To those who've been in abusive relationships - when did the abuse start?

[russianreubles]

Just read the post at this site: www.kveller.com/blog/parenting/a-letter-to-my-daughter-about-fighting-back/

I'm not 100% clear about the time scales in her relationship but it sounds like a nice man turned abusive almost overnight and after 2 years or possibly longer.

I've always thought that men who are abusive by nature can hide this pretty much completely but only for a limited amount of time. Is this story unusual? To all the women out there unfortunate enough to have been in an abusive relationship, for how long was the relationship non-abusive to begin with? Is there any way of not picking an abusive man?

I am early thirties and still single but want a family so will not have years and years to get to know someone. Is there any way to "screen" for someone who will become abusive?

The 'red flags' threads on here will help you know what to look for. I have been married twice, both times to abusive men (1st was physically, 2nd was emotionally, financially and sexually). Both times it took about four years for their true nature to reveal itself. I am ashamed to say that it took me several years after that realisation before I ended either relationship.

It's not so much when it starts as how it starts. A lot of abusive behaviour is simply an extreme form of a normal behaviour. For example... it can be very flattering if your new boyfriend is uncomfortable when someone else pays you attention but if the jealousy escalates such that he stops you going out, follows you about, snoops through your e-mails and bans you from talking to any other man ever again... then it's abusive. How long it takes to go from one to the other is variable. Tolerate/excuse/defend the small stuff.... he's only jealous because he loves me so much ... and an abusive man will see that as a green light.

I found this article recently entitled Are You Dating An Abuser which speaks about early warning signs to be alert to. Worth a read.

Mine was immediately, the first date FFS.

I was young and in awe that this older man would want to date me. I didn't spot it. When I did it was too late. I was trapped.

Sometimes they make it look like they live you and are protecting you. Their jealousy is because they love you too much

I just wish I had mumsnet (I found it as I was leaving)

It would have saved me a lot of pain (physically and emotionally)

My ex started 'pushing boundaries' aka testing the water about 3-4 months in. Most recent ex was verbally abusive, he started that around the same time he realised I wasn't going to be a doe-eyed little yes woman, again a couple of months in.

You can't prevent yourself from meeting abusive people, but with self-esteem and boundaries in place, you're less likely to stick around and tolerate it. It's also worth noting the amber/red flags of a relationship, if you have a look on the Baggage Reclaim website, you'll find it there

I should add that I have actually been in an abusive relationship (EA) myself as a teenager but was lucky that the abuse started very early on. It was very short lived but very painful. I always thought that I had learned a lot about picking men from that and all of my boyfriends since then have been wonderful people - but I haven't gone out with any for more than 18 months.

I reckon I'm pretty good with red flags and have avoided some bad relationships by bailing out at the first sign of cruel behaviour but what if there are no red flags until several years in?

"what if there are no red flags until several years in?"

That's why you should never be 100% reliant on a man, financially or otherwise, as it turns an emotional trap into something far more difficult to escape. As with everything else in life, hope for the best but plan for the worst.

Cogito - wish I'd read that 20 years ago. My ex was charming and lovely on the outside. Other people had no idea what he was like in private.

Now he blames me for everything that has gone wrong in his life. A 'blamer'. Wow.

12 years into the relationship, when I got pregnant.

Umm, small indications from early on, it was emotional so over a long period, drip drip, it started to secalate after 3 years, and got bad after six years, it was much worse after seperation and he was the one that left. I thought about leaving 18 months before and he stopped what he was doing and went back to tollerable.

I have heard that a stressful event like having a child or a bereavement shows the true nature of people and that the former can be a big trigger as the abuser has to share the attention of his partner.

That's good advice, Cogito. I have a health condition though that makes it hard for me to earn much money so it's always a bit scary thinking about the future - if I have kids they will probably not have a financially comfortable upbringing with just me.

That article is a good one - I'd never have thought of sarcasm as a warning sign although it looks like it is only one in certain circumstances.

Really Hysterical, 12 years?! That's so scary - I feel for you. But are these men hiding an abusive nature or does something turn them abusive?

To everyone, how did they treat and talk about others in the non-abusive phase? In particular, how did they talk about exes?

My ex barley spoke about what the issue was with those he hated, the full extent of what he did other than sit and wait like a snake in the grass. He spoke little about ex's. Mostly he behaved like a gentleman in front of people at every stage.

Some abusers do seem to change suddenly, often at specific trigger points e.g. after marriage, during pregnancy or after a baby is born.

But I don't think it's usually the case that they're perfect and then, bam, they're not. There will have been warning signs and red flags, but these are all too easily ignored (because the person is otherwise "perfect", because the red flags seem trivial, because of gaslighting, etc).

My ex was abusive from the start. But it took me years to really see it for what it was.

I wish I'd read that article 30 years ago DeckSwabber.! :) My ex was also a 'blamer', resentful, entitled, petty, deceitful.... Came from a very privileged background and thought the only reason he wasn't CEO of something by age 25 was because everyone had it in for him. (Not because he was a talentless, pisshead, tosser of course... no...)

