Support thread for those in Emotionally abusive relationships :15

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I don't like how I am when he's with me. I feel I either need to massage his ego or walk on eggshells or I'm stressed and I get shouty too. And I hate myself for all of it. I'm not that young anymore. When I was young, I was in a relationship that had PA, and when I got out, it was years and years of stalking and threats and harassment and court orders and everything. Finally free of that, and swore I'd never allow myself to be in that position again and this just seems to sneak up on me.

I think part of it is his depression. It's like a built in excuse to treat us badly. "You just don't understand depression. You don't care." He's had a lot of things to deal with in the last couple years, but so have I. With first H, he was just a FW. I mean seriously, no MH issues. Just a FW. But the depression thing has thrown me.

I've told my GP, who recommended I make a long appointment with another GP in the practice that deals with this type of thing. I'm scared to set the ball rolling. Once H knows, it's going to get ugly fast. Because of DC's ages and one having SNs, just getting up and walking out with them in a moment is just not possible.

Yes, on one level I really do understand and agree with everything you're saying. I think I'm just scared to get it all started. If I could have a few hours clear each day over the next week to organise and think clearly, I could get things sorted and just do it. Impossible at the moment as he's home all the time.

I was depressed.

No-one expected me to live, not my psychologist, not the psychiatrist, doctor, NOBODY.

I tried suicide.

I say this to show you that I was as low and as dark as you can get, that it was out of control and downward spiralling.

not ONCE did I abuse anyone, not once did I think to piss on anyone elses day. Happy people made me see that there WAS hope.

Your H is not 'depressed' he is depressING. He needs to know that a depressed person is hard to live with, but it IS manageable. Does he even pretend to take his meds?

A mean person is hard to live with, until they choose to be nice again.

A person choosing to be mean, and using his 'illness' to make everyone around him quake in fear is NOT one that you stay with. Tell him that he can 'be depressed' if he wants to be, and you might be able to stick with him, but that if he is mean, you will leave him ANYWAY.

He has 2 strikes atm, one more, ie knowing he's being an arse and refusing not to be one, is the 3rd... and then he's OUT.

Get tough. He's bullshitting.

Mine was home all the time - for the last 3 years of our marriage supposedly working (ebay) and before that just being there not doing much! Hence I ended up staying awake into late hours to get some time when just me (and DCat) were conscious. So I know what you mean, it was hard even to think properly with him around.

The way abusers behave is to deliberately disturb the air, the environment, the soul, so that everything is shrouded in FOG.

this is one of the reasons it's so hard to get out, because we literally can't think straight.

That's another thing that comes back really fast when you leave them.

I lived abroad for 3 years, isolated and alone with him and a child, in Hell on Earth.

Only when I came back to the UK before him, and I found MN did things start to get clear.

Distance ladies. With distance comes clarity. With clarity comes Hope. Hope brings strength and strength brings freedom.

tinsel - yes exactly. It's like constant overload. I am seeing myself struggling more and more with it lately. I guess it's that denial that it's not PA so it can't be that bad. but it is.

hissy - thank you. I did wonder about this. IMO if he's only dreadful to us at home, not in front of others, then it can't be the depression, as he'd be that all the time with everyone. Although it did start about the same time the depression did, but to me that still implies that he has it under control.

thank you. I think I'm just having a huge wobble right now and really struggling. I just don't feel like myself anymore and am feeling quite lost and alone, which is hard to get past.

twelve I wouldn't even waste any more time in thinking about his depression. It would be no excuse, even if it was true. I knew my ex FW had mental health issues but had no real idea of the true nature or extent (or incurability) of them. And now when I look back, I wonder why I didn't bail out so much sooner, but that mental health excuse thing was part of why I stayed.

"I will try to fix you" is a load of crap. ;o)

Also, like you, I sometimes wondered if it wasn't me being 'over sensitive'. But now I know that is how these men operate - they create self-doubt and try and make you feel pity for them, and basically he is using classic tactics. Nothing is your fault. Nothing is your over-sensitivity.

Trust your gut instinct.

Did anyone reach a point where they just feel real rage at the whole situation ? I seem lately to go back and forth between complete hopelessness and utter rage (admittedly divided between at myself and at him).

I can't do anything until I can speak to a solicitor regarding supervised contact for the children for their own safety. And he needs to leave the house for awhile, preferably for work. Otherwise he will come with me when I leave the house. I can only do that when the dc's are in school.

Here is an example of losing oneself , ☹ , , (all at the same time).
I loved reading. Reading was an absolutely huge part of my life.
Over 30 years FW never asked and never had any idea of what I actually read - none.
Over the years he started more and more to 'talk' to me if I was reading particularly in the evening when I had cooked, washed up, fed, bathed and put the children to bed ... you get the idea.
FW would 'read' bits of his paper out loud to me.
If I asked him if I could read for a bit, he would act hurt and become huffy - only to start again a few minutes later.
If I ever (and this was very, very rare) challenged him or asked to talk about something that made me unhappy, he would say that I was just ?parroting? what I had read in 'those books of yours'
I don?t know what books he thought he was referring to ? actually, I think he believed he did not need to ?support? any put down of me.
Gradually, I stopped reading (at least when he was around) ☹; it was just not worth the hassle.
No, I don?t know why I did not just tell him to get stuffed ? it is as if that option had gradually been removed.
Reading is slowly coming back ☺ and I am actually working on NOT telling everyone who crosses me, even slightly, to get stuffed (I?ll get it right in the end)
One amusing aspect of this story is that, I gradually read more and more rubbish (easier to read through FWittery). I read a lot of Lee Child?s Reacher novels. For those whose cup of tea these are not, the plot of each and every one of these ?hardboiled thrillers? is: Reacher gets somewhere. There are baddies. Reacher beats the shit out of the baddies (killing several with his bare hands). Reacher moves on.
Now, had I really been getting my idea from ?those books? I read ?

doing he will come with me when I leave the house?
Don't like the sound of that at all.
Please phone WA and talk a plan through with them.

