tomorrow I hand over my children to the OW for the first time

[chocoreturns]

I don't know what else to say, just need a hand hold tonight.

OW and STBXH are now house hunting 15 mins from my house, and spending EOW with my baby and DS. They have been lying about her being there right up until today. I finally reached the end of my tether, while listening to DS1 tell me all about house hunting with OW all day, having been told he was with only his dad and granny.

So I called STBXH and told him I'm over it, it's time to stop pretending I'm an ogre who can't bear to meet her, and to bring her to handover. If she's going to be on my doorstep and having my children in her home, I need to know who she is. She took my baby DS2 swimming with his dad today - it was his first swim. I am far beyond anger now and I'm just sad about it all :(

Not sure what to say to her, but I would like to take her to one side when STBXH is putting the kids in the car, and say look - I know you and I aren't going to be friends, but my children are my priority, and I need to know they are safe and happy when they're not with me. If you ever don't know what to do, or you're on your own with them and you think they need me, please know that it's ok to call me and I'll be fine with you. Then give her my number.

Is that mad? Or sensible and mature?

This is a moment I need a mumsnet straw poll :(

Well done choco. What lucky little boys you have to be exposed to your grace and dignity.

Bloody hell Choco you are amazing.

Hold your head up high, you did really well.

For the future you need to teach DS1 a song which includes the words 'When you get promoted from mistress to partner, you create a vacancy'

Someone cleverer than me will find a catchy addictive tune to set it too. Make sure he sings it a lot at home, so it becomes a habit.

When my ExH left me for the OW he denied there was anyone else. Our DD was 8, so he didn't dare let her meet her.

When I found out for sure, I knew all along but needed hard evidence, he decided that they should meet. I fought it for a while, as I had legal aid and he didn't. Then I insisted I had to meet her first. We had an interesting phone conversation where she asked me why I had to meet her first I said 'If you were a mother you would understand', she repied 'Thats where you lucky and I'm not C* doesn't want any more children and I do', She got short shrift from me 'Well you only have yourself to blame for that, if you had chosen a single man who didn't already have kids you might have had a chance, but you chose a family man who has children, so don't expect sympathy from me'.

The meeting didn't go too well either, but I did decide she would not actually cause my DD harm.

Well done Chocco.

Please, please don't send a text or email to her to ask how the DCs are doing.

She would laugh at you and slap you in the face, figuratively speaking, because she would see communication along those lines from you as weakness on your part, an indication that she had you where she wanted you, and would play games with you like not replying, or giving you some generic 'All's well' that would convey nothing to you.

You know how things are going when one child was returned early with wet trousers because there were no spares -- this weekend has been planned in advance and neither one of them thought of spare clothes for baby and small child? Things are going to go badly.

The step dad possibly knows something and you need to contact him but again, play your cards close to your chest.

I want to say that what you said was brilliant and imo better than the high road you had in mind..

I foresee a rude awakening for this woman, though she doesn't sound like the sort to thank you for the warning.

I agree that you shouldn't contact her again. Let her contact you. I think she would screw with your head with any replies because twunt will have convinced her you have some twisted reason for contacting her. What did step dad say later about being "shell shocked"?

I agree, don't contact her

I won't contact her, agreed.

I haven't spoken to his step dad as there was no opportunity last night but he was very, very quiet when he dropped in DS1. My mum talked to me about it last night and said sometimes it's worth calling to know, other times just best to let it lie. I've said my piece and I don't think it was hysterical or unfair so I don't really need to know how they took it. My MIL and step-FIL are his family not mine, so if they want to speak to me about it they can, but otherwise I think I should leave them all to process how they feel the meeting went.

My SIL did email to say how super she thinks I am and how proud of me she is though, so I sent back a chatty reply along the lines of I'm proud of me too, and now I feel I can be civil in the future knowing they are both in no doubt of how contemptible I really find them, so it won't feel fake - it will genuinely be 'for the children'. I know she understands, and if there is anything that she thinks I need a heads up about she would let me know.

