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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Relationships

Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships:16

999 replies

foolonthehill · 27/01/2013 20:40

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin


Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!




Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
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arthriticfingers · 28/01/2013 06:48

Thanks Fool :)

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arthriticfingers · 28/01/2013 07:01

I spent a part of yesterday thinking about the jumping on the sofa story (only a part - promise :) )
It brought flashbacks and I realized that there was so much more to it.
FW's violent reaction left crying, angry, guilty, upset, sad children. It created an 'atmosphere' for the rest of the day. It sent me between comforting disconsolate children and telling their father that he was out of order to hastily cleaning 'his' sofa (everything was 'his') and assuring him that no permanent damage had been done in the hopes of calming him down (obviously, I know, now, that he was perfectly calm; it was just an exercise in bullying).
Half a day gone out of my life and the children's because FW had 'gone off on one' a day we will never get back. :( Angry (actually, furious angry emoticon spitting fire and with smoke coming out of its ears!)
The irony of all this is that I would probaby have told the children off for jumping on the sofa in their shoes Confused Instead of getting the message to think before they did something inconsiderate, the only message they got was that their FW father had gone apeshit - again Angry
But, of course, I was a useless parent whom the children had not respect for. (will have to design an emoticon angry enough for this !)

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FairyFi · 28/01/2013 12:55

thanks fly, I jolly well shall! Grin

I don't understand mine's rules, they seem to be completely made up (they didn't follow any logic or consistency, as I think like yours arth it wasn't about good discipline and boundaries, but bullying because I don't think he had a clue about boundaries, and cared even less). If it was the wrong day, wrong mood and time then look out basically, hence eggshells as it was so darned difficult to know which day and time it was to be! Mostly energy was consumed in those days searching for clues!

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TisILeclerc · 28/01/2013 14:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hissy · 28/01/2013 14:52

The rules are that there are only the rules he sets... until he changes them.

If he's stated something is black when you know it's white, it'll stay black. the minute you agree that it's black, he'll say it's white.

They do whatever they have to, to make sure WE are in the wrong and need punishing.

You can't win. He won't let you.

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ponygirlcurtis · 28/01/2013 15:03

Oh Leclerc, that is grim indeed. Your creative group workshop sounds vv interesting!! Hope you enjoy it and aren't too tired.

I'm going to see a house for rent on Thursday. I don't know if it's the right house but the wrong time, or the right time but the wrong house!!!

Pros: It's in the right area (for DS1's school), has a garden, v close to DS1's best friend's house. It's the right price rent-wise, 3-bed houses don't come up at the price often.

Cons: Location-wise it's a bit closer to my parent's than I'd like (on the same street), And it's at the other end of the estate from here I am now in the flat, meaning that I'd be back to not being able to walk into town, which I find v handy and gets me out the house easier than if I have to lug the pram to the car, etc. Although rent's the same as the flat, it would mean paying out for credit checks and a much higher deposit. Plus, I don't know if all the upheaval is right for now, with all that's going on.

It's the right house for DS1 (for his friend and garden), but not for me and DS2 (for getting out of the house, etc). But I do worry about DS1 not being to get out to play with friends once the weather's nicer, think it could help him blow off steam.

So, in summary, I am going to see it but don't know what I'll do if I actually have to make a decision!!!

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arthriticfingers · 28/01/2013 15:49

Pony Just think that your life is so much better that you have a choice where both options have something going for them. :)
Such luxury was unimaginable with a FW pissing on our lives!

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FairyFi · 28/01/2013 16:03

Pony if its any help, I'd err on the side of the option that makes you happiest. You're the one that creates happy home environment that these little energy drainers thrive on! If getting out to town easily is it then that might be the best way to go, there are opens space for DS/friends to play too? I think you'll know more when you get there too.

yy to freedom of choice!

cheers to lovely lie ins leclerc - I got my TR done 2 days EARLY! yay!

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Noonelistens · 28/01/2013 16:53

I've got as far as writing down the WA phone number but have put off calling all day. It seems so pathetic. If I can't even ring to get the names of Solicitors then how I will be able to eventually leave him. I just don't think I've got the strength. We've been married 10years this year. Although I think the EA mainly started in the last 2 years (basically since DD was born) I know that there was an element of control present long before then. I'm so frightened I'm going to suddenly find another 10 years have passed and I've totally wasted my life.

pony good luck with the house. Like arthritic said at least you get to decide. I think we have had our decision making taken from us for so long, or that we are so conditioned to trying to guess what is the 'right' decision according to our husbands rules at that time that we forget how to make a choice. At the end of the day I'd agree with fi and say do what is most right for you. It may be worth waiting a little longer for the right house to come along, rather than having to move twice in a short space of time.

