violence and played down the effect on your dd I think makes him dangerous. Whatever you decide to do you need to feel that you and your dd are safe.

Original poster
Felix77 · 22/02/2013 19:54

Hi all,

I have been reading your posts - thank you for the debate and it is interesting to everyone's view point. Yes, I am guilty and wish I had never thrown the water and should have realised that it would escalate. To be honest, his constant swearing and mood swings in the night and last night the swearing I felt was the last straw. He has done this before, we had an argument (away from the baby - once she was asleep) and he grabbed my wrists and twisted my arm (about 4 months ago now) can't remember what it was about now. Thanks for all those asking how I am, I am ok (a bit shaken but ok) and DD fine, I made sure it was a really fun day for her and determined to never let this happen again. He is home bathing her whilst I write this - he knows that things have reached breaking point now so there will be a need to talk. Something will have to be done but I havent made my mind up yet. DD is the priority and I am determined that she will never ever see anything like that again. I have told him that if he ever touches me again or displays aggression around DD there will be very serious consequences. There are some lovely, caring people out there, thank you to all.

OP posts:
Lueji · 22/02/2013 19:59

The point is that both need to fully acknowledge their role in what happened.
While the OP did, her H didn't.

His reaction to everything was disproportional too.

And that makes him dangerous.

My guess is that the OP won't throw any more water.
He is still likely to assault her and insult her again. :(

Bogeyface · 22/02/2013 20:00

Have you promised to never assault him again? Or follow him to continue a bad situation that he was trying to remove himself from?

I am glad that you see the need to sort things out, but you are seriously minimising your role in what happened. How would you feel if he said that if you ever do anything like that to him again then he will leave? Because he would be fully justified in doing so.

I am not saying that what he did was right, far from it, but that you were just as bad, if not worse as you initially escalated it. You need to accept what you did before you can expect him to do the same with his actions.

Bogeyface · 22/02/2013 20:01

He is still likely to assault her and insult her again

But until she accepts how serious her actions were, the same could be said for the OP. Following someone into a room specifically to verbally and physically assault someone is wrong, no matter whether is a man or woman that does it.

Lueji · 22/02/2013 20:01

Crossed posts, but proving my point.

This is the second time.

He should be leaving.

practicality · 22/02/2013 20:02

I think the key thing here is that the OP went to her daughter when he sternly told her child to go to sleep because she is fearful that he would take his mood out on the child. I don't think she trusts him. The fact that he started swearing at her when all she did was to suggest something that might work indicates her fears were well founded.

It is not normal to tell someone to fuck off because they suggest something to you. The OP hasn't indicated that she has been verbally abusive towards her partner. He was very verbally abusive in front of the little child and continued in this vein until she lost it and tried to shock him.

He then physically attacked her after she confronted him because, despite being in another room, he continued in his verbal abuse.

I cannot understand why anyone would try to justify his response.

Lueji · 22/02/2013 20:05

I think you need to read the OP properly, Bogey.

He started the swearing and effectively the whole thing.

The op isn't a saint, and the relationship is clearly in trouble.
One more reason to call off the wedding and split, even if temporarily.

Original poster
Felix77 · 22/02/2013 20:05

Hi bogeyface, our home is not a war zone - Our little girl has never seen anything like this before so that is why this is distressing. I want to protect her from his language, his moods and aggression...

OP posts:
Original poster
Felix77 · 22/02/2013 20:11

I think you are right practicality, trust is an issue for me. I wanted him to try what he normally did with her so she would sleep and he could get back to sleep (faster). I didn't expect the huge fuss..

OP posts:
Bogeyface · 22/02/2013 20:11

Yes he started swearing, but he removed himself from the situation to calm down as any anger counsellor would tell him to do. The OP then got the water, followed him and assaulted him. His reaction was wrong, but it could have ended when he shut the spare room door. It didnt because SHE chose to push it into a full scale row.

I stand by what I said, they are both as bad as each other and for the sake of the child they need to do something asap, preferably living apart.

OP, do you think that following someone who is already in a bad mood and, forgetting the water for a minute, and having a go at them is the best way to protect your dd from his moods? It seems that his "language, moods and aggression" have gotten worse since you were told by a lot of posters that you were in the wrong too......

AnyFucker · 22/02/2013 20:11

felix...you need to split

that is the only way to protect your dd from his moods and aggression...and the effect of them on you

don't you accept that, after both of you crossed a line that should never be crossed ?

FastidiaBlueberry · 22/02/2013 20:18

I agree with AF, this relationship just needs to end.

I agree with those saying that the reason the OP intervened, is because her DP was speaking to her dd abusively - he did that classic abuse thing of "comforting" the child so badly, that the OP will never ask him again. Shame on those of you characterising that as helicoptering, it is absolutely the right thing to do to intervene when one parent is deliberately being abusive to a child so as to not be asked again.

Also I agree that the water throwing is a violent act. However, don't pretend it's anywhere near as serious or threatening an act in the context of an escalating violent relationship.

