Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships:16

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

nini will b v annoying if he doesn't sort out car but if he does not is it an option fir you to drive him to work? Cannot remember if you said it was miles away.
Not ideal but better than him leaving you with no car....
Or else could you buy a car while he is at work. ;-)

anyway i notice i've been right blether today sorry all for long posts.

pony good doing re. being civil.
And i don't think ex will ever see it any other way than my bad as he is a total revisionist. I have seen it in the way he talks about others.

But i cannot worry about that. things were the way they were and i have to live with him blaming me and no apology. my life has to stop being about him.

Hi min Unfortunately driving him isn't an option, his new job is just over half an hour away and I work in the town we live in. He could get a train or bus but has refused. If he takes the car I won't be able to get DD to toddlergroup on the day I'm at home with her and will have to cancel work appointments (which will piss off my employer). It's a bit of a heads he wins, tails I lose situation.

And yes, time to learn that your life is not about him. I look forward to the day I can do that too

nini if this were a soap, you'd remove the spark plugs before he was due to take the car...then fix it, go to toddler group... shame it is not a soap.

speaking of, I actually used to get jealous of arguments on soaps- I used to think look there is a couple disagreeing. they are clearly annoyed and yet taking each others points on board accepting responsibility where due and no one has been called a fucking idiot, shouted down and they haven't dragged up something that happened years ago. amazing. why can't we argue like that? can't believe I had argument envy

although not when the women on 'enders fight. they are always slapping each other...like that is ok !?! have nearly complained on several occasions as I think it sends out totally the wrong message.

sorry soap ramble.

I was thinking a "chunk" of plates was somewhere between a "chink" and a "thunk", Leclerc. :o

Had first counselling session today. Was surprised by how bloody furious I still feel. I nearly cried once, but then found myself ranting on and on. I am worried it must be bloody dull to listen to. She thinks I didn't set any boundaries in the relationship and that I must do so in any future relationships. It makes sense, as loads of people would tell me about disputes and what they'd put their foot down over and I had never been able to do that.

Hi, we'll now I am confused. I brought up the duck egg convo, the event that I didn't go to and the going out for the day for 7 hours. He was calm said sorry about the egg convo and again went through the exact convo that we had on Sat and why he was irritated by it. Then he said that he thought that I knew he would be out all day and that he hadn't manipulated me into not going to the event. All calm and no shouting, makes me wonder if I am over sensitive.

Sounds like gaslighting to me lahti.

Not oversensitive, Lahti. I had been meaning to post earlier in response to you saying you'd have a conversation about it with him - and I would have been predicting something not to dissimilar to what happened.

When he went over the conversation again - he was still only addressing his issues within it, he gave no quarter at all to what you are feeling. By going over the exact words, he is just more heavily reiterating that he is right and you are wrong, by his definition.

Regards the Saturday thing, definitely gaslighting. Your post on Saturday reports him as saying that the reason he stayed out was because he hadn't heard from you so assumed it was ok.

And I would also have predicted that you'd come out of the conversation feeling like you were the one in the wrong...

Here's how I think it would have gone if it was a normal (not EA) relationship. (I say think - my barometer is a little off these days...)
You: Darling, I wanted to talk to you about Saturday, about you staying out for much longer than you said, meaning that I missed my event.
Him: I'm really sorry that happened. I feel terrible that you missed your event. Next time I go to my brother's I'll make sure I'm back on time. I'm sorry, give me a hug.

Ok, Ok, I know, no-one talks like that!!!! (except in my head, obviously) but you know what I mean. In a normal relationship, the wife would have been justifiably pissed off at her husband being away all day on a Saturday like that, and doubly so if it meant her missing out on something. She would be able to express her upset at the time, and he should hold his hands up, say 'I messed up' and apologise properly and sincerely. Then they move on. That's not what's happening. You've been shut down from expressing yourself, and he's only interested in his side of things, not about what you are feeling and thinking.

Not oversensitive. Not a bit.