I am trying to reach a new level of detaching :)

And Midwife, for the record, yes, she's slightly smaller, slightly younger, slightly plainer than me, and brunette. She looks enough like me for my neice to accidentally call her my name lol. So when she's had her own kids and is slightly fatter, slightly older and slightly greyer she should know exactly what her fate will be!

I've not posted on one of your threads since way back when it all first happened, but choco I had to say that I think you handled that fantastically well.

I really hope the hand-overs get a little easier for you quickly, although I'm sure you will always worry and wonder. It's good that your SIL is so nice - long may that continue, and hopefully it will be a huge great thorn in the OW side too.

I don't have any "help" as such, but I am in awe of how well you are handling this.

I'd like to think that's how I would handle it, but I would get nowhere near, as I have nothing like your level of common sense and dignity.

I'm still in the post-adrenaline state where you have rehearsal conversations in your own head about what you shoulda coulda said. I hope that this passes quickly. I'll give it a few days but then I really need to let it go.

Interestingly, my best friend who is a SM told me she would have been LIVID if she'd been OW, and her DP had thrown her to the wolves like that and not said a word. (She wasn't OW ever, but has four older step kids so plenty of experience of meeting the ex).

If he had any kind of decency he should have defended her, apologised himself and stepped in when I told her I expected an apology from her right there and then, but he didn't. He left her totally exposed. Here's hoping they had a pretty frosty drive home in the car!

I'm not sure she's able to see through that though, given she knows 'what kind of man he is'.

Hello Choco

I have dipped in and out of you threads - and I think you have posted on a couple I have been on - but I just wanted to say very well done on handling things and also to empathise with how shitty it is to have to do so, particularly with your DS1 being so very very young. When my exH left the first time my son (then 2) had to stay over with him I remember hearing this odd animal sound (I live in Australia and have lots of wildlife around me so not so strange) but then realised it was coming from me when he drove off. Very primal.

The first time DS met OW (despite assurances to contrary) I didn't know and was not told till they returned from 10 hour return weekend trip. I'm not sure if it was worse not knowing or knowing and stressing. It is a couple of years later now and OW and her son (at least she is a parent) have moved to our City and it is still hard as I am not 'permitted' to meet her (I think she has been sold the crazy vengeful wife story) and yet I am emailed lectures from exH about 'in this family' (ie theirs of which DS is in situ every other weekend we do this') and OW thinks we should do this and do that. It gets easier but it is very hard.

Intellectually I am glad that my DS seems (from what he said) to have a nice relationship with her and of course given where we are, the more people that love him the better etc etc. Much better than being with someone horrid to him BUT...and a big BUT. I think unless it has happened to you, the horror of being forced into being a part time parent and not with your child 100% of the time (unless by choice) is a brutal one and something that I still find exceptionally hard to deal with. The fact that I cannot in the crucial early years be 'in charge' of how I want my DS to be bought up (exH won't go to family counselling will parent as he sees fit - nothing dreadful but tons of TV, DS has own iphone etc etc and watches movies in cars if they go 10 seconds to the shops and eats a lot of what I consider crap - I know nothing to complain about in the whole scheme of things as exH is a loving father but still) is a hard pill to swallow and whilst I seek to make the best of things I think it sucks.

Anyway. huge love and hope you continue to feel positive once the adrenelin subsides. I would agree with other posters though about not calling/texting unless you have a specific concern that can't be sorted out with exH. She doesn't sound like she 'gets' it so will no doubt miscontrue.

xxx

hi Dolly :) thank you for your post. It resonates so much with me. I'm sorry you've been through it all too and I remember your threads too. It is horrific, and I still struggle when people suggest I will appreciate my 'child free time' because I still feel that I never, ever wanted to be a part time parent in any way. And it's not the same as when couple parents get babysitters. Because you instruct a babysitter on how to look after your child - you don't pop them in a car and say cheerio, do what you fancy for x hours, and don't feel the need to tell me anything about it! I'll figure it out from the state of his nappy and how his hair smells. Cheers.

