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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships:16

999 replies

foolonthehill · 27/01/2013 20:40

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
foolonthehill · 13/02/2013 22:10

leclerc
Well, you know I did stop contact...but you will need to get some big guns on your side..could you discuss with your pastor? Say you need to stop contact and that you need him to be "encouraged" to give you all some space for eg 3 months whilst you get the children through some proper counselling. have you considered regular Skype contact instead as this gives the children the power to walk away (and can be recorded) as this makes you ultra reasonable in the eyes of the court giving safe access. the longer you can hold him off from court action the better for you as he will almost certainly get access if he applies to court.

make sure your diary is up to date and extensive.

OP posts:
ponygirlcurtis · 13/02/2013 22:10

Leclerc - yes. That is all. Poor DS1. Sad And phone Julie to let her know.

BreatheandFlyAway · 13/02/2013 22:11

leclerc yes this is it. That is abuse of the kind that SS would stop contact. It's physical and emotional humiliation and abuse. Thank God your dear Ds has you and that will make it alright in the end for him. You have more than every reason to stop unsupervised contact on this basis Sad Angry

BreatheandFlyAway · 13/02/2013 22:13

fucking man grrrrr so Angry on your ds's behalf.

TisILeclerc · 13/02/2013 22:17

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TisILeclerc · 13/02/2013 22:19

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TisILeclerc · 13/02/2013 22:31

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foolonthehill · 13/02/2013 22:38

Be prepared lec you may get some excellent advice and back up form SS, NSPCC and Mind etc. but not one of them will write a report that says they have advised you to stop contact and you will be left on your own...sorry to be blunt but you must be prepared to fight this yourself and be very sure that you can and will.

Is there any protective benefit in supervision before you get to no contact?

OP posts:
Noonelistens · 13/02/2013 22:41

Leclerc I feel so for your little boy. It is hard enough to think of him being with fw without being treated like that. Thank god he is able to be relaxed and reassured with you

TisILeclerc · 13/02/2013 22:43

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TisILeclerc · 13/02/2013 22:44

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BreatheandFlyAway · 13/02/2013 22:55

Leclerc you didn't make this happen ((hugs)) and you are the healer and will be the safety for your dcs' mental health because you got out of the ea relationship, you are decent and caring and loving and are protecting them from this.

TisILeclerc · 13/02/2013 23:14

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FairyFi · 13/02/2013 23:22

what an amazing mum you've been this evening Leclerc to have lovely chat and then be the safe haven for your little DS when he needs to and can share this kind of humiliation safely with you. They know who they can trust don't they! Who will be safe and there for them. Very very grrrrr on his little behalf at treatment from his [FW] parent pah

Sorry it sounds like you have a bit of a fight ahead of you to do this, but you have an army of ladies here on your side to support you through. Its also much improved since separation, thanks to you!... so its all moving in the right direction.

Me and my DD1 had got to a place of peace last night, and agreed to calm talks tonight to go through the issues. We, peaceably, went through part 1 of highlighting the things we want in our relationships, like our rights, to be heard and not shouted at, etc.! On her list was no punishments, like temporary suspension of ipod! (which she is currently without as a result of being very rude recently). We sat quietly and listened to each others lists this eve. Only adding a little more explanation where needed. tomorrow we will talk about more and put them together as our own house charter! then we had quiet chats about the dynamics of school friendships at the moment. All lovley and calm. Fingers crossed for the more gritty details tomoz. She doesn't want me threatening consequences for shouting and rude to me, I think suspension of precious things like ipod seem to make sense, but I don't know. I want to be completely open to changing things, but I don't think it will be helpful for her to have no consequences/clear boundaries, and just walk all over my rights to not be shouted at and extremely rude to? I was going to ask her what she would suggest as consequences for this kind of behaviour. any suggestions tell me what to do would be appreciated. xx

Idiot FW try absolutely bollox to waiting til after football, forgets the court and doesn't want to discuss family til the foootball's finished! Just so similar.

BreatheandFlyAway · 13/02/2013 23:37

I feel freed by his patheticness! Thank you fw for not being able to sustain the kindly mature facade, because it makes things SOOO much easier for me Grin

TisILeclerc · 14/02/2013 00:03

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TisILeclerc · 14/02/2013 00:05

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minkembra · 14/02/2013 00:24

TisI how would ds feel about not seeing him? I am not saying he should or that you are not right but you may have to 'bring him with you' in any decision. otherwise if he sees not seeing his dad/not going on trip as a punishment or negative consequence of telling you something ( that you really need him to be able to tell you) he might clam up.

Sorry. not trying to make this harder for you but kids can be so conflicted when it comes to these sorts of relationships that it is a minefield. and really don't want you ending up as the bad guy not just because you are not, he is, but because the kids need to be on side if you see what i mean.

Its so hard because if you don't protect them they may take it badly and if you make decisions they don't agree with to.protect them....

So just suggesting you have good talk to him about he feels about it and what he would like to do and maybe involve someone who can take objective standpoint (and also if need be take any heat off you in that the kids cannot later say it was cos you don't like FW but because that he did was wrong)

skype contact sounds like good idea.

sorry if i am sticking size tens in here... Not fair that he makes all the f ups, you make the hard decisions and the kids take the consequence of his behaviour.

minkembra · 14/02/2013 00:38

fairyfi i am big believer in consequences as behaviour modifuier. Italy nite wrong. boundaries are a positive thing. i try to keep them related to the action but goddam it is sometimes nigh on impossible. i bet she wants there to be no punishment for being rude Wink would suit most teenagers (and our respective fws and exes no doubt)

First consequence could perhaps be that if she does not want removal of privileges she has to own her behaviour, apologise, and phrase her request differently. even if it is just to avoid further sanction it is a good exercise/check on behaviour to think instead of shouting XXX i could hav said y and z. And she will need to accept that sometimes even f she does ask nicely the answer may still be no. the ref's decision is final.