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FairyFi · 28/01/2013 17:36

Its just one day listens Its not pathetic atall, and all of us here have been through the same possibly. We've felt its too hard, not enough strength. Try to call WA and get the names, even if you decide you won't do anything with them straight away. Just a bit at a time. Baby steps (an expression often used on here). Take it little by little. You will get there and it won't be taking 10 years really it won't. It isn't us that are pathetic but we are often left feeling this way in this situation. WA will be huge support for you to start these steps. take care x

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MaggieMay05 · 28/01/2013 20:13

Just checking into new thread, thanks Fool Thanks

Am drained at the moment.....just general FWerty....will come back on later...thinking of you all x

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NoraLuca · 28/01/2013 20:25

DM called tonight to ask why I don't stay in our current flat, and H move out. Hmmm, let me see.... because he doesn't want to and I can't make him. Then DM said what a shame it was I couldn't keep the flat, it's so nice and spacious and the rent is low and the girls like living there and... I'd been putting a brave face on all day at work but had to terminate the conversation with DM before I burst out crying! Its funny how people say the wrong thing, even when they mean well.

Noone I'm sure WA are used to people calling them and being hesitant to talk. If you could just call them they'd probably know the right things to say, not just launch in and tell you to call the solicitor right now and start divorce proceedings! Anyway, its often the first step that is the hardest, the rest just follows.

Pony maybe seeing the house will help you decide?

Hissy it does seem like H is not a nice person. I am kind of hoping that its the depression doing this, and not his real personality. I have suspected him of being depressed for a long time, but he wouldn't hear of it no matter how I tried to bring it up. When he's on his own hopefully he will take his medication and feel and behave better. Incidently, does anyone know how you're supposed to take diazepam? H says the Dr told him to take a tablet when he felt he needed it, but I thought that ADs were meant to be taken at regular intervals? Am going to wander over to the mental health boards I think...

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NoraLuca · 28/01/2013 20:32

X post Maggie, hope you are OK Brew

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Hissy · 28/01/2013 21:26

Nora - google the drug and its efficiency, I suspect you're right. If he takes them 'when he needs them' you can bet your behind that it'll somehow be something YOU trigger in him.



My jury's still out on your dm btw, stick to your plan, you need to get safe.

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FairyFi · 28/01/2013 21:27

I'd be wary of taking Diazepam atall Nora Its only good in the very short-term as its so addictive from my experience. I would worry about just popping them as and when, but cannot advise against a docs advice! I only take them as I have a chronic back condition, and, now very rarely, would take short sharp dose to get me through a couple of days, three at the most. It works differently to other AD's in that they, yes, do need time to effect changes in the brain to start working. I am surprised to hear a doc prescribing them tbh as they are so addictive. others can maybe balance that view?

Take care Maggie hope you hear you ok? (apart from being so weary with it all, hope your plans are coming together and are grabbing sleep on a real bed wherever/whenever you can.. thinking of you. x

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BreatheandFlyAway · 28/01/2013 22:11

Hi ladies, got to court and it was adjourned due to a technical mistake on my part. No biggie, I actually feel reassured by the future being punctuated by court dates so I know I'm not sliding.

Re diazepam, it is good as a sticking plaster but not a long term solution, IME. I have used it frequently for panic attacks but have always been wary of addiction. I am sure the doc would have given more explicit instructions than your H is conveying TBH.

When my fw isn't trying to manipulate me back into his control, he is emphasising the panic attacks, with the implication being that of course I am mental if I don't want him, as he couldn't possibly contemplate the fact that he is not wanted anymore.....

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BreatheandFlyAway · 28/01/2013 22:12

nini are you out there somewhere? I often think of you and hope you're ok. xxx

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TisILeclerc · 29/01/2013 05:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ponygirlcurtis · 29/01/2013 09:40

Hey Leclerc, am really thinking of you so much. Just that post alone, you have so much to deal with and you are managing so well - but I think you're right that you are managing externally but not internally. That's how I feel too. I think you've been so used to internalising all your feelings with FW, not letting on how you are really feeling because you don't want it to start something, that you are unused to doing anything but coping and getting on with things. So I'm glad you are going to see the GP this evening. Just be truthful and say what you've said here. You must look after yourself.

Breathe, what a shame the court was adjourned though, although you've got a good perspective on it. Hope you are all doing ok.

Thinking about you all, Nini, Maggie, bertie, Charlotte, Fi, Nora, listens, Matchsticks and everyone else. So many of us. Sad

Still feeling funny after last week, and all the stuff going round in my head. Felt really flat yesterday, doing way too much thinking about stuff. This morning, on the way back from the school run, as I was walking I was having an imaginary conversation - I was re-imagining the conversation from when FW and i were lying in bed and he turned to me out of the blue and asked if I'd contacted a solicitor. (I had.) He then demanded to know what I'd said and threatened to get his own solicitor to make me reveal what I'd said. (Cos that's how it works, not...) In my new version, I read him the riot act - told him that if this was his response to hearing that I was so unable to cope with his ongoing abuse that I was looking to get away from him, after less than a year of marriage, then we were over. That he needed to sort himself out, and stop behaving the way he was, he was a disgrace of a man. In my head, he was apologising, and I was strong and determined, telling him like it was.
In reality, I froze in terror when he asked if I'd spoken to a solicitor, because I was waiting for him to kick off (again, with the baby in the cot by our bed). I was literally paralysed, could hardly speak. But he didn't do or say anything, which was worse because I slept not a wink all night, waiting for it to start, my heart pounding so loud I was sure he could hear it.

