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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships:16

999 replies

foolonthehill · 27/01/2013 20:40

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
MatchsticksForMyEyes · 04/02/2013 21:15

Yay for your new phone leclerc! Many hours will be wasted on it I predict if you are anything like me.
pony how are things with ds1?
try, I think I have missed a vital post from you as don't know what happened with the flat. Did you manage to get fw out of your house?
lahti, well done for ringing the counsellor. I am seeing mine for the first time next Monday.
Maggie hope you are managing to get more things out of the house and that he is not at his FW worst at the moment.
charlotte what is the latest with your plan?

Sorry to anyone I've missed.

I had a fantastic night out on Saturday with my best friends. I told them it was the night I wanted for my 30th, but 2 years late as wasn't worth trying to organise it when we were still together. It was such a nice change to be with people who wanted to celebrate with me. I managed to avoid a stonking hangover somehow.
I suspect more fw behaviour over next month's cm fees. My total cost for childcare next month will be almost 500 quid if he doesn't cough up. My solicitor is ringing tomorrow afternoon to clarify how I want to proceed. The quickest and cheapest will be my answer. Hoping it won't take long to get the nisi now we've agreed on the finance.

TisILeclerc · 04/02/2013 21:41

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ponygirlcurtis · 04/02/2013 22:11

Hey all - haven't been posting much, had a really big sudden rush job to do over the weekend, been up late last few nights. So am sympathising with the studying ladies on here, haven't had to do late nights and concentrating like that for a while!!! Grin But it's more work, and more money, which is good cos I have been running out am frantically burying my head in the sand... The good news on money front is that FW has started paying maintenance for DS2. Although it's not nearly as much as I thought it might be, so am only just getting by (and that's without having a landline/broadband to pay for).

Loving the new phone action Leclerc! not jealous at all, I love my very functional and non-gadgety phone, oh yes, no shinies for me

Matchstick - your night sounds fab!!! not jealous of that either... DS1 is fine, thanks for asking - no idea what was going on on Saturday, it really looked like he was faking stomach cramps, writhing about, but I don't know. Could've been genuine, his cousin had something similar recently, a virus. But seems fine now...
I'm not sure what's happening with Breathe (Try) - the flat fell through, and she's ended up back at the family home with her FW, but it doesn't sound like that's going very well (massive understatement). Hope it's getting sorted (in a Mafia 'sorted' kind of way).

Anyway, my eyes are on stalks and I promised myself an early night. Thinking of you all, lovely ladies.

TisILeclerc · 04/02/2013 22:55

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Noonelistens · 05/02/2013 00:32

Hi everyone. Not been online for a while as get too many huffy puffy comments from FW. But think about people lots. Have done a quick skim through and caught up on all the events.

I have made a few baby steps.

  1. I've phoned WA - they weren't able to answer and i didn't leave a message but at least I've got as far as picking up the phone so I know I can do that again.
  1. I've started a journal particularly for all those minor snidey comments that you can't remember so I feel like I've started on the long road to evidence and maybe even breaking free.
  1. I've renewed my car insurance all by myself. A pathetic thing I know but the look on his face of annoyance has given me so much satisfaction. I had some spare time at work so checked out the quotes. Found the best quote. Comapred all the little extras. Normally I would have shown this to him for his approval but I thought 'It's MY car and My money. My research has made me decide that this policy is the best for me'. So i bought it there and then and then casually mentioned that it was all sorted so he didn't need to worry about it. Cue a million little questions.... because obviously I'm not capable of making such an important decision by myself hey Hmm
FeelingLousyAgain · 05/02/2013 09:54

Hello, I'm not sure if I'm posting in the right place. I posted in Relationships last month here. The basic story is that, at the stat of Jan, H told me that he wanted to leave, then spent the next few weeks going back and forth, saying one day that he was committed to our relationship, then the next, that he couldn't give me any assurance of his commitment.

It has been such a hard month for me - I feel as though I've been under my own personal black cloud - and now dh has moved out, to stay with a family member for a while. I've kind of reached the end of the road emotionally, I feel completely used-up and exhausted, and can't imagine being able to have a healthy relationship with him. Although he was the one who wanted to leave etc, he's now saying that he wants to stay together - I think he's realised that he could really lose me, or maybe has lost me already. Meanwhile, I'm just starting to see what life on my own with the dc could feel like. It's not that bad! In many ways I've felt like a lone parent for a long time anyway.

I feel terrible, still - I feel so guilty and selfish, although I don't think that's rational Confused I've had two counselling sessions, which have made me realise that the marriage has always been about him. I've remembered (I had previously stuffed this all down the back of my mind) that he's threatened to leave on various occasions, and has let me down terribly, over and over again. It all hurts so much. We've had one marriage counselling session together too, which also was all about him Confused. We have another booked this week, but I'm feeling very Hmm about it. I don't really know what I'm saying here really, other than 'help'. He isn't at the worst end of EA, but he is on the spectrum.