My 2nd ex was on good terms with his exW, when we first met he was still meeting up with her periodically. They didn't have children together, but he did with me and it was then things changed, so maybe that's why they stayed amicable and he didn't get abusive with her, possibly.

In my case two things were triggers, lowered sex drive in me and then my illhealth. The gaslighting was from early on when I look back, my condition made it easy to gaslight me as I have memory issues, thing is my memory is correct it is recall speed so I knew just due to low selfesteem and people knocking my innervoice\little professor I didn't trust my gut instincts.

"But are these men hiding an abusive nature or does something turn them abusive?"

I don't think some of them are abusive by nature, that's the trouble. What they are is naturally selfish, childish, petty, spoilt, spiteful, inadequate etc... and they have learned, growing up, that the way to feel superior or to get their own way is to be aggressive or manipulative or deceitful. They can't raise themselves up and they can't bring authority figures down so they pick on those nearest or who they perceive to be weak. Bullies.

Women do this as well, of course. We've all met the bitchy 'queen bee' types that are nice to your face and calling you all ways up when you're out of ear-shot. Friends one minute and enemies the next.

The day after I came home after having DS by EMCS. Full on screaming at me that I was a shit mum, loads of abuse and refusing to help.

"To everyone, how did they treat and talk about others in the non-abusive phase? In particular, how did they talk about exes?"

My ex divided the world into heroes and villains. Positively obsequious with the heroes who could do no wrong, and took every opportunity to suck up to anyone he thought was influential. The villains (who were out to get him) would be bitched & whined about in private at length and usually over large amounts of scotch. His ex was one of those villains and that bit in the article about "You're so smart, sensitive, caring, and loving, not like that bitch I used to go out with." could have been copied out verbatim. And I fell for it (but I was young and stupid)....

I didn't get too much of the raised voice stuff.

Once I got called away during a party and he put a hole through the garage door with his fist whilst calmly telling me to get rid of overstaying guests. He looked the gentleman and I was the anxious person getting rid of them.

He wouldn't take a tea mug to the kitchen, then when we had guests he would be ever so helpfull, or state "we" did this, "we" did that, when it had been me that did the things.

I think it's worth looking carefully at yourself and your own reactions to and feelings about the relationship. A genuinely good, kind partner will make you feel good about yourself, will make you feel safe and comfortable and supported. If at any point you're questioning yourself, wondering how to be "better," wondering what you might have done wrong (because he's not happy with you for some reason), feeling afraid, uneasy, put down, lonely, disrespected or any other negative thing then that's a huge red flag. Of course even good relationships hit bumps but IMO while it's normal to feel annoyed, a bit angry, frustrated etc, it is not normal or right to feel downtrodden or genuinely bad about yourself. Examining how you feel in the relationship will help you to identify abusers and it will also help to identify the ones that are not abusive but who just aren't right for you. A relationship should make your life better, more fun, more interesting, just nicer all round. You are not there to make another person happy, you are not required to change yourself in order to be a "better" partner, you have every right to expect someone to love you just as you are.

I think if you work on your own self esteem, and go into a relationship with high expectations, knowing what you want, you won't go far wrong. Any relationship can go bad but if you start as you mean to go on the chances of a good relationship are higher I think.

The thing I didn't recognise which I could have seen at a much earlier stage if I was looking was that he never took responsibility for his actions or things that happened. Everything was someone else's fault.

The red flags were there from the start I was just too naive to notice them.

Jealousy which he explained away as being because he was so in love with me and his previous ex had left him for his best friend so he felt insecure (lies as it turns out)
Very intense very quickly (suggesting marriage after only 3 weeks in )
Gradual isolation from my friends
Constantly phoning if I was on a night out using some flimsy excuse.
Causing arguments if I was due to go out, putting a damper on the night
Questioning when I come home. who did I see, did anyone flirt with me etc etc
Critical of my clothes if he felt there were in any way revealing (they weren't)
Road rage

It became much much worse after I had our first DC (which he had pushed and pushed for and then took no interest in once he was born). He didn't want him, he just wanted me trapped.
Constant put downs and criticism, called me fat,ugly, told me no man would look at me again.Absolutely battered my self esteem.
Going out drinking when he was supposed to be minding dc when I was due to work. Often walking out 15 minutes before I was due to leave for work, leaving me high and dry (he later admitted that he wanted me to lose my job so I would be stuck at home)
Racking up debts on stupid cars/sound equipment and buying rounds of drinks for all his friends in the pub so he was 'the big man'
Unable to control his drinking, he had no off switch and would get more and more drunk, then become aggressive.
Once raised his fist to me. I told him to go ahead and hit me, but not to dare to ever fall asleep in our house again...

It took me 4 years after my dc was born to finally throw him out when he started to EA my kids.

I was only 21 he was 34 but the day he said, I don't think we need anyone else but each other should have been a red flag, but I so was naive...then when he said children should be seen and not heard bollocks, my son was 1.5 his daughter was 11 and got whatever she wanted...I could carry on, one day I will, one day I will write it all down. We are still together now, almost 13 years married, I am so so unhappy.

so sorry topknob. Is the end in sight?