The Brave Babes Battle Bus - Boinging Into Spring, With A Dance And A Sing!

[Mouseface]

Hello, tis me, Mouse and I'm one of the regular travellers on this Bus!

This is a Bus for drinkers, the completely sober, those fighting to stay sober and everyone in between! No matter what, you're welcome here if you feel you don't like the way you drink anymore, or you're worried for someone else.

Take a seat.

You'll be listened to, looked after and maybe (if you're lucky), slapped with our resident Squid, Barry whom I'm sure you'll meet in time!

So, what have you got to lose by posting? What have you got to lose by coming to say hello and telling us why you don't like the way you drink anymore?

And, if you'd like to see where we've been so far HERE IS THE LAST THREAD

And the reason we're ALL here in the first place, the first ever thread is ALL HERE

See you soon xx

Morning, tis me, Mouse

Joey - I love Christopher Brookmyre :)

EPIC POST ALERT, FEEL FREE TO IGNORE

There's lots of help on MN of course, the *Relationships Topic and the thread for those who have been are in abusive relationships HERE is very useful, but I wanted to post some stuff I found useful for those who are thinking/leaving their DH/P. xx

For those who are looking for support, WOMEN'S AID offer much more than advice about abuse. They can put you in touch with lots of organisations that can help you to sort out childcare, CSA, tell you what you're entitled to depending on who owns what, how to sort out the property you live in if it's in a joint mortgage etc, how best to deal with equity, bills/debts too. Also the CBA can help with the practical things like that too.

For those of you with younger children of primary school age, when and if you do leave/split up from your DH/P, then let school know what's going on. It's very likely that your DC will become withdrawn, upset and very scared whilst all of this goes on and until the dust settles, school could think that they are 'misbehaving', rather than having a really hard time of things at home. They can help you, the more they know, the more they can help and may even be able to suggest ways to help your DC at home. Don't feel guilty or embarrassed, there are more lone parents raising their children now, than children with both natural parents living at home :)

No matter how you try to hide things, children 'know' that things are wrong or changing. It's not nice for anyone involved but the more open you can be, the better for all concerned.

Be honest with them (as much as is sensible to be) and talk to them all of the time. Lots of cuddles, even if they get cross, lash out and become withdrawn, keep them involved. DCs getting upset is inevitable at a young age, that's bound to happen as their world is turning from what is was into something new.

Keep them involved. Explain that you both love them so very much, it's not their fault, it's not because of anything they've done. Children see things that adults don't because they are emotionally attached to us in different ways.

Let them be involved in deciding when they see each parent if it is going to come to that, explain what will work and what won't. Assuming that they can handle that decision and it's practical. Obviously, if one if you is moving far away, then both parents need to take equal responsibility as much as possible.

You can get books from Amazon about families separating and 'different kinds of families' if you think that could help, reading stories about that? Talk to family members you trust and can help sooner rather than later, you need it to come from you and not via the spiteful, upset other half if that's a risk.

Plus, accept all the help you can get. You might feel ashamed to have to be going through the separation process, a failure, broken and so very sad, letting your DC down etc but I promise you, you are stopping the destruction and the hurt in it's tracks, for all of you. You are stopping the emotional pain of having to chose, mummy or daddy.

What I mean is that when two parents live together but are falling out, shouting, yelling, upset the whole time, children often aren't sure who it is they should go to with their worries, or even who they should like, especially younger DC.... even things like homework, who to ask because they aren't sure what's going on.

Younger DC will find it harder but if they have a friend at school with just one parent, I found that comparing them to that friend helped. So, 'we're going to be like Jack and his mummy/daddy now and he's okay isn't he?' (assuming that the child is of course!) and then take it from there. Answer any questions that they ask as simply as you can too. If you are going to have a regular schedule of when they see mummy/daddy, maybe do a weekly chart? Something visible to show them what's happening and when?

Make moving out (if you have to leave) an adventure, make it fun to be going to a new house, new bedroom, new friends, etc... try to minimise the fear by wearing your brave face as much as you can. I know that sounds a bit patronising, I don't mean it to. Sorry.