Aaaaaargh!!!! They are a bunch of FWs. I hate that I wasted so much time with him, I hate that I've become this shadow of myself. I was talking to my friend's brother last week at the funeral that I've known for years, who's ex-wife was very controlling and dominating (and we all knew it and warned him not to marry her, the only bright side is that it didn't last long...). He's still single, obviously a bit damaged by his experiences as well, but he's such a lovely bloke, and we had a great laugh, and it was just so bloody normal. I just kept thinking of how different things would be if I were with him instead of having been with FW. (And probably have been thinking about that a little too much... Blush). Head is full of spaghetti today.

But am heading off for a Christmas present treat, afternoon tea with teeny sandwiches, cakes and prosecco with one of my besties. The way I'm feeling, I know I'll want to quaff the prosecco and start on the gin, so have opted to drive...

Have a good day everyone. Thanks and Brew

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betterthanever · 29/01/2013 10:29

pony I think it is great you felt this other guy was nice. My CBT guy is always checking if the impact of FW is having a negative impact on how I view others.
Leclerc I can always feel your pain when you write about what you are having to do. Sorry to keep quoting CBT guy but he always says to me `but you are doing it' and that how I feel about it when I am doing it will improve and the key is just to keep doing it. I am glad your Mum will be there some of the time, you will feel empowered on the days when she is not and you cope - you will.
Breathe I wish I was as confident about court as you are, do you have any tips for keeping strong and not just crumbling, crying or freezing please?
Off to see my sol tomorrow - I need to establish some proper lines of communication as she is letting little things drag out and bog me down and I still don't think she understands the impact my ex has had in the past and is having now. I need some clear space between the things I have to deal with to keep me sain and have as normal a time as possible with my DS. The GP details have still not been sorted and a letter has gone to his sol without me seeing it first. I guess I am trying to keep some control and/or have some say in a situation that keeps just dragging and pulling me in all directions. Words keeping running through my head, need to shut up the chatter... I keep running through the various sitations I may face in court. It is exhausting. Sorry not replied to everyone, I hope everyone is as well as they can be today and as many small steps as possible are made.

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TisILeclerc · 29/01/2013 10:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

doingtwelvethingsatonce · 29/01/2013 11:07

Leclerc - glad you've gotten some support in RL as well as here.

Been taking a break somewhat. The stress was overwhelming, trying to NC and make sure H hasn't seen me posting here. He's not home right now, as he went into town. He was supposed to go to counselling, but rang me and was ranting about how the counsellor wasn't in office today, even though she had made an appointment. He sent me a text saying he was going into town as he wasn't fit company to be around right now. Happy at least that hopefully he'll be in a better mood by the time he gets home, but we'll see. He tends to "revisit" things that irritate him and get angry all over again, ranting.

H has been putting some effort in again, but it's still exhausting. Waiting for the other shoe, and most frustratingly, having to "police" his behaviour all the time, like telling him to stop shouting at us or telling him he can't speak to (or in front of) the children that way.

I'm upset because he has spent the entire weekend on edge and irritable because he said he was nervous about the counselling today. Now, we'll go through a week of him being in a bad mood, then another weekend of irritable while he gears up for the next appointment. I don't know why he's nervous. The counsellor only sees what he chooses to tell her, which I'm pretty sure is a glossed over version of why he's there.

GP wrote H another sick note for 2 weeks off work last week, so another full week of him being home. He's getting edgy now about returning to work, and I'm getting nervous he'll get more time off from GP. I've been trying to keep up with the thread, but it can be difficult trying to read it without H (or our DC that can read and will read out loud over my shoulder!) seeing it.

Hope everyone is okay.

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FairyFi · 29/01/2013 11:35

Just wanting to add to your point about the h/w with FW situation Leclerc, as, ooo, funny that, the same! No surprise by now I guess that this is another sameness in their scripts. No homework time scheduled at contact, not even considered whether time should be allocated. All in a state upon returning home, late, as usual, without homeworks completed, continually. If it was done, there would be big moanings by his fw gf about the school and the levels of hw etc. (thats nice when you're a kid and need to sit there and listen to it whilst doing your homework). I use to do as you, as in allow much later bedtime so that homework could be done. It didn't work, I had to say, in the end, that I could only allow the time before the evening watershed of 7:30 to get homeworks finished. Sometimes that meant h/work wasn't done in time and warnings received, but it was very obvious who wasn't allowing the time for it, and I couldn't keep taking on the responsibility for the things FW wasn't doing. It made it very to DC aswell, as I set this as a boundary going forward to be aware of (WA instrumental in this plan)

have lovely lunchtime Pony - cheers! seems you've come a very long way indeed! (In my head, I have too, but its only in my head - just like Fonteine :(

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FairyFi · 29/01/2013 11:39

Tears welling leclerc at reading your last post. So very ..awwww... mmm. restoring faith.

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betterthanever · 29/01/2013 11:47

I want your GP leclerc so pleased he said that.

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