MrsMorton · 05/02/2013 11:00

This morning, H texted to tell me that I didn't tell him I love him enough in my text messages... so I just texted him at random to say I love you (which I do, I just don't like him very much...) and I'd texted him earlier about a meeting I have to go to and he texted back and said: "I love you too. Another meeting!!" I have about one a week, they are never after work and I'm never late home (unless the train is delayed) and I run a department of six people with a budget responsibility of about £150k.

I just can't believe that he's happy to live the lifestyle we do based on my salary (I earn over twice what he does) yet he begrudges e doing my fucking job AND moans when I try to better myself and can't even support me in my work.

I know i'm lucky to be financially secure however the prospect of redundancy is very very real over the next two years and I'm worried about it but he's happy to spend £50 on wine every week. I'm just fed up of it, death by a thousand fucking cuts was never truer.

foolonthehill · 05/02/2013 12:46

feeling no matter where he comes on the spectrum of abuse it's still not right. The only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none at all. It sounds like he has done you a favour and left you alone for long enough that the FOG has lifted and you can see who he really is.
You are welcome here, if it is helpful to be here.

MrsM quite.

OP posts:
ponygirlcurtis · 05/02/2013 14:01

Listens, you are doing great! Well done getting your car insurance sorted. He might notice you pulling away a bit now, as he was perhaps a bit shaken about you doing it yourself - he could ramp things up either way - become much more difficult, to put you back down, or become super-nice to make you forget why you need to detach!
Make sure you phone WA back though, it's so important to speak to someone in real life and they are so so helpful, I've found.

MrsM, it sounds like it's just another way to control you - 'You must tell me you love me more'. It's like a demanding child, not an equal.

Feeling - that sounds just awful, no wonder you are drained and all your emotional (and physical) energy used up. Maybe you need to be a wee bit selfish right now, and do whatever you need in order to support yourself? If that means delaying going to joint counselling right now, so be it. If that means cutting off most contact with him apart from him seeing the kids, till you get your head together and mentally rested, so be it. What do you want to happen right now, and how can you get as close to that as you can? Hope you are doing ok, what a horrible situation.

I've spent another morning that I wont get back at the council offices again, trying to sort out my housing benefit application again. Angry Grrrrrrr. Just blinking well tell me if I'm entitled!!!! Six months I've been doing this now! They surely have all the info they need to make that judgement. It's just hoops and red tape now.

Been reading my Practical Parenting book in fits and starts. Not far into it, but it's helping (partly, helping me see my own deficiencies, which is hard to take but I have to be honest to help DS1). Leclerc, I've thought of you lots as I've been reading it, and your struggles with DS1. From what the author says about boys especially struggling with feeling 'isolated (in a 'tower') and acting out/actively pushing away the very people they want to be close to, you are doing a damn-near angelically perfect job at holding him and connecting with him when he's being like that with you. You is fab. Grin I am learning lots from you.

TheSilveryPussycat · 05/02/2013 14:57

Bit of good news. Some of you may recall me claiming the front room with new cushions.

Have now reclaimed one of the spare bedrooms with ...er... a good friend Blush

minkembra · 05/02/2013 15:53

feeling Meanwhile, I'm just starting to see what life on my own with the dc could feel like. It's not that bad! In many ways I've felt like a lone parent for a long time anyway.

I totally know the feeling. ex made himself so utterly dispensable that him not being there is really no different.

And yet for some reason I feel really quite sad today. I am missing him even though a lot of the time life with him was such hard work and even though i know he is not in the least bit sorry.

I told a few friends he had been verbally abusing me and then immediately felt so guilty I couldn't stop crying.

today he posted the image from thsi site on his blog (I know I shouldn't look but it helps remind me he is often not very nice)
jenniferchilds.typepad.com/my_weblog/2009/03/the-hormone-guide.html with the message 'now I know where I have been going wrong'

cos that is right of course, it is my hormones that made me object to him saying 'don't you dare cook me this sh*t ever again' and not the fact that it is just plain rude. In his head I am sure that sounded like "What's for dinner".

TisILeclerc · 05/02/2013 16:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

arthriticfingers · 05/02/2013 16:17

Silver Grin Grin Grin

NiniLegsInTheAir · 05/02/2013 20:12

Hi ladies. Hoping some of you might still remember me Blush.

Apologies for a long absence, things have gone very dark and I'm feeling a bit lost. FW-spaghetti head style. I've skim read recent posts and will go back to read the thread properly as there's a few names now I don't recognise.

When I last posted FW had just accepted a new job closer to home - the argument I was predicting r.e. the car happened just as I said it would. I managed to persuade him that despite the obvious cost, having a second car would be beneficial as our runaround wouldn't cope with the daily commute but would be fine for the days I need it. This worked well, I think he likes the idea of how having both a new and second family car will look to other people. On the downside he starts his job in just over a week but can't find 'the' car. I've been firm and told him if he doesn't find a car in time he needs to get the train until he does, but that caused another argument and I know he'll only take the current car if he wants to regardless of how it causes problems for me.

