Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships:16

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

x post Breathe I'm sure you will move soon, if a ditherer like me can (almost) do it, anyone can!

I am definitely a grade A ditherer!!

Hi everyone. Too many posts to reply to them all. I've had a lovely day today as took dd to my parents. H will not let them come here as he does not like them - but won't forbid me for going to see them. So I've had a lovely day but am now home and being punished with the silent treatment.

The thing that has most resonated with me tonight has been the "do what you like" comment - I've had that twice already and been told that I never listen (AKA as I've disobeyed today).

I have a little dilemma that I would appreciate your advice on. I noticed a doctors appt on our calendar. Asked H what he was going for. Was told he was taking DD about her feet! I asked what was wrong with her feet and was told that I should be able to see as it's obvious - had a look, can't see anything. H refused to show me/tell me.

I have decided that I'm not going to beg to be told why my own daughter is going to the doctor. Instead, if he hasn't told me by the time she goes then I will book an appt myself with the Dr to find out what happened in DDs appt and also to mention that my H is EA so there is something official on record. Do you think that is ok? Would it be classed as wasting a doctors time?

Great idea listens and no, deffo not wasting dr's time.

Just had angry email exchange with ex. i sent him a i hope we'll be friends eventually email a few days ago.

Now realise this was my mistake. i shouldn't be his friend. He isn't a friend. i was doing it for all the wrong co dependent reasons.

He replied today with a whole load of poor me. its the kids fault you don't love me. Its your fault the kids are badly behaved. I'm on my own in my dilapidated house and its not fair that i have no one to love me.

I replied setting him straight and saying you are on your own because you chose to treat me the way you did.

But that is it. with you guys as my witnesses. no more trying to gain his approval. i don't need to speak to him. i don't need an apology from him. i need to move on, walk away and deal with the things that i did wrong and not make those mistakes again.

My midnight oil is burnt out, Breathe and so am I!!!! And no end in sight to the work - tis always the way, it seems, with freelancing, feast and famine. Yawn. Haven't had a but did treat myself to mint cornetto! I knows how to live, I does.

listens i agree, wouldn't be wasting the doc's time at all. It would be good for you to speak to someone. I can only help.

mink, I know what you mean, my desire to smooth things over with FW was very strong. I now have the 'Disapproval Game' poem copied onto my desktop and I read it frequently. I now try really hard not to do things for him, but for me (or the kids). Accept he'll never be your friend. Accept he'll never accept what he did, and never really 'get it'. They're all FWs!!!

Hi all. Just after a bit of advice really. After yesterday when H went out for 7 hours leaving me without the car and the infamous duck egg discussion of the previous day I tried to mention that I thought it wasn't on and he has brushed it off as no biggie. Anyway I am now getting the "are you all right, you don't look happy" and then this morning "what's up? you are being a bit funny" . This all points to a heated debate thus evening which as you know will tie me up in knots and he really won't get it, as in his mind he has apologised for being out for 7 hours, and the event and egg convo were just rational discussions that I had agreed with him about even though I hadn't iykwim. I hate this kind of thing as it just makes feel worse and as he will start getting mad which I hate I will end up trying to pacify him and say it is all ok. Any advice on how I can handle it better? I will also try te counsellor again today.

Yy to the tension building. It's awful, every time he takes a breath I think I'm going to get a hard time about something.

I also get "do what you want" which means "I strongly object to your plan and will go on about it for several weeks if you carry it out but I wont explicitly forbid it".

Lhati I wish I had some advice for you, but I seem to do exactly the same. H will start the 'are you alright, what's wrong, just tell me' , when I do end up telling him it just turns into a heated discussion too, with him not understanding and trying to pin it down to 1 issues (typically that's not his fault of course), I too end up apologising for making a fuss and pretending that everything is ok again.

Just needed to vent about last night, and now just now... just now I bumped the phone off the sofa, cue loud crash, so of course H hears, starts shouting down the stairs 'what was that loud crash' etc etc....

