"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's January 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see <a class="break-all" href="http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/440839-but-we-took-you-to-stately-homes-a-thread-for" target="_blank">original thread here</a> (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parents? behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn?t have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

Follow up to pages first thread:

I?m sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don?t claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

I have cut and pasted this because I think it is fab. Just in case anyone misses the link.

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

Arrrrgggghhh had the phonecall to my landline, dh answered and it was mil wishing me happy birthday, with yet more ill intentions it seems.
Dh said mil sounded down & dreary, not to mention miserable.
Why fucking phone him to wish me a happy birthday when she doesn't actually mean it!!!
She also happened to mention why dhs phone has stopped working, he lied and said its playing up

Dh is now miserable for my birthday too, thanks for ruining my birthday you toxic mil from hell. I'm guessing more was said than ive been told about and to top it of sil has now just emailed him.

That family ruin every celebration thay isn't about them, i don't know why today would be different.
Same every year, they have ruined two of my dcs homecomings when born, my last birthday, my mothers birthdy, my 2yo birthday, mothers day, fathers day, christmas to a certain degree and my birthday.
Thats it ive had enough, i'm buying the toxic inlaws book tonight!

pumpkin it seems a theme, as my mother ruins every family occasion too. It becomes all about her, she has to be begged to attend and if she's not then my God you know about it. It's DS's 16th next month and no way is she coming anywhere near us.
It was DD's 18th last year, and she went on and on about not wanting to go as exH would be there, how she wouldn't be civil to him etc...then she spent the evening sucking up to him, cuddling him and announcing loudly (in front of DP) that she misses exH!

Oh, and Happy Birthday

Thankyou Newpatches, these toxics are all self self self!

Hi, can I join you all?

As a child, I felt that my parents were somehow 'different' to other parents. Not as easy going, very easily annoyed, not as loving, strange attitudes. I have a younger sister who was the golden child and was very much favoured, and I was just in the way. My father worked long hours in London so I rarely saw him. He didn't have a brilliant upbringing himself and was cold towards me, and lost his temper very easily. My mother was very up and down with her mood swings; one day she'd be 'normal' with me, the next screaming and shouting at me and saying she wished I was dead. She also has/had a knack of making herself into the victim. I remember once she was drying her hair and I (was about 7 or 8 at the time) walked into her room and tripped over her hairdryer lead, and the plug came out of the socket, and she started screaming and crying hysterically. It was a complete accident yet of course then my father came running up the stairs to see what wrongdoing I'd done now, and then smacked me.

They also both used to sulk with me, for perceived wrongdoings, for days, sometimes weeks on end. They got so easily offended, and both seem to have a persecution complex. They'd say all the time I was in a bad mood, when I wasn't, and then sulk with me. Even now, in their sixties, they are convinced everyone is out to get them, and have complete feuds with people, even us if they perceive that we've wronged them in any way. And it's all always been done so passive aggressively; there's no open and honest talking, just sulking, my mum screaming and crying hysterically, them blanking us and saying things to the children. At the moment they are in a bad mood with us as we chose to spend Xmas at home with our children, and this led to a massive scene my mother created at my house the day before xmas eve. There is also no laughing or joking with my mother; once I made a joke about a haircut I had as a child and she went beserk at me.

I've been having therapy for some years, having had very very low self worth and thinking I was awful, as my parents constantly told me how horrible I was and how evil, nasty etc. And I now know it wasn't me with the problem, it was them. Now I have DCs, my mum seems to delight in treating them in a similar way, but then at the same time undermining me. She is not interested in anything about the kids that I tell her, only her experiences with them. I think when she has the kids she pretends I don't exist.

I hope it's ok if I keep popping onto this thread as I remember various things from my childhood, as it's just too much to write down in one go

CanIring...pop in as much as you want...you will see all of us doing that, we'll post something and then 'oh and another thing' as we remember other stuff.

My mother always has and still does the ignoring thing. I can distinctly remember being sat at the kitchen table while she dished up dinner and her saying 'newpatches, tell your father his dinner's ready'...he would be sitting there next to me. He was an enabler though, and would just say to me 'newpatches, could you tell your mother thankyou very much' and this would go on for days, sometimes weeks. He would deal with it in a passive sort of way (which I now realise was him being an enabler) but she would be absolutely venomous. Then the ignoring would be heaped on one of us...it was always one in favour, 2 out of favour. The one in favour (usually my brother) would be treated like royalty and the other 2 would be treated like dirt, and ignored for ages. Now my dad isn't around anymore it's worse, because she doesn't have him to ignore.

She also tries to inflict the same behaviour on my DCs, but unlike me they have great self confidence and won't stand for it. My youngest is only 8, and as a result she will not get close to my mother. In fact she clings to me whenever she is here. Then of course my mother will make comments about 'what is wrong with that child, she's very stand offish'...she's not, only with her.

You've come to the right place, we all understand here!

My mother has made me so angry I can barely type. She keeps telling me you can't change people (er, you can change how you react to them and your expectations of whether they change themselves) and has told me that at least I was out of the house lots when I was a teenager. I asked if she ever considered she kept the wrong person out of the house.

She said some other bloody selfish things to me, this was yesterday, still shaking with anger and sorrow and I don't know what.

Jess, I do know that feeling of being so angry, in my case at least it's a lot to do with the injustice, the frustration, the inability to make myself heard. What a shitty thing to say to you. Has she ever questioned why you were out of the house so much?

My mother distorts the past so much. For instance, she says none of her children left home till they got married so we must have been happy...my sister left when she was 14! She went to live with her best friends family.

Luckily (or unluckily) I have a fantastic memory.

I'm sorry you feel bad Jess.