But i could be talking out my arse. my kids can be pretty rude and shouty [sceptical] and it is a while since i dealt with teenagers and when i did it was work...or my exes freakishly well mannered kids (not his influence) the boundaries were different.

minkembra · 14/02/2013 00:43

Italy nite wrong!?! Phone! It is not wrong. Grin

Obviously Italy is nite wrong too but hardly relevant to the matter in hand. Or hardly relevant to the matter in ghandi as my phone would have it.

Fwiw when i say fir instead of for that is also my phone and not a Scottish accent! Grin

minkembra · 14/02/2013 02:25

Am having a bit if a long dark nighttime of the soul so forgive me but i am going to self indulge and get it out here to try and i dunno purge some of it.

This is going to sound dafft and is a bit tongue in cheek but somewhere inside i have a self image if myself as strong/immutable/invulnerable (must have been all that pretending to be wonder woman as a kid (dated myself there)). So e.g. adverts, nah they don't affect me. victim of da, nah not me (subconsciously bought into the insidious and totally wrong idea that victims of da are weak an idea completely disproven by you guys) i am not weak therefore what went on was not abusive (wrong)
That's why it took me so long to see it.

things he has said have not changed me. if anything i could thank him for making me tougher. etc. etc.

But now I'm starting to doubt my cloak of invulnerabilityWink yes i did often stand my ground. But did i do it in an abusive way? Was it actually not a good strong thing but a bad thing.

And actually did he toughen me up or have i reacted by protecting my vulnerability. i.e. i suspect if i were in another relationship where in the past i might have been prepared to expose some of my ishoos for the sake of better communication i would now fear having them turned against me. E.g. I'd be reluctant to say previous relationship was verbally abusive in case they came back with no it wasn't you are mental and a bitch and no wonder the poor bastard used to shout at you. who wouldn't?

Had got really guarded about what i would tell ex because he would turn it next time we rowed. hd used to say i didn't self harm anymore cos i didn't need to because i had him (meaning i could punish him instead of self (not as i used to reply in my head- yup you are just another of my self destructive behaviours))

Would not say work was stressful cos that would turn into 'yes well don't take it out on me' or not as stressful as mine.

Have had serious MH issues in past (mostly ok now) and i sometimes rely on those around me to let me makeknow if i am having a wobble as i can only tell retrospectively but could never discuss it with him as it would then be the cause if my unreasonable nagging or whatever. (not always but sometimes- occasionally he did do the right thing- but enough to make me v wary)

Could not say i have this problem with dc because that would elicit what do you expect? That is down to your lack of discipline. you should have cracked down on them like i told you when they were little (i.e. hit them) then they'd know who was boss. It is too late now. i am having nothing to do with it cos you won't let me make any decisions about how to bring them up. they are your problem

Dam it i am not wonder woman after all Blush explains why i cannot jump twenty feet in the air though.

he has got inside my head.

Still maintain he is EA light, the margarine of EA because others on this thread have endured real cruelty and torment and been trapped in it but dam him he has still got into my head and i have changed my self in response.

Well first step recognition- hence the long confessional post. next step healing. i will just have to change back (and start wearing my pants on the outside of my spandex tights again Grin)

if excessive use of brackets were a super power....i could be parentheses woman.

MaggieOnTheSofa · 14/02/2013 02:53

Mink stay strong

Fly what a bloody FW! Sad about DD thinking he was crying

Fi Glad things calmer at home, hope it continues to go well

Leclerc so so sad re DS1 Sad you are a brill mummy and I often look up to you. He is so lucky to have you there to protect and love him, stay strong. What a FW. Why do they have ways of making DC feel so awful about things like that Sad

WAVES at everyone else, hoping all is as well as can be expected, sorry not had chance to read back far enough in thread but thinking of you all x

In other news...PANIC...in my haste to move stashed stuff to storage unit the other day, I so stupidly forgot to move the most important thing-my secret carrier bag with documents/passport, secret bank card/storage unit info. I had it hidden in DSs room under his chest of drawers. I'm so stupid, so so bloody stupid. Well after the strange goings on today-FW looking in loft, carrying on about me running away with kids etc when he goes away with work at end of month. It eventually clicked and I remembered my secret carrier bag. Went to check it, it was still there but he had found it and been in it. F**K. I had tied it in a special way and it had been tied back up differently and the stuff not put back in neatly like I do, also the stuff I had stashed around the drawers had been put back in a different order. I am soo bloody stupid. He didn't go out to footie tonight so I went to bed for the evening just to avoid him after DC went to bed (now back on sofa) as he's gone to bed but I just don't know what to do? He is pretending nothing has happened so to speak and not said anything about finding my stuff. I have now moved it to another hiding place but worried now he knows about my storage unit, has my solicitor details, secret bank account etc etc. What do I do? Had to canx solicitors appt today too as snow and he was getting really funny during the day about me "going to the doctors".

What the hell do I do now?

MatchsticksForMyEyes · 14/02/2013 06:58

I know you don't want to, but could you go to a refuge? I fear for your safety now he knows about the contents of that bag. Will he be at work today?

TisILeclerc · 14/02/2013 07:02

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MrsMorton · 14/02/2013 07:28

I'm going to write to my mum today. I have the stamps stashed in my journal. Obv H is being really nice to me at the moment which makes it harder to maintain my resolve.
maggie it sounds awful, the sooner you're out the sooner you can relax because I bet you are wound up 24/7 even if you don't notice it. Tenterhooks anyone?

tisI you're a great mum. I want to be one of those one day.

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