Last night I curled up in bed to watch a film as I've still not been feeling too well. This was after playing a computer game with H for an hour... Anyway at 9.45ish H comes through and sees I'm still watching the film, tells me 'you know it's almost 10' cue me saying yes I know, but the films really good dah da da, basically justifying myself still being up. So H says so are you going to watch till 10:30? (our standard 'bedtime', which of course he can stay up beyond, but if I want to I need a reason, H starts saying, I'll stay up as well then sigh). Anyway I say yeah I guess and I'll finish watching the film tomorrow night (H did not looked pleased). So 10:30 comes and theres only half an hour left on the film, thought that when H comes through I'll say about just finishing it. H has set it up so that films etc are played on the tv from his computer. so just after 10:30 the film stops playing... H had just turned his computer off without warning me, knowing that it would stop my film. He comes through to go to bed, gives no mention of it, just a curt 'night'....
i feel that that shows a total lack of respect for me?

Yy to the 'do what you want'. Also the every time he takes a breath, I feel like a naughty child expecting to be told off.

Just thought of something else. Sorry I keep posting these, but it's so good to help me get my thought straight. Whenever I do a uni assignment and it's ready to be handed in both H and his mother go through it to 'check grammar and structure etc'... I wouldn't mind if I said hay can you just look this over, but it's a given now that they will do and I'm being unreasonable if I don;t want them too, as they are just trying to help. H does not get it, I have brought it up with him before and he just thinks that there is no problem, they are just wanting to help me do my best, and anyway 'he always got his mum to look his over when he was at uni', oh and of course my mum wouldn't be as reliable

TCM how old does he think you are? You are being treated like a teenage daughter (if that), certainly not like a life partner.

Silver that is how I feel, exactly. He just doesn't get it. I feel that we got together when we were both so young, and as I have grown, the relationship hasn't. It's nice to see that I'm not crazy for feeling like this,

Just got off the phone from the counsellor. She was very kind and pointed out that he came across as very unreasonable and selfish. I said that I just didn't know what to do about it though and she said "well, you do know what you can do about it" but that she couldn't tell me what to do. I am assuming she meant I could leave, do you think that is what she implied?? She wasn't being pushy or anything. She may have just meant talk to him but I think she would actually have said that. She seemed surprised that we only had 6 sessions with RELATE after his EA not sure if that is important or not.
Anyway I feel a bit stronger about talking this eve as someone impartial has validated how I feel. Sorry for not going through all your posts, 3 year old at home on half term.

Just got off the phone from the counsellor. She was very kind and pointed out that he came across as very unreasonable and selfish. I said that I just didn't know what to do about it though and she said "well, you do know what you can do about it" but that she couldn't tell me what to do. I am assuming she meant I could leave, do you think that is what she implied?? She wasn't being pushy or anything. She may have just meant talk to him but I think she would actually have said that. She seemed surprised that we only had 6 sessions with RELATE after his EA not sure if that is important or not.
Anyway I feel a bit stronger about talking this eve as someone impartial has validated how I feel. Sorry for not going through all your posts, 3 year old at home on half term.

Well my mum has just left, and I couldn't bring myself to tell her I am planning on leaving H. Feel really deflated and crap right now.

Lahti, really glad you got to speak to someone.

Tired - I know how hard it is not to feel defeated and down when you've not been able to find the words to tell someone. But that doesn't mean the end of it. You can always phone her, or email her, or even write a letter - saying that you had wanted to tell her all these things face to face but just couldn't. Sometimes, it's easier to write them down, then you only have to deal with the person after they've thought about it for a while, and don't have to deal with their initial shock etc, which I've often found just made me feel even worse.

I read something on another thread (by MerlotforOne). Someone on there posted yesterday about doing anthropology work abroad and immersing herself in the culture/religion. It resonated with me because she described it as living in a state of suspended disbelief - on one hand an integrated member of the community, on the other a detached observer. That's what it's like sometimes living with a FW. You are involved, of course, but once you know what he's doing there's a detachment. But that doesn't stop you being involved, which can be frustrating because now you can see yourself in it and it's difficult to get out of - the poster said she found it disorienting and lost herself for a while (and ended up so immersed that she nearly ended up 'married and keeping goats'!!). And that's just without all the FW head-spaghetti.

So, just got letter from FW's solicitor sent over. As predicted, he's refusing to negotiate, knows he has me over a barrel. I still struggle to believe that he could be this inflexible and unfair, demanding money for mortgage payments (for when I haven't been living there) given what happened in our relationship - although I'm sure he doesn't see it as such. I could cry. I had been feeling not bad today - despite being up so late last night I felt good about having gotten such a big work job done and out of the way, and was getting through more today, I felt I was achieving and being 'together'. Now it's all come crashing down.