His little niggles, comments, behaviours etc are now firmly back to what they were pre-couples counselling. Last weekend, for example, we had my sister and her boyfriend over to stay. FW decided he wanted to go look at a car and persuaded her bf to go along too, then as they went mentioned they 'might go for a swift pint afterwards'. Leaving sister and me to entertain DD. 4 hours later we get a phonecall saying they were staying in the pub to watch the football and would bring back dinner later (not asking what we wanted). My sister was furious as I'd earlier suggested that she and me go out for a change that evening and she'd said no as she wanted this to be a weekend 'for us all'. She told me how she feels FW doesn't like her, which is true. Sad

2 hours after that they rang us (drunk) to ask us what takeaway we wanted. They both arrived with more booze, sister and me were grumpy with our respective partners. Her bf (who is lovely but easily-led) apologised profusely to her, sorted out her dinner for her and had brought her home a drink. My FW, on the other hand, when he saw I was annoyed, left my dinner in the kitchen, took his upstairs, ate it and went to bed without another word. When I asked him if he was coming down he said no 'due to my behaviour' and that he 'wants a divorce'. Sad I spent the rest of the evening crying in the kitchen, trying to be quiet so sis and bf didn't hear me.

Of course, the next day he was attentive (but without an apology) and has been 'good' since, which means nothing.

He's been out a lot recently, burning money on booze while I'm still sat in debt. There is no way out for me. My free sessions with my counsellor at work have now finished so there's no support anymore. But he's not been physically aggressive for a while so that is a bonus.

That was a mammoth post, sorry. Will catch up on things later.

TisILeclerc · 05/02/2013 20:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

foolonthehill · 05/02/2013 20:34

nini, there is legal aid until April, after that it's gone...worth thinking about??

OP posts:
NiniLegsInTheAir · 05/02/2013 21:05

Hi Leclerc Smile. I'm so in awe of the way you parent, you're such an inspiration despite the odds. Would be interested to know how you get on with that book, I've considered buying it myself.

Fool, I have thought about legal aid, but not sure I'm entitled to anything (my wages are pretty good, I just have high outgoings). Was thinking about approaching a local solicitor for the free half hour thing, but havn't had the guts to do it. So many other 'buts' in the way.

Since we have a penalty clause if we sell our house before the fixed rate ends at the end of the year, I've been searching for our full contract. Can't find it, which means I need to ask FW.

TheSilveryPussycat · 05/02/2013 21:08

maybe it is time to stop hiding your crying from your sister...[tender hug]

NiniLegsInTheAir · 05/02/2013 21:17

Probably, Silver, just lacking in guts to do it in front of her. Afraid to tell her in case it comes spilling it, that night was the first time I've ever heard her say bad things about him so was a bit of a shock. Sad

And well done on getting acquaintanced with a 'friend'. Hope you're enjoying yourself Wink

BreatheandFlyAway · 05/02/2013 21:22

Hi lovely ones

Apart from flat falling through due to financial reasons, fw had got into kids' heads and I couldn't see my way to extracting them without moving back in and reclaiming them IYSWIM. However, court case, lawyers, mediator and other stuff punctuating the next couple of weeks, giving me assurance I am not slipping back.

But subconsciously I felt terrible desperate despair at going back in even though it was strategic. Letting the flat go, despite the perfectly reasonable financial reasons, felt like signing my death warrant in some way as I know you'll all understand. Anyway, I have been ballsy and tough - very unlike me - and split house totally so I'm upstairs and he is very grumpily and martyrishly downstairs.

But more importantly, today I saw my new place. It's available end March, it's cheaper, much nicer, near my work, kids saw it and liked it. I am phoning tomorrow to negotiate and then put down firm deposit and that is that. Meanwhile have to sell our old place (I mean not current home but old home) (currently rented out) to clear massive debts. So plan is in place again and old place (the one to be sold) is on market and I am going to get a dog as soon as we move because kids and I have longed for one for ages and the fw has always pissed on our dreams.

Sorry for non engagement with others - I have been through horrible horrible times this week. Thank you so much for support. xxxxxxxxx

NiniLegsInTheAir · 05/02/2013 21:32

Hi Try, sorry to hear about your flat but glad the plan is back in place with your new one. Stay strong lovely xx

betterthanever · 05/02/2013 21:40

breathe no wonder you feel exhausted but you sound positive !! I am glad your court case etc. gives you assurance you are not slipping back - mine has the opposite effect - I feel he is pulling me back in. I should see it as you do and a step away from him for good, I suppose we did have unresolved business.
MrsM the text me more thing sounds like gas lighting - my ex said that - when I did it (he was working away at the time) he shouted at me that I was trying to make him give up his job (I worked). His was about me not saying I missed him enough - it was early in the relationship and felt strange but I didn't understand it then... it was a red flag I never saw.

betterthanever · 05/02/2013 21:42

nini could you not ring the bank about the contract? they may be able to offer you other advice at the same time.

TisILeclerc · 05/02/2013 21:44

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NiniLegsInTheAir · 05/02/2013 21:59

Hi better. Yes I think I will ring the bank, would be easier. Something to do tomorrow! Smile

I can see what you mean about needing to see FW blow his cover Leclerc, these guys really have no idea of the damage they cause do they? Despite his shocking behaviour towards your DCs, it sounds fairly positive that you're getting towards the end point. Being happy is good! Smile

Must go, he's coming up to bed now.