YY to the noises and the death stare. I've had many a loud ranting from fw on why I have to "slam" the kitchen cupboards, the car door, put things down so hard (like cups) - I find myself doing things very softly but really I don't think I did them loudly in the first place - but let's face it, even if I did, why should that be an issue? He talks really loudly, especially when he's trying to "explain" something to me or kids; I don't mean his regular screaming and shouting, this would be his "normal" voice - my ears would be ringing. But if I ever comment on that, his reaction would be "don't try to silence me" etc! FW bingo full house again!

Today I saw lawyer who gave me advice on what to say in court this week - hearing re prohibition, residency and also conciliation meeting prior with CAFCASS. Then next day we have mediator. When in with mediator I am going to tell him I want a divorce.

My lawyer said if I can bear it, stay in family home and make him leave. But ask for official undertaking from fw in the court that he will refrain from mistreating, abusing (verbally or otherwise) and intimidating me in home while we are sharing it. And if things are too awful, to leave, but making it plain it is because his behaviour is forcing this and that I wish to return kids to family home (without him) asap.

I feel much better after seeing lawyer and having a route set and planned by him (albeit scary). Also kids are getting nice and settled and I feel things are back where they should be in my relationship with them. Also we've had an offer on the house we have to sell to clear debts. Many a slip twixt cup and lip on house selling, so not getting too excited about that, though.

pony - "shut down on expressing yourself" is exactly right for these fw conversations. Lahti that was classic fw spag head convo, it sounded so like many of mine!

Lahti, what Fly said.

Thanks pony I wasn't very clear in my post. The decision about the event was taken the day before he went out for 7 hours. I felt that he had manipulated me into agreeing with him not to go to it because as soon as I had agreed he rang his brother to arrange to visit him. I would still have gone to the event but he would have hated every minute and moaned about it that is why I ended up not going.

TisILeClerc poor dd2. That is rubbish for her and for you. She will probably see it all for that it was when she is older.

I wonder if some kind of family counselling for you and the girls would help them get it out. obviously without the FW.

In angry email of last night, ex told me that he had tried to explain to me before we had kids that you only have so much love and you have to divide it up. and so once i had the kids he was obviously the net loser. He said it was like taking 100 pennies and dividing them between all the people you love.

He must think i button up the back.

How weird is that. By that logic, now he has 4 kids he either loves the older 2 half as much or has not enough left for the younger two.

So ridiculous that I m almost laughing. in his world i stopped loving him cos i ran out if spare love not because he was shouting abuse at me.

Reinforces the point that there is no reasoning with an irrational person.

Mink that's an interesting question, re. were you controlling etc. I often wonder if I wasn't controlling towards H, or if I didn't patronize him sometimes. The thing with H is that he often seems to make the 'wrong' decision - for e.g. not applying for a permanent job, because the perm job needs someone to start immediately, and he was already in a temp job with a few weeks left to run. Then he sends his application letters out with spelling mistakes, and I could never find a way to help with this - there just wasn't a way to broach the subject of getting his letters proofread without him kicking off about not being thick. I will always wonder if his reactions weren't my fault somehow.

Pony yy to FW managing to turn things so that arguments aren't their fault. 'Don't provoke me or I don't know what I'll do,' was one of his stock phrases! 'Provocation' could be anything from talking during mealtimes to wearing the wrong thing.

I went shopping today, only to Lidl but it seemed like a big adventure. I never usually do the shopping because H says I do it wrong. I bought one of those boxes of teabags with all different kinds of tea, H wouldn't have liked that. I don't have a fridge in new house, this is a PITA. I have powdered milk instead of fresh, I hope this will be OK for the DC. I need to have a read of Nella Last in the 1950s , she has loads of meal ideas for skint, fridge-less people

I think I could do with counselling of some kind.

breathe , mink , pony , leclerc and everyone else. It's funny but frightening how similar they all are. Thinking of the noise making but actually about everything. FW Bingo Full House just abouts sums it up perfectly.