Is it completely wrong that I'm trying to think of ways I could get to him after we've signed all this off? I would probably never go through with any of them but it's helping me not much, really to think of revenge plots!!!! One thing I will be doing for certain is changing DS2's name to my maiden name. Can't do it officially by deed poll, but he can 'be known' as that, and use it at school, at doctor's surgery, etc. FW can stick that in his pipe with his bloody money and smoke it till it makes him puke.

pony what's the disapproval game poem? I think I could do with a copy of that? BTW I can fully understand wanting DS to have your name!

TCM My H also overreacts to noises and things. Apparantly I'm clumsy and careless anyway and can't do anything quietly. Sometimes if I bang my mug on the table (accidentally) instead of placing it carefully then I can glance at him 5 mins later and he's still staring at me. He makes me feel like a naughty child when he speaks to me. I say 'don't speak to me like that please' and he'll reply 'stop acting like a child and I'll stop needing to speak like one'. Is that really how he thinks other DHs speak to their DWs!!!!!!

minkembra - just interested re your ex. Does he accept that how he treated you was wrong? I haven't fully broached it with my H but I know he thinks that he's right and I'm in the wrong for being difficult. As in everything was fine until I found my voice and started to object to his behaviour. I too in my deepest heart wish that ultimately we could stay friends(ish) as that must be so very much nicer for DD than having parents that struggle to be civil even - but guess that isn;t really going to happen.

pony in Scotland as far as I know yu can change your name by habit and repute as long as you are under 16. I think after a few years of you being known by a different name it is then easy to change it officially.

I could be wrong but it is worth looking into as I am pretty sure I recall one of my friends doing it with her kids years agio and aking us all to send him letters addressed to his new name as it were. it is definitely different north of the border though.

TCM don't feel too disappointed for not saying anything. it is bloody hard. possibly over the phone or dare i say it by text is better if it is easier on you. I saw a few of my friends last week fully intending to tell them I had exed the ex and just couldn't so I just texted them later and then sat in floods of guilty tears. and it was not the traumatic a split for me. no moving house etc.

still haven't told most of the people I work with or most of my friends (that we have split- not going to tell them anything much else unless I have to)
keep meaning to tell the kids child minder and school and it is probably irresponsible of me not too but
a) one of the dcs tells everyone everything
b) he didn't actually live here (just acted like an annoying visitor- all the benefits none of the bills/very little housework although he did look mildly shamed when I pointed out that most other visitors e.g. my mum, his kids did more to help out than he did) so it i kind of difficult to explain. he hasn't moved out and the kids still see him
c) I fear public crying.

so basically I am saying I have had a much less difficult decision to make and still find it hard to tell people so don't be too hard on yourself. when you feel ready, say something and that will make it more real. when you can manage it it will be the first step on committing to the idea (which possibly you are avoiding because in case you might get talked out of it). but in your on time.

noone no he thinks I am mental, heartless, lacking in compassion, living in a fantasy world etc. etc. he is hurting badly just now and having a really really good wallow in self pity. when he is in that state he cannot and will not see himself as anything other than the victim no matter what I say.

he did almost admit he was wrong to shout abuse at me but in the same breath told me it was my fault and did I not know it would happen (because of what I (allegedly) did).

Don't get me wrong. I know I did some things in retaliation and out of frustration that I will now have to own and deal with. I can see now that I reacted badly and I need to learn not to do that. but that is the difference I can see that. I can't blame him for my bad things. he can't take responsibility for his.

everything he has said has been about how hard this all is for him. how no one loves him. how it affects him etc. etc. which in some ways has been very helpful as it make me realise he will NOT change.

we are civil for the kids. in front of the kids and about arrangements for the kids but that will be it I think.

have a read of baggage reclaim^^ on speaking to your exes. opened my eyes and made me see I was making mistake trying.

pony scratch that www.deedpoll.com/name-change-scotland.htm
You can call yourself whatever you like in Scotland (which is different to the law in England.) but to change name on passport because it is a UK passport etc. you need both parties if you both have parental responsibility.

the kids can however, change their own names very easily if they wish when they are older.
I thought because we are not married I could change their names (not that I am going to) but apparently as he is on their birth certificate I can't.