The other thing I found was that DD spent a lot of time with my mum doing fun things and being spoilt whilst I got the shit stuff done, room in the hostel sorted out, getting benefits organised, getting onto a housing waiting list etc

I put as many of her things in the room as I could, made the bed look like her own, same bedding etc... I know that those of you looking to leave most likely won't be in a hostel, but whilst I moved things out, I kept DD away as much as I could to limit the damage done. I know that might not be possible for everyone.

GINGERBREAD HELP LONE PARENTS

MORE LONE PARENT SUPPORT

DWP TAX CREDITS need know your change in circumstances if you get working tax or child tax credits. Also, any other benefits that you get need to be adjusted if they are joint claims.

You can find out more HERE with this benefits advisor.

££ HELP. Worth a peak here too.

And last but not least, I'm so sorry to read that so many Babes are struggling but I am pleased to read that you are making changes to get the hell out of unhappy relationships.

For some of you, the clarity that sobriety brings will have played a part in that, I'm guessing? You can see so much more through sober eyes. However upsetting it is today, tomorrow and next week, in time, the pain and hurt will ease and you'll find your smile again. You will be happy, you will be strong and you will be YOU xxxxx

Sorry again for hogging the thread and epic post

Welcome Carrie x

Agree with Mouse's post (who can't?) Did the whole 'adventure' thing with the DC when we had to move house. I also managed to arrange with a dear friend, that the DC were on a sleepover on the day of the move. I made sure that their bedrooms were as near to what they had just left and even deliberately didn't wash their bedclothes just before the move so that there were familiar smells when they went to bed here for the first time.

Again, totally agree on the idea of letting the DC's school know what's going on. My DC's school were not only supportive of my children but were sympathetic and supportive to me, personally, when things were shit. (Crying in the Headmistresses office with the school sec and the headmistress more than once!! They'd both been in the same position!) The school have known all my children since DD was 2yo, seen the boys born, held them and made cooing noises! I don't underestimate the value of their support for all of us.

On the 'staying together for the children' front. I stayed with XP for a good 2 or 3 years longer than I should have. We thought we were doing OK. We had separate bedrooms and bathrooms, only overlapped during the DC's bath time when we were really civil, didn't argue within their earshot etc. I was luck enough to seek out and find some counselling at the time and my councillor heard and understood what I told him about us keeping it from DC. The thing that floored me was his question - "So, do you hug? Show affection? Show concern or empathy for each other?" The answer was no. He continued "So, is your and your partners example what you would like your children to take forward, with them, to their own relationships? Is this the level of affection, the template, you want them to expect from their partners?" And the answer is, of course, 'Shit! No!'!! And then I made solid plans to move out.

Hugs Ma. This too shall pass. xxxx

mouse and purple thank you for sharing your experience and advice! Honestly I felt physically sick reading all of that imagining the reality of actually splitting up Fuck I would rather lie back and think of England for the rest of my life than go through all of that. (Fortunately not in am abusive relationship just little love or support) confirms to me I have to do all I can to make this marriage work.

Sorry i know that's not a very helpful thing to say bearing in mind other babes situations, we haven't reached the end of the road just yet but we are hurtling along it. Okay so Relationship moves higher up the priority list , thank you babes for helping me see this x

Hi all, I have been around and reading when I can, but been over-busy with too much on my plate and just not been in a place to post.

ma sorry to hear that things have been so difficult, I remember that phase all too well, even though it was years and years ago. My controlling ex was very disappointed in our counselling, mainly because the counsellor didn't tell me that I was in the wrong and to just get on with my 'wifely duties'. He also complained that I didn't listen. Oh yes I did listen, heard every word, understood the words and the subtext, I just didn't agree that he was correct.

It is unfortunate that your dd heard, because she may well think that she has caused the difficulty. Can you reassure her that this was coming anyway, and that many, many things could have been the final catalyst?