To accept "equal blame" is minimising the dynamics - remember, he hasn't acknowledged the physical violence, which means he fully intends to do it again.

I don't know if the OP intends to throw water at her partner again, but tbh if it's got to that stage, I don't think acknowledging and apologising while he doesn't acknowledge his much more serious violence, is the way to go. I think if that happens, then five years down the line he will be beating her up regularly and people will be saying: "FGS why didn't you leave him when he first started showing he was violent?" That's what happens in DV relationships - people minimise the first attack, especially if a woman fights back and so then they stay because of this false equivalence thing "you're both as bad as each other" and find themselves trapped.

FastidiaBlueberry · 22/02/2013 20:19

And Bogeyface by saying that she is responsible for his violence because she didn't shut the bedroom door, you are actually making her responsible for his violence.

She's not. She's responsible for her own - the water-throwing. But to say she's responsible for his - no, that is never right.

Shakey1500 · 22/02/2013 20:23

I agree that throwing water is an assault. And I also agree with AF that it has gone beyond.

I'm also perplexed by the phrase "it's been playing on my mind". Now forgive me if I'm totally misinterpreting this but I would only use a phrase such as this to describe something much less than what the OP describes. Had I had an altercation like that it would be more than playing on my mind, I would be fucking terrified.

Lueji · 22/02/2013 20:28

Victims often minimise what happened.

It happened last night, so the op hasn't been thinking about it the whole week.
She didn't feel the need to post here then either.

She wasn't terrified, but it's still violent.

I wasn't "terrified" of ex the times he assaulted me. So?
He still assaulted me.

Suzanna69 · 22/02/2013 20:39

The verbal abuse, the total lack of respect shown to you, the physical attack and the denial following this suggests your relationship has broken down irretrievably. Obviously none of us know the full story but the fact that this is now being displayed in front of your child means you can no longer carry onwithout taking action. I would suggest agreeing to separate although it's not always as simple as that, however once physical violence has occurred it will happen again, it's just a question of when and you don't want that time bomb ticking away in your house with a young child present, it's not healthy for her or you.

At the very least you need to calmly sit down and state what happened. Don't allow him to deny it. He is probably doing this because he's very ashamed but that doesn't mean he shouldn't acknowledge what he did. Take pictures of your injuries (you might need them later if things deteriorate) and show him if he still denies it. At the very least you both need to seek help. If he still won't accept he did this I'm afraid you need to seriously considering ending this unhealthy situation as it will only get worse.

My thoughts are with you and with anyone in an abusive relationship.

practicality · 22/02/2013 20:44

Felix- he has already behaved badly enough to merit serious consequences.

This is the second time he has assaulted you in four months. He didn't learn from the first so why do you think it will stop now?

I think you are in an abusive relationship. The way you feel around his moods is unhealthy. I think he is psychologically abusing you and now it has shifted to verbal and physical abuse.

Nobody should feel worried about their partner and asking them to share in the care of their child. You shouldn't feel the need to be avoidant in asking him to pitch in.

I think you live in fear and will continue to as long as you live with this man. It is not good enough for you or your child.

You need to finish this now. The trust has gone and it is over.

MySonIsMyWorld · 22/02/2013 21:10

please leave. you can do it. please leave.

ifso · 22/02/2013 21:18

he twisted your arm badly 4 mths ago??????

just think about this for a second

ifso · 22/02/2013 21:21

even if your kid doesnt see or hear any further altercations between you two for a while, she will pick up on moods, tensions, body language, emotional atmosphere - she will notice. She will remember. She will have flashbacks when she is older. Mental health issues perhaps - but I do hope not.

You are her mother ffs. You have a duty of care - clearly you dont trust your partner with her otherwise last night may have been different?

Dont just say you'll talk about it and TRY to behave better in future with a man as unpredictable and physically agressive as this. Stop minimising what he did 4 mths ago. In another 4 mths, will you post another thread about something else?

EvenBetter · 22/02/2013 21:23

Sorry you were attacked OP, sorry your daughter was exposed to that, and probably a regular atmosphere of tension, resentment, fear and walking on eggshells.
This is not a relationship, its a sham and is now damaging another generation, who as other posters have said, will at very least be aware of the tension, fear and atmosphere, and now also be scared of seeing her parents behaving like something you'd see on a wildlife documentary.
End it and raise your self esteem and standards, no point analysing it, it's a joke. Relationships aren't meant to be like this.

Titchyboomboom · 22/02/2013 21:25

My dd is 2 and very much aware of everything.

tribpot · 22/02/2013 21:35

he grabbed my wrists and twisted my arm (about 4 months ago now) can't remember what it was about now...determined to never let this happen again.

But it did. And it escalated. You are in danger of normalising the violence.

StitchAteMySleep · 22/02/2013 21:40

When dd1 was two we were in a very stressful housing situation that meant us making lots of phonecalls to complain. She is 3.5 now and mentioned out of the blue the other day that she didn't like it. Kids are aware and remember a lot more than we realise.

Please look after yourself and your dd, the situation is unhealthy and dangerous and you need to remove yourself and your dd now before it escalates further.

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