Oh jessjess i think my dh feels like that sometimes!
These toxics don't have any opinion other than their own, and if you try to tell them something different they will just get on the defensive of them being right and you being wrong

It must get tiring, i'm tired of toxics and i'm just the dil.
It wears me thin, listening to dh taking crap on the phone of "woe is me, woe is me"...even on my birthday the woman cannot help herself!

I'm nc and propose to keep it that way but unfortunetly dh isn't quite there yet so from time to time i hear him get the phonecalls etc and i just think "tell her to shut up", but he just nods and listens. The family are a nightmare

Patches she knows why I was out of the house lots and seems to think it was a good solution.

She makes every conversation about her feelings and / or my dads. Never mine.

hello, I've been directed here after writing the op of this thread - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1654158-to-return-this-letter-to-sender-unread
I'm feeling very lost and confused atm.

Hi Cheddar! I was following your thread and was hoping you'd come over here. Sometimes people on AIBU don't really understand what it's like to deal with toxic parents! xx

Hi Cheddar, I've read your other thread. You sound like a great Mum who 's doing fantastically at NOT turning into your Mum. I thought it was interesting that the responses you got were unanimous that she's in the wrong.. It's an eye opener that those 'on the outside' just think her sort of behaviour is bonkers. Normal healthy people do not behave like this!

You'll get lots of support here. Welcome!

Another email from my parents with 2 approaches - first section from mum pleading with me & feeling sorry for herself. Second section from dad ranting & raving & telling me off because he paid my rent when I was at Uni & gave me £500 to go to USA on work placement (which I then blew on a car apparently!!) Actually I used it to live on & pay rent until I got my first month's wages! Money was always forthcoming but anyway - why would I want to visit anyone who is telling me off for having feeling even now?!!

Welcome Cheddar! Glad you made it!

I think you have a good thread on AIBU, no eejits urging you to try harder, be a better person etc, as can often happen there!

Here you won't need to explain yourself, you can just share thoughts, ask questions and test theories as they come to you. We'll all do our best to offer perspctives and suggestions as to how to navigate all this mess.

Midwife, your parents are just laughable really, aren't they? :D

Smile and wave boys, smile and wave! (watched the end of Madagascar this morning!) :)

Midwife-Funny how they bring up your past 'mistakes' (all fabrication!) yet they continue to make mistakes as old people!

Cheddar-I read your thread and i'm with you, in that you shouldn't read whats in the letter or send it back.
Don't give her anymore power, ignore all her poison.

Hi cheddar - I read most of your other thread - what did you do with the letter in the end? I'm dying to know what vitriol she wrote but of course hope that you just sent it back unopened. How very dare she send you a letter but refuse to allow you to reply to the bollocks content!!

Yes I'm just dying to go visit them - mother grabbing at me & sobbing "but we love you" & father angry & saying "we didn't do anything wrong - you are ungrateful & selfish". I guess I'm being passive aggressive like cheddar's mother by refusing to discuss my "accusations" with them but I just replied "I'm sorry that you don't understand how I feel". I really don't know what they want from me!

Hi all. My dad has just announced that he is getting married. Again. Third time lucky, I guess.

Feel shitty. Another sign of how little he cares for us. And how weird he is...another rather older woman he has known for only a few months, like his second marriage.

Plus bad medical news makes for a bad day. Feel pretty low.

I was a little breezy and amused by the marriage news at first, but should have known it would truly affect me.

Am trying my CBT techniques, but having trouble figuring out what Im feeling/thinking.

Hello all.

I used to post here last year.

My New Years resolution was to try and lay a few ghosts to rest in relation to my parents behaviour. However, I am struggling.

Just got off the phone from my mother, she called me whilst I am at a soft play with my DC's. All it takes is just one call from her to totally ruin my day.

I can't go no contact, as the fall out would be catastrophic. So how do I make myself immune to her behaviour? How do I stop it from hurting?

I am sick that she gets to play the child in our relationship. Sick that she doesn't have to take responsibility for what she says or what she does. Sick that she decides what being a good mother/grandparent is. And so sick of her never, ever taking my feelings into account and expecting me to just take everything. She has never, ever put me first.

Hi Midnight. Sorry you're struggling; you're very clear about what's happening for you. Can you say more about why the fallout from NC would be catastrophic? We're taught very young that questioning the central lie (that their needs must come before everyone else's) will result in some unspecified disaster. It's this threat that keeps us in line, for years.

If you did go NC, it would undoubtedly be painful. But it is survivable. Only you know when you've reached the tipping point.

Cheddar I am so glad you have posted here after reading through your Aibu. Feel free to post away, as a pp has already said we all tend to pop in and out as and when required.

It just occurred to me that I did actually go NC for a while 14 years ago because I wanted to do something my parents didn't want me to. I wish I was strong enough to do it now.

Midnight I feel things would be close to catastrophic if I went NC too, but am wondering if short term pain would equal long term gain iyswim.

Can I ask about the NC fallout being catastrophic? I understand it, because we have been there and we're still dealing with the fallout from our decision. But you will only be exposed to any fallout if you pick up the phone/answer the door/open emails/open mail. It's difficult to even think in this way but necessary if you're even considering NC.

Midnight, the fear you feel is a CHILD'S fear, it's not real, it's irrational.

We all know what it feels like, but she has no right to hold your life to ransom.

Take a break.

You were at Hell on Earth SoftPlay, you could have let that go to voicemail, and IFyou felt like calling her, then you have to accept and understand that she WILL upset you.

No-one has that right.

Stop taking calls - rename her contact to DO NOT ANSWER. Call her back when you have 5 mins and say that you can't be long etc etc and ring off as soon as you can, or as soon as you hear her start up. Bloody mobile networks are SO unreliable sometimes...