I know it must feel like an almighty mess at the moment, but I can't describe the relief I felt when I was finally in my own place. One of my friends said that I instantly turned back into the lively, sparky person I'd been (despite the stress and trauma) rather than the unhappy, scared person I'd become. I've sent you a pm. xx

Green My lovely, there is a critical point in a relationship - let's call it The Fulcrum' - just like a child's seesaw. Before you reach this point there can be no amount of shit and difficulties and doubts and arguments - but, at this point, there is still the opportunity/chance to shuffle your collective arses back down the positive side of the seesaw and end up with a good outcome. FWIW, I think that, at this point, it's still recoverable if you still, at some level, operate as a team. To get back from 'the edge' entails lots of honesty, talking, work, counselling, whatever.

It's difficult recognising the 'no return' point and, sometimes, even when one is on the inevitable downward slide, one can convince self and friends that it is recoverable. The only person who know where, on that seesaw you are, is you.

Your post suggested that you feel there still might be a way back. Give it all you have - and I (and all of us on here!) wish you every single bit of luck. Research all the avenues and use all the support you can get. But (tried soo hard not to type 'but') keep your own integrity intact, make concessions but not important ones, be open to ideas but not malleable - not for the DC, not for you.

For me, it was, to a large extend, my house kept me from going (and the DC, finances, insecurity, lack of options, scared to cope alone.....blah). My house was a gorgeous 450 year old Suffolk farmhouse (needed a lot some work) but it was the very first place I had ever chosen to live. Everywhere else had been fate. People say fatuous things like 'Oh, it's just bricks and mortar' but it was more than that. I was the place I brought all my babies - brand new, first steps etc, special parties we'd had, plants I'd planted in the garden and seen grown, visions I'd had of the future. But, although I miss it, I don't pine nearly as much as I though I would.

Waffle over, sending hugs, keep posting. xxxx

Hi babes,

ma go for that dinner with your friend tonight and have a good time,don't spend all evening talking about 'd' h,he doesn't sound worth it. Have a good time and a much needed break. Any luck finding a b&B?

curry I was well shocked to see how hard you were on yourself in that post. I was thinking how clever you are and how you know the right things to say (that one passes me right by) and then you said some sad things about yourself. I can understand what you said about your mum. If my parents had been allowed to look after a pot plant before having me,then they might have realised that caring for other living things wasn't their strong point! As it happens, I couldn't give a monkey's about your mum, I'm much more interested in you. You sound lovely and I'm sure you're a great parent.

Welcome back carrie

purple agree with curry about flaky lady, but honestly if I were you, I'd be reluctant to go back too. Even though you KNOW it's not your fault, just seeing her again could trigger subconscious feelings of being abandoned, worthless, anxiety - I totally understand that!

As for the dog, I guess the problem is most people looking to rescue a dog do it because they like dogs... and already have one. You could get on a waiting list for somebody who has just lost a dog? And if ex knows about it, would that make him offer to take her? Even temporarily?

Great posts from mouse and purple

I was going to write the same thing, that it seems like the right thing to stay together 'for the children' but what example does it set for them to see how relationships should be...

venus great to see you again!

Venus - lovely to see you xxx You've been in my thoughts.

Staying together for the children is something I personally couldn't do after seeing other people do it and regretting it.

A relationship breaks down for reason, an affair, falling out of love, growing apart, whatever.

Children need love and affection, one parent/carer can provide that, as can two. BUT they need it in a calm, safe and loving environment. Life is hard and cruel and devastating at times, you might not have a choice, it might be you that wants to go, it might be you that wants to stay and save the relationship with every fibre of your being. The DC/s involved can't help that, they are the victims, the casualties and the ones who are often most deeply affected because they blame themselves.

What Ma's DD said about it being 'her fault' ( itook it to mean that she blames herself for the two of you splitting up) made me weep. How is it her fault? DH is the adult, he's supposed to care for her, no matter what the problem, he's her father FFS. I am so upset for her.

