would you date a transgendered man?

[ecofreeek]

I am in my late 30's and single (divorced). Recently though work I met a man who seemed really nice. We flirted a bit and last weekend he asked me out for a drink. It went really well, nice snog! and we arranged to meet for dinner this week

At dinner he told me that basically he used to be a woman. He has had testosterone treatment for many years and both breasts removed and a hysterectomy. But not the surgery that makes a penis...

I really like him. But I'm a bit freaked out. I guess that's why he told me 'early' in our dating... I dont want any more children s thats not an issue... its the whole man thing - he looks like a man, acts like a man and I would never have guessed that biologically he is not a male...

the sex thing ....

would you date a transgendered man >?

Why do I always get a sneaking feeling that many of the people on threads like this have never knowingly met a transgendered person? Or, for that matter, a lesbian or a gay man.....

Becuase it's easy to make assumptions and they require a lot less effort than taking on peoples' points ?

I lived in Thailand for years. I know the sex industry gets all the attention, but even 20 years ago there was a mainstream presence of transgendered people (working in Shops, offices, service industry, colleagues, my students) that I haven't seen replicated over here in Europe even today. Not saying it was a hotbed of happy tolerance, but there was a very different landscape to here.

I think it is not as easy to work put individual posters' motivations and background as some people think it is, but still the "ignorance" lable is bandied about as an automatic prize for not sticking to a "straight out the box, prisine condition" opinion perscribed as "the right one".

And yes, it is all very well saying "oh but I didn't mean those posters" were "ignorant", but until humans come pre packaged with a mind reading gene, how the hell are they supposed to know they aren't the intended target ?

That's what I meant about importing the scattergun approach from the radicalissimo fringes of the debate. It adds to the heat, but not to the debate.

Hully I must admit I did wonder why/how you were so heavily involved in tuther thread and yet stayed off this one! Then again, I have done the same in reverse - after posting several times on this thread I have been reading the other one, but not posting, as frankly, it's exhausting stuff and I too feel a little transgendered out! They are both threads that involve reading carefully then thinking long and hard about what you feel and why you feel it, and I can only work my brain so hard in one week.

I hardly think that expressing shock at the ignorance of some people makes me a 'radicalissimo' (whatever that is).

Absolutely, Fell. And then there's the demn work to be done...

I hardly think that expressing shock at the ignorance of some people makes me a 'radicalissimo' (whatever that is)

Radicalissimo is my own personal lable for the more extreme edges of the radical fringe. I take your point that going around inventing words is perhaps not the best way of increacing two way communication.

I didn't say YOU were radical, I was pointing out that the scattergun insult/put down approch is not exactly unused at the edges of the debate. And since that bunfight has been going on for decades with no real end in sight, perhaps those of us under the "moderate" unbrealla might want to consider a more nauanced approach and see if that gets better results. Especially in terms of practical solutions and compromises that help reduce discrimination against people WITHOUT accidently stomping on another group of people who also suffer from discrimination.

So, lets get it clear. If I accept that a woman born with normally developed woman's body can undergo gender changing surgery / hormones etc to become a man is then able to identify themselves as a man and be treated legally& socially as a man but I still think that sexually they are a woman (& thus a lesbian if they go on to date women) and could never be 100% man as they are still genetically a woman, does that mean I am ignorant or that I have a different opinion to the people who believe that they would actually be a man 100%

define "sexually" and "genetically"

Gentically - they would still have XX chromosomes
Sexually - they would be in every way like a man until, to put it bluntly, you looked in their pants.

Step away from the thread Hully.

I did think that mentions of female mutilated body, not having "bothered" to complete the transformation, and transgender as lesbians, were sadly ignorant.

Not lesbian, and boringly heterosexual, BTW.

Of course it's ok not to want to have a romantic relationship, or sex with a transgender person, particularly pre-op. In the same way that I might not be attracted to obese men.

Genetically, the main difference between a man and a woman is a little chromosome, with hardly more than a small gene.

The differences between female and male bodies, even at the time of development, are mainly due to the presence of testosterone.

As with most biological systems, human sexuality and gender identity are hardly black and white and there is a rich diversity, that we must acknowledge and respect.

Just pretend that my name is on Lueji's last 2 posts.

As with most biological systems, human sexuality and gender identity are hardly black and white and there is a rich diversity, that we must acknowledge and respect

Is this about sexuality? or gender identity? I was getting the impression from some here that it isn't about sexuality?

How is 'gender' a biological system?

If it were, we wouldn't need a word for 'sex'.

If I step back too, we'll look as if we're performing the hokey-cokey. Excellent.

Is this about sexuality? or gender identity? I was getting the impression from some here that it isn't about sexuality?

I mentioned both because they were mentioned (and confused) by some posters.

Gender identity is a biological system, in that it is determined by the brain.

There is a whole spectrum from very feminine women to very butch men. (me being somewhere towards the centre of the feminine spectrum probably, for example)

Lueji, there is no evidence for that. Gender is a social construct.

Are you crying Hully or was that an extended hiccup ?