Mink I think that's just it, I know that when I tell someone then suddenly it'll be more real, and I'm so worried about H talking me out of it, and making the wrong decision. I know that I can't keep on living like this, there is so much that I want to do with my life when I leave H, but at the same time I still care for him, and I'm struggling with the finality of leaving. He's all I've known for 9 years, roughly a third of my life...I'm also struggling with putting my happiness before his, I feel so selfish for hurting him just for my gain...

TCM You cannot change him or fix him. he is responsible for his own decisions and his own happiness. You can give him the opportunity to change and if he doesn't want to or cannot admit that anything is wrong then you may have to consider whether you are hoping you can fix him. (You can't)

I feel bad. My ex is miserable. but at the same time he is the architect of his own misery. He does not feel the slightest remorse. (which is not because he is not capable of it- he is, just not over this). and i am heartbroken and grieving. but still when push comes to shove, me or him, i can only choose me because I have to be kind to myself and the situation as actually bad for both of us (and the kids!) and because I am the only person that I can actually control.
(can you tell I am trying to get over my codependency issues ;-) )

have actually been thinking that rather than speaking to him I would quite like to speak to my ex from years ago with whom as far as I am concerned I had a very good relationship to see if he thinks I was controlling or unpleasant or codependent to him- head so turned around just now that although I can see my ex was verbally abusive I cannot tell if I tend to try to control other people or belittle them- god I hope not but my ex is making out that I did and I'd be an arse if I wasn't at least prepared to explore the possibility. so many arguments so much water under the bridge that it is hard to tell. I do know that his behavior was way more extreme than mine and I can recall exactly when it first happened but I still wonder if some really nasty tendencies have crept in there in some kind of horrible tit for tat.

on the plus side- you have your whole life ahead of you! it may take you a while to find happiness but there is more chance of that if you make some sort of change.

listens, that sounds awfully like my FW too. He liked to bang things around deliberately, to intimidate but if I coughed the wrong way or was biting at my nails or made a noise he didn't like, I'd also get "the stare".

You asked mink: Does he accept that how he treated you was wrong? I can guess the answer, but here's my experience. I would guess it's not that uncommon in an EA situation.
My FW didn't accept it while we were living together - he would sometimes apologise and promise to try harder, but most of the time we had problems because I was 'argumentative', I was the one with problems (according to him). It was only once I'd left that he admitted how badly he'd behaved and promised to get help. Then, over the following 3/4 months, while he was trying to reel me back into moving back home I got many emails waxing lyrical about how awful he'd been, how bad he felt, how he recognised he'd been abusive and that was wrong. At the time, it made me feel so sorry for him, I wanted to run back home immediately. But in all these emails there was nothing about me, it was all about him, how he felt, how me leaving had made me feel. Then, when he started to realise I probably wasn't moving back, it started to turn again. I was the one causing problems, difficulties, he said. He had to protect his girls from the harm I was doing by messing everyone about.
FW and I are fairly civil to one another when we see each other. But that's because at the moment, that's how he is deciding to be. I will always try to be civil, I hope, but I can only control my own behaviour. If he decides to be a complete arse, civility will be impossible because it takes two. You can only be civil if you both decide. Otherwise it's just you trying to pleasant in the face of his FWittery.

Yep, another FW with the noise issue - if he's in a bad mood or I've done something he doesn't like he loves to bang things around in the kitchen as loudly as possible. I get 'the death stare' if I so much as knock the remote off the sofa.

I found our mortgage contract and looked up how much we would have to pay if we leave our fixed rate before the end of this year. Typically the terminology is complicated so I need to ring the bank to ask them. FW saw me with the mortgage stuff last night and asked me what I was doing. I was so close to telling him what my actual plan is (sell house, start divorce), but chickened out so told him I was 'looking at options'.

About FW cocking up buying a new car - not only did he mess it all up, the seller tried to contact him saturday evening but despite playing games on his phone all that time he didn't see the missed call until 10pm. I told him to call or at least text, and he refused as 'it was late'. Then didn't make any attempts to contact the next day. He has a week until he starts his new job, and has no car. I can forsee a huge argument brewing when he decides to take our car which will leave me in the shitter - I smell this argument in the air like a storm coming.

I looked online to see if I'd be entitled to free legal aid, it appears not. Anyone know if you have to take your spouse's wages into account as well as your own?