I am a firm believer in making and keeping children happy, after all, that's what being a parent is about, surely? But you can't always can you? You can't always keep them safe from hearing the angry, shouting voices, or from seeing the tears, or from noticing that mum is drinking more, dad is there less.......

So, alone or not, if you can give your child/ren that security, that safety, that love and attention, then do it. Two parents living apart because the relationship has broken down and who then find themselves talking to one another with some form of civility is far better than living in a house full of screaming, fighting, tears and anger. IMO.

Do what you have to Brave Babes xxxxx

Hey Carrie - welcome back.

Purps - I so understand that feeling of more than bricks and mortar. Walking away from memories, from pictures stored in every room as you walk in, the images of happier days gone by, happy times sat at that table, playing that game, her 2nd birthday and the cake hand print that you found just behind the door a week later, the football that got stuck up the tree that your partner had to get out for the 100th time that day, always that bloody tree....

The smell of the garden as it changed throughout the year, the way the light fell across the room in the summer, catching the photo's on the shelf, the way the sofa just about fitted through the door... just!

All of those years, all of the times you walked for hours with those babies, toddlers, children and friends around those rooms and that garden, planting memories. You can't just up and leave, you can't just switch those images off, forget the smell of the lavender tree near the back door, it doesn't suddenly stop being important does it?

It tears you apart walking (or running) away. But if that's the only way, it's how it has to be. I had to leave my memories for DD's safety. Little did I know that the good memories have stayed firmly put, new ones have grown as our journey continued from the life DD and I shared, and now, here, in this house, with DH and Nemo. I always felt that I didn't deserve to be loved, I was damaged goods and not worthy of happiness.

Now I have the most amazing new smells, new pictures, new plants, new lights casting new shadows, new friends, and most importantly, we are all loved and safe here.

I wish that for all of the Babes who are struggling just now. Sorry to keep waffling on.... I'm going to take Nemo for a nap and hope that I can drift off too.

Back later Babes xxxx

Thank you, thank you, thank you babes. I am so grateful for your posts today, have given me so much to think about. I am bum shuffling back up the seesaw as we speak :) feel very close to the point of no return but think if we act we could possibly stop the slide. I'm in awe of you babes who have rebuilt your lives, and can only imagine the pain walking away. You are super brave hero babes in my eyes :) hope others can gather strength from your stories (ma) xx

Has to be said: mouse is awesome. x

Hi all. Won't be around tonight but am OK.

Thanks for understanding about me not wanting to go back to that meeting Joey I'm such a fucking 'people pleaser' that, if she came up to me and was all welcoming and nice and 'where have you been'y, I would want to tell her how she had let me down and how bad it had made me feel - but - wouldn't have the bloody guts, I hate confrontation! Sheesh! Then, to myself, I would feel a fraud, such a coward.

As for the dog, no, XP does the sympathetic sigh whilst saying "If I could help, you know I would" shit!! But then, if I have my more balanced head on (think Worzel Gummidge!) I would have to concede that he has even worse financial problems than I do (of his own making! Oh, sorry, did I say that out loud!?) so saddling himself with yet another drain on his resources is not a good idea. I finally got a reply from the Felixstowe re homing place that was sympathetic and kind and didn't treat me like some sort of monster! Working with them for a solution. Also my vets has posted a 'home wanted' ad for her.

Green Hugs Sending you a small slice of 'peace of mind' to savour later when you have a mo' to yourself. x

Ma How's today been?

Mouse Thanks for your empathy re: the house/memories thing. As a child, I had sooo many house/county/country moves that I never felt I belonged in any one place, never had any roots. (I have a strong suspicion that we both strive to make our children's lives so much better than the one we had). I really wanted my DC to feel some sort of 'belonging' In the end (God, that was the worse 4 months of my life!) I managed to find a rental house just a few miles from the gorgeous old one and it meant the DC went to the same school and were, in fact, closer to their friends. It's been great for them. Pavements so they are allowed to take their bikes out, a park in walking distance, friend in the local private estate. Hope you got a nap this afternoon.