mink and pony thanks for explaining how your ex's react to the straight talking as to what they've done. It's good to formulate in my mind how the conversation will go - cos after all they ALL seem to think THE SAME. I'm going to put off having that conversation until I've logged a bit more behaviour. The diary is going well and really helpful because today H is actually being quite fun and pleasant ... so that I'd start to think maybe I'm wrong, but then I can read what has happened all week and I strengthen my resolve

lahti - I agree with everyone else that your P is trying to mess with your head. I'd really recommend the diary thing cos then you can check back.

nora - could you check the local paper, adverts in newsagents etc for a fridge? I bought one very cheaply once. Might just make things a little easier for you?

nora or freecycle for fridge or gumtree . I've bought few appliances off gumtree with good success. although this time of year here we used to hang a carrier bag out the window. main danger was the milk used to freeze[hmn]

pasta al putanesca is a good store cupboard tho if you like olives.

noone i talked to ex by email after split. don't think i could he done it face to face. was not physically scared of him but it would have been too hard to face the shouting. If you are going to confront him I'd have a good read of some of the links above to manage your expectations and decide what your boundaries are first.

Main thing stay safe (all of you).

Hi all, really sorry not read thread, will try later. Tonight has been awful with FW, he has lost his driving licence and needs to produce it at work on thurs-something to do with them hiring a mini bus for next works trip. Well he is turning house upside down room by room looking for his licence, he has discovered I have taken mine and kids passports and gone mental, I've said they are in my wardrobe/cupboard somewhere (they are at my mums 100 miles away ) so he says he is going to empty my wardrobe looking for them tomorrow as his licence is probably with them. He is also going to go through DC rooms and other cupboards downstairs. I have managed to get him to go to bed now until tomorrow but am really panicing now. My emergency bag/paperwork etc is hidden in DSs room and other stuff like lundy books are hidden in various cupboards around house under other stuff that he wouldn't normally even look at. Also have some stuff packed up in bags hidden ready for me to take to my storage unit when he's not around so don't know how I will explain that. Oh god! I don't know what to do? He is off work the next few days too :-/ I am frantically searching for his licence whilst he is in bed so he will stop this manhunt but its no where to be found. He says he knows I'm up to something and is going to get to the bottom of it over the next few days :-/ Have secret solicitors appt on wednesday too, I've told him I have to go to the doctors, not sure he is going to believe me now. Am still really sick with flu/ear infection too and don't have the energy for any of this. Any words of wisdom would greatly be appreciated and sorry I've not had the chance to catch up on thread yet x

Maggie no words of wisdom but I am really wishing for you to find it.

Good luck.

Take it you cannot take risk of moving other hidden stuff. really do not know what to suggest.

Maggie - is it possible that he has suspected something is up and has used this as an excuse to search the house? Please be careful. If you're still looking, try some obvious places that it might be - such as tucked in the wrong spot in his wallet, or the pocket of a jacket (H's favourite place to put things).

I'm reaching panic point here. H asked me last night if living with him really made me that miserable. I told him yes and that we needed time apart. I told him that for me, a good day was when he didn't go off at me or the children at all, and technically that should just be a normal day IYSWIM. Told him that the comment he made about "making a special effort to be nice" to me and the children was just so so wrong - you shouldn't have to make a special effort to be nice to your family. MIL is coming over for lunch today, and he is going back to her house and staying "until Friday." I then said I wanted him to stay there until at least Sunday, which caused some raised eyebrows, but he said if that's what I want, he'll stay until then. I'll go from there, honestly, as I don't want to rock the boat at the moment. Of course, since then, he's been very quiet and calm, no shouting, very considerate. In short, he's behaved much better, so of course, it's stressful - as I see how he COULD be.

I know his reasoning will be that he wants us to work on it as he is just starting counselling and thinks it will help. But he was in counselling before, started the same way - this'll probably help, then gradually going to "I'm feeling much better". He'll then quit the counselling, be okay for a week maybe and then go right back to before. We've been through this cycle over the past couple years and I just have to keep reminding myself of it.

This is so hard. I feel almost physically ill. Why is it they don't make an honest attempt to pull it together until it's just too late? And I know that if I relent and he stays or comes back, he'll just slowly slide right back into it?

Maggie please take care. I hope that you find the license quickly.