But I'm glad to hear it does get easier. Thank you x

Hey Choco

I SO get what you mean. I have to really bite my tongue when well meaning friends exhort me to enjoy my free time and profess jealousy as if every other w/end free to take up a 'hobby' outweighs the pain of not being with your own child when the split wasn't your choice or one that you saw coming (my ex left not whilst I was pregnant but during IVF..nice..).

And down the line, whilst it DOES get easier I promise you my love, it is so 'normalised' for everyone else that they really don't see the big deal. And I often want to shout how would YOU feel at people who are talking up the perceived positives. Don't get me wrong, I don't sit around rocking and staring at the wall but I would MUCH rather have my DS with me all the time as I had planned.

Anyway, this year I am trying to put in lots of nice things (my situation complicated by being abroad and no long standing friends/family) - weekends away, drinks with friends etc, and my DS seems pretty happy so onwards and upwards my love but I just wanted you to know - as you have seen from your threads - that I TOTALLY get how you feel - actually I don't as your DS is littler than mine, but you have my admiration and support for simply bearing it all let alone IMO 'owning' the OW meet. I would concur with you that your exH perhaps showed her a glimpse of the future when he isn't in her corner anymore.

XX

ooh i meant to say that as you will have seen from lots of people from your thread that I am another one who totally gets it...not having tickets on myself as being unique given the wonderful support you have had!!

Chocco I don't know if you remember me. But I had no idea you were going through all this at all. ((((hugs))))

Choco and dolly, I had to come back on to comment about the awfulness of this enforced time away from your children and as you put it choco cheerio do what you fancy for x hours, and don't feel the need to tell me anything about it! I'll figure it out from the state of his nappy and how his hair smells'.

Thats the awfulness of it.

Dolly, I still do the primal keening sometimes when they leave. But I've learned how to pick myself up and get on. But boy, it hurts like hell.

choco, I agree with not engaging via text with OW. Dont put your ball in her court so to speak. And yy to MammaTJ's suggestion about a song

I have been guilty at times of glibly saying to bereft mums "think of what you can do with your child free time"

After reading this thread, I will not say it again.

Choco, as per usual, you rock.

choco, you have done brilliantly and have been very dignified throughout. I think you did well to be able to reply to her so quickly when she said it was tricky for her!
And you know what? I think in years to come, she may very well wish that she had listened to you telling her what kind of man he was!

Read all through this, remembering your earlier threads and blog. As ever you handled this brilliantly. How you can stay so outwardly calm when dealing with this pair is awesome.

I still struggle when people suggest I will appreciate my 'child free time' because I still feel that I never, ever wanted to be a part time parent in any way.

Yes, exactly. It hurts like hell when people say that. I've had people say "ooh, you can go out with your friends and party and get drunk". Um no, I can't because my friends are all happily married with small children, or pregnant (in short, living the life I wanted) and not available to behave like teenagers and go out and get pissed! And I don't want to anyway, I'm happy to stay at home with my boy safely tucked up in his bed upstairs.

I do go out on my child-free weekends. Even though my friends aren't exactly up for clubbing, they can be persuaded out for cinema trips or dinner! But coming home to an empty house kills me. It's not what I chose for myself, at all.

Anyway, choco, I think you are amazing! Totally dignified and strong. You handled it all perfectly, I think. You are a fantastic mother, putting your DS's first all the time. I can't believe they returned your older DS because he had wet trousers . Was it really beyond their combined intellect to either a) take spares or b) pop to a shop and buy him a pair of trousers?

Re keeping lines of communication open, I think it's VITAL to keep communication going between you and your ex. I have a weekly phone call with exP to discuss DS. I hate doing it, I'd really rather not talk to him at all but I think it's important, for DS, that we maintain some kind of relationship, albeit frosty and akward. However, the communication I have is with exP as he is DS's parent. I don't speak to OW and I won't. As far as I'm concerned, if she has to be there when DS sees his dad, then I can't prevent it but she's not his parent and is not responsible for him.

Respect, choco. Respect

Its been sobering reading the last couple of pages and I have been guilty of saying how good it is to have child free time...

I have a friend whose ex was such a useless specimen that after he left her with four dcs including a young baby, he said he couldn't take all of them together for contact because he couldn't cope. He didn't take the baby at all.