(X post Ma. Let us know how you are tomorrow?)

Thanks gugg. That helps a lot.
I didn't think I was being harsh actually I thought that was quite self-forgiving! But I appreciate you saying nice things to me.

Hard day today. So wobbly, so freaked out.
Something wrong with the car now, no idea where I will find the time or money to get that looked at
AAAAAAAAAAAGH

Thanks for the welcome back everyone. I'm trying to catch up with the thread, but so much has been going on on here since I jumped off the bus, that it's going to take a while! So excuse my out-of-context interjections ...

Day 1 has gone well, got lots of little bitty jobs done - bite size chunks rather than tackling huge projects that would have me feeling overwhelmed before I even start, and would therefore never get done. I went for a long walk in watery spring sunshine, which always lifts my mood, and the free flow of thoughts helps to unscramble my brain and get some clarity and perspective.

I know I don't want to live this life of pouring poison down my neck any longer.

Safe now for the day; have to pick DD1 up from school after an end of term trip, so no chance of drinking before. I have no alcohol in the house, so early night when we all get home, and a fresh, squeaky clean tomorrow.

Please forgive the random ramblings - it's sort of like talking to myself but knowing others are listening, IYSWIM.

Back tomorrow x

Properly day 4. I wish everyone well.

Curry - so sorry to read you're struggling sweetheart. Life is pretty shite at times isn't it? Hugs to you xx

Off to bed, Nemo has lost his last two feeds so a long night ahead in the MouseHouse.

Sleep well those who are in turmoil. I hope that life unfolds a smoother path in front of you at some point.......... xx

Hi all...can i jump back on,, i joined you all couple of months ago, but have been up to my ears in RL ... Also jumping on ( and off..) the bus... Catching up when i have internet... This is always the first search I make... The support here is incredible for everyone... Just that really!! Hope to be onboard or in the side car as much as possible... ODAAT!!! X

Morning, morning, morning

The sun is shining here and the spring flowers are starting to show their pretty colours. And I feel happy.

And that's enough

aww purps hugs to you, the reason I was so understanding was because I know EXACTLY how it feels (well, not the going to AA part, but the rejection and feeling worthless) I would also be seething inside to meet flaky lady, but not dare say anything in case she rejected me all over again! Crazy, isn't it!

ma hope you had a good evening yesterday and found somewhere to sleep last night...

The cold I've had for the last 10 effing days has now turned into a cough so still not drinking. Which is easier to avoid having spent the last 9 months or so cutting down/abstaining etc. But I have to admit I am now thinking surely this has been long enough, am counting the days etc. DH has been sleeping in the spare room for a week (I feel so guilty about that)

Afternoon All!

curry you're so not a crap mum. If you're under par, you're under par. No point comparing yourself with other people. You are you. Takeaways when you're feeling not-so tip top are perfectly fine. Your DC will see them as a treat. Cut yourself some slack, we just cannot be perfect. I think that trying to be all things to all people causes us some internal "shorting out". {HUG}

ma you'll get there. Honestly you will. Your poor DD.... The thing is, and I so hope I'm not speaking out of turn here - is that your DS will know that both you and his Dad love him. The way the situation is at the moment, DD is being pushed away from you. If it were me in your situation, and I do realise that it isn't, so please forgive me if I sound a little harsh - I would go. I'd take both my babies with me. A peaceful existence in a peaceful sanctuary is worth more than a man who needs to point-score against a defenceless teenage girl. If I've offended you, then I am truly sorry. I've been umming and aahing over whether to leave this paragraph in.

purps i know exactly what you mean about bricks and mortar and memories. DS and I had to leave the home we lived in. This was nearly 14 years ago. To this day, I sometimes still think about that house.

I'm afraid I'm in the side car again - I'll be bus/side car hopping for a while yet, I think.

{{HUGS}} to you all.....

After weeks and weeks of non-stop chatter, it has gone all quiet on here.... was it me? Was I too cheerful about the sunshine this morning?