Not nearly as ominous as it sounds, I don't think. It's just he doesn't drive, so when he wants to go somewhere I end up being taxi. So when I go somewhere he ends up going as well most of the time. Sometimes it's simply because I cannot leave him alone with the children (and I've told him this), so if the children are home and I have to go somewhere, they ALL have to come along.

I do occasionally get out myself, when he is working (short hours in the morning, home well before lunch) and the children are in school. But I have to plan carefully so he's not alone with the children or I'm not missing school runs. It only leaves me a very small window tbh.

It sounds worse than it is, I suppose. he's not standing over me demanding to go everywhere I go. A lot of it is that I just don't go out much now - too much hassle.

I enjoy reading as well. Thank god for the kindle - so I can read a few of these books without being seen to be reading them. It does make life a bit easier in that regard.

Hissy all your posts are just spot on - I am nodding too, this line in particular really sums it up for me. My ex even managed to do this after all those years in court I often wonder just how he can do it so easily. It was also felt by my friend who was with me The way abusers behave is to deliberately disturb the air, the environment, the soul, so that everything is shrouded in FOG.
At least it being felt by someone else too did help me not think it was just me being paraniod.
twelve you must be exhausted by it all day long. I think you said you had told one friend about things, I think it would help to tell more, they will help you. I hid so much my friends were astounded when it all came out as I am usually so open too open sometimes .

twelve I was so ill after he left, as I relaxed. I felt ill for a few days after I was in court as it had taken so much out of me. But during the really terrible times I had not even noticed what it was taking out of me. I am thankful that I have managed to notice how I feel more. I love to read too in fact I am going to make sure I do tonight and think of you and hope you are finding some time to relax.

Some great advice and guidance coming through on here today ladies, thank you, keeps us all going.

Twelve please don't think that because you don't have PA that your situation is any less than the rest of us, there is no judgement on this thread and we are all equal regardless of the level of FWerty we experience. To be honest, I think the EA/FA head f**k stuff I experience is 10times worse than the PA/SA I experience here. I would rather have bruises and my stuff smashed up than some of the cruel cruel games he plays with my head. Sad but true . Sounds like you will need to do the long term planning like I have to to get out-i do this by staying up late and then doing my bits once he is snoring. Re appts, I have to use excuses like going to the dentist and then do a detour to solicitors etc. We will get there in the end.

In other news...FWs lies are getting more and more shite by the day. This afternoon in his work break he made such a fuss about needing a couple of hours sleep and basically shoved me and DC out the door. I just drove them to the shops but it was freezing so after an hour I got home, sneaked in so not to wake FW. After half an hour or so I went up to get something for DC-no sign of him! The bastard hadn't even been in bed, was probably out the door straight after us. Fast forward another hour, in he comes not a care in the world, I asked where he had been, now considering he stunk of beer this next lie is simply an insult to my intelligence. He told me he had been to xxxx town (30miles away) to see a man about buying a mountain bike-WHAT??? FW is a fatty, and its snowing, what on earth does he want to buy a bike for? Me thinks the man selling the bike was called Billy Bullshit. Its just so pathetic, he doesn't even tell good lies! So he basically shoved me and DC out to drive in the dangerous ice/snow so he could go and have a few pints. Arsehole. He has gone off to work again now (yes with drink in him) and has told me he will be finishing early so to keep DD up. I agreed, in reality she will be going to bed normal time as everytime I keep her up he doesn't show and I then have an upset 3 year old refusing to sleep and a FW that rolls in at 3am not giving a shit. Grrrrr!!

Ps-Fly how are you and those lovely DC of yours doing? Hope you are all ok and happy and cosy in temp flat. Thinking of you x

Indeed leclerc, always worse, never not as bad as it sounds and how would we even know how bad it sounded when we never told a soul.

you've all given me a lot to think about. thanks. I think the rollercoaster of ups and downs, good behaviour inevitably followed by bad, that keeps me off balance to some extent. I will talk to my other friend this week sometime, if I can, and try to get in to solicitor and other GP soon as well. sorry for the wobble. not sure what is going on in my brain anymore

Fly - hope you're doing well!

As Hissy will tell you doing apologies for ourselves are not allowed here :)

So much good advice on the thread today. :)

twelve - no apologies! We've all done it, well I certainly have, very recently, the "my situation's nothing compared to theirs". Whenever I speak to my dm about stuff that's happened (little insignificant-sounding stuff like him saying he takes our wedding vows seriously), her reaction (she called this deeply offensive, implying that I don't) makes me realise anew that this is so not normal.

Just wanted to add that you're worried about the reaction of him and his family, but in truth that will be less significant than their good opinion is now. Once out, you'll be able to control how much contact you accept from them, whereas now you're powerless to keep them away, iyswim.

No idea how my in-laws are going to take it. I sometimes thought I was marrying FW for his family - it would be a shame to damage those relationships. (A shame, but not a reason to stay. )